It looks kind of like a cheese grater.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61LtStB3MUL._SY450_.jpg
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61LtStB3MUL._SY450_.jpg
I too am concerned about airflow and thermal performance with the new hole grid pattern. The unrestricted airflow was quite a big thing to give up when I switched to the current vent pattern, but I guess I'll never really know how it does until I get the case made and actually have some hardware running inside it.
What do you think, maybe bigger holes? I'm afraid that might make the case look more like a cheese grater like Sean said.
Thanks, honestly I'm quite surprised with how many people like the old Voronoi vent pattern. It looked a bit too edgy for me. And yeah, the safety barrier is a big reason why I changed to the current circle grid pattern. While the Voronoi pattern allows you to show off your hardware and provides unrestricted airflow, I didn't want someone at a LAN meet to be able to stick their fingers inside the computer and unplug a SATA cable or something.
Ah, they looked sharp because of the bottom corner of the side panels. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I have them rounded off now.
I hope you hate money, because getting that vent pattern cut by Protocase will not be cheap
I accepted this endeavor as something that would not be cheap. Currently they have me quoted at <$300 for the Voronoi model, which isn't bad at all. Hopefully they show me mercy with the updated hole grid model. Nonetheless, I'm not going to let anything stop me from having my ideas become a reality. I never did. I never will.
Since so many people are requesting this, I've decided to resume tinkering with the inverted layout again. I'll post if anything good comes out of it.
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Im liking the design as it is, maybe even an optional simple carryhandle up top. The IO at the top is good in my opinion, better than having them on the side atleast. USB-C powered monitors are starting to crawl into the market and one can always use a wireless mouse & keyboard combo with a small usb adapter for a very clean cable output.The GFX mounting bracket is a bit of an eyesore up top, maybe make the panels longer up top to hide it and the connectors a bit?
I have a thing for these "monolithic" and cylindrical designs ala Mac Pro & Silverstone FT03 & mini etc.
Yours is just the perfect size for moving around if needed but still houses "proper" hardware. A fan at the bottom would be a nice thing for cooling but might be hard to implement.
Thumbs up.
I have a thing for these "monolithic" and cylindrical designs ala Mac Pro & Silverstone FT03 & mini etc.
Yours is just the perfect size for moving around if needed but still houses "proper" hardware. A fan at the bottom would be a nice thing for cooling but might be hard to implement.
Thumbs up.
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Thanks! You understand me and why I like having the I/O at the top.
I too have a thing for monolithic designs. It's something I was trying to do with the look of this case. There's just something inherently sexy about a single, simple, solid form with no interruptions in its silhouette.
I agree on the point of the PCI-E retention bracket on top. I'm not a big fan of it either but I kept it as it is since the flange of the graphics card's PCI-E bracket would stick out the same amount and it would be dwarfed by the connectors of the display cables attached to the graphics card I/O anyways.
As for extending the side panels upwards for concealing the connectors & PCI-E retention bracket and to readdress the suggestion for a recessed area -- perhaps the thing I am most touchy about with the design of this case is the volume. I simply do not want to make it any bigger; so I'm not as receptive to suggestions that would increase the dimensions of the case. Right now, how I have the case structure set up is that the top face and side faces are all one piece that constitutes the main frame. It's simple and strong. If I were to extend the 4 walls of the case upwards, then the main frame would have to be broken into 3 parts. Resulting from that, the case would lose some structural strength and I'd have to find a way to rivet the top panel to the sides. With currently only two exposed rivets in the design, I'd prefer to keep the number of exposed rivets down to a minimum.
For the fan suggestion, I've also been wanting a fan at the bottom. I thought it would be impossible until now. But whaddaya know; it's definitely doable! Checking the model again, I can actually fit a fan down here, at the intersection of the graphics card and SSD cluster.
It would be a mere 35mm fan, but it should be sufficient to cycle in numerous times the volume of the case in fresh air every minute and prevent hot air from stagnating within the case.
Is it worth doing? Let me know.
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Small content dump to begin the day.
First off, I'd like to address all the "flip it" and "have the cables come out the bottom" suggestions.
Since so many people suggested it, I guess it deserves priority in this post.
As promised, I did take a second look at the original inverted model I made halfway through the design process of the case. As I spent time with it, I was quickly reminded of why I abandoned that idea in the first place. Accessibility.
That is wholly why I opted for the current I/O-at-the-top design.
Having the cables come out the bottom seems like a good idea at inception, for the obvious cleanliness reasons. However, in actual use, it would be a rather poor design choice.
Imagine having to tip your case over every time you want to plug in a flash drive. Imagine having to tip it back over again just to remove the flash drive. Then repeat the process every time you want to plug/unplug your headphones, microphone, maybe your mouse, etc. One might say "oh, just buy a USB hub or something to solve that". I'm not Apple. I don't advocate making people buy dongles just to use their device. "Oh but I already have a USB hub. It's awes-" That's great. I don't.
