Completed DSE Breathe - A 7.3L Vertical Format ITX Tower

[gunpalcyril]

@DSE, I have a question about a small design change, don't know if its possible at all, just curious.

As pointed out in this picture, there is a bit of flex on the larger side walls in the midsection. I grab and pick up my pc a lot, and find myself pushing into the mid-section of the larger walls a-lot during packing.


Is there any chance of introducing some sort of back flange or a small tab extension from the smaller folded side walls that can act as support to help with flex in the mid-section? Just throwing out ideas for V2

 

[DSE]

@DSE, I have a question about a small design change, don't know if its possible at all, just curious.

As pointed out in this picture, there is a bit of flex on the larger side walls in the midsection. I grab and pick up my pc a lot, and find myself pushing into the mid-section of the larger walls a-lot during packing.


Is there any chance of introducing some sort of back flange or a small tab extension from the smaller folded side walls that can act as support to help with flex in the mid-section? Just throwing out ideas for V2

Yes, this bothered me too. The new wraparound side panels I'll reveal soon will mitigate this inward flex. (since the larger panels will be conjoined to the bend in the smaller side walls, forcing the panel to stay rigid and resist flex)

 

[DKsystem]

Totally agreed with @gunpalcyril
Also "in case" you cram the cables the panel bulges outside as well.
Not a big deal, just my aesthetical obsession.
Maybe you can make the wider panels as c shaped ones with feet, regarding the common way you grab your case.
Qurious what your solution is, @DSE

 

[gunpalcyril]

@DSE, oooh nice, I thought that wraparound feature would come later, can't wait to see the new update.

I'm not familiar at all with case design fidelity vs production costs, but I imagine the current design allows for a simple exterior look, as well as keeping the costs down?

Also, I know we talked about a top cover, but I've grown to really like the exposed IO on the top, aesthetically and functionally. Haha.

 

[renecop545]

Leaving this here if you want some inspiration for top cover designs

 

[veganzombiez]

Sweet, this is the case I've been looking for: Dan-case size + vertical. If you're able to get a good top hat, I'd def be interested in picking up one in red. Maybe black too.

 

[Philairflow]

Leaving this here if you want some inspiration for top cover designs

I have to agree. A tophat would be nice. I also like the case in the pictures you posted. Can you please give some more information or send me a link @renecop545

 

[tinyitx]

The above case is Sunmilo 's Steel Forest.

Link here:-
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a312a.7700824.w4004-9691348923.2.4e44e389mga5s4&id=562624615760

 

[Philairflow]

Thanky you!

 

[DSE]

@DSE, oooh nice, I thought that wraparound feature would come later, can't wait to see the new update.

I'm not familiar at all with case design fidelity vs production costs, but I imagine the current design allows for a simple exterior look, as well as keeping the costs down?

Also, I know we talked about a top cover, but I've grown to really like the exposed IO on the top, aesthetically and functionally. Haha.

Yep, you are correct. I'm glad you came around to liking it as I do.

Leaving this here if you want some inspiration for top cover designs

I've seen this case before, and yeah it has served as inspiration for some of my ideas for the top cover.

Just hear me out here, this isn't directed at you, rather more at everyone wanting the top cover.

There are three compromises that I think about when sketching out ideas for the top cover:
Size vs. Portability
Simplicity vs. Cost
Usability vs. Aesthetics

In the size versus portability compromise with the top cover, it's simple: Do I want to add another ~1.5 inches to the top of the case just to hide cables but sacrifice easy transportation of the case? Currently, the case (prototype and version 2) are at a great size to fit in any backpack or carry on bag. This aspect of the case is important to me. If I were to add the minimum addition of 38mm of height to the case to conceal plugged in cables, then the case would near 14.5 inches tall. Transporting and shipping something like that isn't as easy. That's a size that starts to become pretty awkward to move around. That 38mm of extra height is only useful when the case and PC are actively being used on your desk. In transport, that extra 38mm just turns into unneeded and unwanted bulk. It also makes the case look like this. Silly right? It's less of an ITX tower and more of a desktop skyscraper. Sunmilo's Steel Forest case can work its extra height since its wider and thicker body allows it to pull off taller proportions. My case is too skinny and slim for that.

So there