Having the I/O at the top is just what makes more logical sense. All of the I/O is readily accessible to you no matter which side of the case you have facing you. No tipping-over BS. No worries for cable connector or flash drive clearance. The case is small and easy to use.
Having the I/O at the bottom of the case also requires me to shift the PSU to the top of the case. With PSUs typically being one of the rather heavier parts of a computer, that also brings concerns about the case's center of gravity.
The case has a small footprint. Proportionally, the case is rather tall. Combine those two things with a high center of gravity and it becomes easy to make the case tip and fall over. Oh no, my hard drive!
Believe me, I wanted the inverted layout to work too; but having the I/O at the top was the optimal decision.
New Changes
- added 35mm fan mount to bottom tray (now removed)
- added another set of holes for alternative 3.5" drive mounting (more secure)
Currently Pending
Vent design
Spaghettini or spaghettoni?
Holes are 3mm vs 4mm.
Might also experiment with slots. I wonder what pasta that would be.
First off, I'd like to address all the "flip it" and "have the cables come out the bottom" suggestions.
Since so many people suggested it, I guess it deserves priority in this post.
As promised, I did take a second look at the original inverted model I made halfway through the design process of the case. As I spent time with it, I was quickly reminded of why I abandoned that idea in the first place. Accessibility.
That is wholly why I opted for the current I/O-at-the-top design.
Having the cables come out the bottom seems like a good idea at inception, for the obvious cleanliness reasons. However, in actual use, it would be a rather poor design choice.
Imagine having to tip your case over every time you want to plug in a flash drive. Imagine having to tip it back over again just to remove the flash drive. Then repeat the process every time you want to plug/unplug your headphones, microphone, maybe your mouse, etc. One might say "oh, just buy a USB hub or something to solve that". I'm not Apple. I don't advocate making people buy dongles just to use their device. "Oh but I already have a USB hub. It's awes-" That's great. I don't.
Having the I/O at the top is just what makes more logical sense. All of the I/O is readily accessible to you no matter which side of the case you have facing you. No tipping-over BS. No worries for cable connector or flash drive clearance. The case is small and easy to use.
Having the I/O at the bottom of the case also requires me to shift the PSU to the top of the case. With PSUs typically being one of the rather heavier parts of a computer, that also brings concerns about the case's center of gravity.
The case has a small footprint. Proportionally, the case is rather tall. Combine those two things with a high center of gravity and it becomes easy to make the case tip and fall over. Oh no, my hard drive!
Believe me, I wanted the inverted layout to work too; but having the I/O at the top was the optimal decision.
New Changes
- added 35mm fan mount to bottom tray (now removed)
- added another set of holes for alternative 3.5" drive mounting (more secure)
Currently Pending
Vent design
Spaghettini or spaghettoni?
Holes are 3mm vs 4mm.
Might also experiment with slots. I wonder what pasta that would be.
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Love to see you sticking with the I/O at the top as well as your very well-thought out reasoning behind it - I'm a fan!
Personally, I say the 3mm looks a lot better due to the 4mm holes making it look more like a cheese grater than the former. Looking good! Oh, I'd like to know, however: Have you experimented with different patterns other than holes? I can't wait to put cheese all over my spaghetti. Haha! But, seriously speaking, I'm afraid of the small holes not providing enough air flow as is, not that I know how does that work anyways.
On another note, are the feet wide enough to have a small piece of rubber sticked to it? That'd be sick.
Personally, I say the 3mm looks a lot better due to the 4mm holes making it look more like a cheese grater than the former. Looking good! Oh, I'd like to know, however: Have you experimented with different patterns other than holes? I can't wait to put cheese all over my spaghetti. Haha! But, seriously speaking, I'm afraid of the small holes not providing enough air flow as is, not that I know how does that work anyways.
On another note, are the feet wide enough to have a small piece of rubber sticked to it? That'd be sick.
I'm curious, did you make tests regarding GPU thermal performance for GPUs with straight heatpipes?
Most long GPUs nowadays (MSI and reference being the exception) seem to have straight heatpipes going down the length of the card.
When the card is oriented with the IO on top, the cool end of the heatpipe is facing down, so the capillary action has to work against gravity.
A paper I read a while ago (link to the paper) concluded that mesh and groove heatpipes suffer from considerable performance degradation when used against gravity. Considering GPUs usually are assumed to be working in a position resulting a 0° inclination heatpipe I somehow doubt manufacturers would take -90° oriented GPUs into consideration from a thermal perspective, especially considering the type best working in that uncommon scenario is the most expensive to manufacture and is less powerful in the usual orientation.
Most long GPUs nowadays (MSI and reference being the exception) seem to have straight heatpipes going down the length of the card.
When the card is oriented with the IO on top, the cool end of the heatpipe is facing down, so the capillary action has to work against gravity.
A paper I read a while ago (link to the paper) concluded that mesh and groove heatpipes suffer from considerable performance degradation when used against gravity. Considering GPUs usually are assumed to be working in a position resulting a 0° inclination heatpipe I somehow doubt manufacturers would take -90° oriented GPUs into consideration from a thermal perspective, especially considering the type best working in that uncommon scenario is the most expensive to manufacture and is less powerful in the usual orientation.
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Thanks for bringing this up, it's something I mostly forgot about. Really, I appreciate it. I love the technicality of things.
I always just assumed from my intuition that the whole property of convection with heat going up would prove advantageous for all air-cooled graphics cards if they were turned 90° with their bracket facing up (with emphasis on blower style cards). I thought this was just something that was agreed upon by all computer hardware enthusiasts. I mean, if case manufacturers like Silverstone and Cryorig are making cases with vertical layouts, then why should I be afraid to do the same?
But your research has me in a panic, seeing the opposite. (again, thanks for this)
I happen to have a long-ass card with straight heatpipes spanning its length (Gigabyte G1 Gaming GTX 970). So I will do these tests myself.
I performed this by flipping my Corsair 300R onto its face for the vertical tests.
Here are my results:
Idle Horizonal
Idle Vertical
Furmark Test
(ran stress test for 9 minutes horizontal, cooldown to idle temp, flipped case, then ran for 9 minutes vertical)
Why 9 minutes? I was listening to a song that was 9 minutes long, so I used the song to time it.
Load Horizontal
Load Vertical
Overwatch Test
(played a full game horizontal, cooldown to idle temp, flipped case, played a full game vertical)
Load Horizontal
Load Vertical
So in conclusion, with only a 1 degree difference between the two orientations, I don't think there's anything to be afraid of.
You're too kind.
Thanks for the feedback. I agree on the 3mm holes looking better, and yes, I'm worried about them too. It's not the airflow that worries me the most though. It's the cost. I got the quote back from Protocase for the updated hole grid design and they priced the job at $1600 lmao. They showed me no mercy.
So yeah, idunno; either I save up more or I find a new company to make this thing, which I've already begun doing. Poking around for a company with a CNC punch machine got me a machine shop who then forwarded me to another machine shop that's located here in Texas, so hopefully that goes well.
Yes, rubber feet is something I want to add, so I'm trying to source little rubber cube-shaped bits with adhesive on two adjacent sides that allow themselves to be stuck into the inner corner of the feet so that they remain hidden. If I can't find anything like that, then I'll probably just end up making them myself, which isn't a problem.
As for experimenting with other vent patterns, yes, that's what I'm doing right now. My next content dump will probably be a whole host of different vent patterns that I'll want feedback on.
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Yup, Protocase just can't do vent patterns like that affordably.
Punching is cheaper, but it still isn't cheap. The reason you see patterns like that so often on mass-produced cases is they're stamped, so the entire pattern can be punched in one go. But a punching machine has to punch each hole one by one, though it's still much faster than laser or water jet cutting them.
I'm surprised there isn't a punch that can do a grid of holes (4x4, 10x10, or other amount) at once. It would seem like regular hole patterns would be a somewhat often request...
They're called cluster tools: https://www.wilsontool.com/Product-Catalog/Punching/Thick-Turret/Special/Cluster-Tool
But I asked about them for Cerberus and was told that they're not cost effective except for fairly large runs of extensive vent patterns.
But I asked about them for Cerberus and was told that they're not cost effective except for fairly large runs of extensive vent patterns.
I think the size of the holes are fine.
Just test it with water...you have alot of them, and it all comes down to surface area anyways.
See how fast you can evacuate 1 gallon of water through the chassis.
But seriously it looks fine.
Just test it with water...you have alot of them, and it all comes down to surface area anyways.
See how fast you can evacuate 1 gallon of water through the chassis.
But seriously it looks fine.
As a rule of thumb, without having to do any CFD simulations:
- The larger the percentage of area that is open vs blocked, the more air will flow. Take an arbitrary square of your vent pattern (e.g. 100mmx100mm), count the number of holes in there, measure of the area of a hole, multiple that by the number of holes, and divide by the total area.
- The less 'edge' in a vent, the more air will flow, for the same percentage of open area. Basically fewer bigger holes > more smaller holes. This is because air flowing over an edge will become turbulent, and that requires energy, which means there is energy being wasted on mixing that air that could otherwise be used moving air through the case.
- Area not near a fan is mostly wasted. A single big hole over a fan opening will be less restrictive than a lot of small holes spread over the whole panel.
This has to be balanced against aesthetics. For circular holes: a fixed pattern of holes will flow more with close spaced holes than sparsely spaced ones. A fixed hole pattern will flow better with larger holes than small ones. An offset pattern ('triangle' rather than 'square' spacing) will be more efficient, but loses the Braun aesthetic.
Using large holes with a very dense spacing may overcome the 'cheesegrater effect' (which have fairly sparse spacing), but is more difficult to manufacture without defects as the ribs between holes become thinner. A problem for stamping and punching, but less so for laser/waterjet/plasma cutting (which remain expensive though).
- The larger the percentage of area that is open vs blocked, the more air will flow. Take an arbitrary square of your vent pattern (e.g. 100mmx100mm), count the number of holes in there, measure of the area of a hole, multiple that by the number of holes, and divide by the total area.
- The less 'edge' in a vent, the more air will flow, for the same percentage of open area. Basically fewer bigger holes > more smaller holes. This is because air flowing over an edge will become turbulent, and that requires energy, which means there is energy being wasted on mixing that air that could otherwise be used moving air through the case.
- Area not near a fan is mostly wasted. A single big hole over a fan opening will be less restrictive than a lot of small holes spread over the whole panel.
This has to be balanced against aesthetics. For circular holes: a fixed pattern of holes will flow more with close spaced holes than sparsely spaced ones. A fixed hole pattern will flow better with larger holes than small ones. An offset pattern ('triangle' rather than 'square' spacing) will be more efficient, but loses the Braun aesthetic.
Using large holes with a very dense spacing may overcome the 'cheesegrater effect' (which have fairly sparse spacing), but is more difficult to manufacture without defects as the ribs between holes become thinner. A problem for stamping and punching, but less so for laser/waterjet/plasma cutting (which remain expensive though).
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Oh as an FYI a water jet needs lead ins for stuff this small, so I wouldn't consider it for small holes like that. Obviously plasma is out too.
Good evening. Content dump time.
It's my birthday today, so I think it's only appropriate to celebrate with a little party — and you're invited.
I have some guests you might like to meet.
Some are old friends. Most are new. Welcome to the main (e)vent.
The Grids
From left to right:
- 3mm holes "Braun"
- 4mm holes
- 6mm holes
- 6mm holes spaced "polka dot"
- 3mm squares
- 6mm squares
The Rectilinears
From left to right:
- Large rectangles
- Medium rectangles
- Bars
- Asymmetrical 1
- Asymmetrical 2
The Slots
From left to right:
- Horizontal slots
- Long vertical slots
- Vertical slots
- Staggered rectangular slots
- Staggered rounded slots
The Architecturals
From left to right:
- Bird's Nest
- Voronoi
Care to tell me who were some of the best dressed? Who were the worst dressed?
But yeah, here are all the vent patterns I was able to work on over the past few days.
My personal favorites are the Braun, bird's nest, staggered rounded slots, and polka dot patterns.
The bird's nest design is quite notable since it's more tightly-knit and stronger than the old Voronoi model, retains about the same amount of airflow, should cost about the same to make, and (in my opinion) looks better than the Voronoi design.
I think I'll still be going with the Braun for my personal rig (if I can get it made at a reasonable enough price). If not, then the bird's nest is my next go-to.
The purpose of this is just to get an idea of which vent patterns may be preferred for a production model. Let me know what you think.
It's my birthday today, so I think it's only appropriate to celebrate with a little party — and you're invited.
I have some guests you might like to meet.
Some are old friends. Most are new. Welcome to the main (e)vent.
The Grids
From left to right:
- 3mm holes "Braun"
- 4mm holes
- 6mm holes
- 6mm holes spaced "polka dot"
- 3mm squares
- 6mm squares
The Rectilinears
From left to right:
- Large rectangles
- Medium rectangles
- Bars
- Asymmetrical 1
- Asymmetrical 2
The Slots
From left to right:
- Horizontal slots
- Long vertical slots
- Vertical slots
- Staggered rectangular slots
- Staggered rounded slots
The Architecturals
From left to right:
- Bird's Nest
- Voronoi
Care to tell me who were some of the best dressed? Who were the worst dressed?
But yeah, here are all the vent patterns I was able to work on over the past few days.
My personal favorites are the Braun, bird's nest, staggered rounded slots, and polka dot patterns.
The bird's nest design is quite notable since it's more tightly-knit and stronger than the old Voronoi model, retains about the same amount of airflow, should cost about the same to make, and (in my opinion) looks better than the Voronoi design.
I think I'll still be going with the Braun for my personal rig (if I can get it made at a reasonable enough price). If not, then the bird's nest is my next go-to.
The purpose of this is just to get an idea of which vent patterns may be preferred for a production model. Let me know what you think.
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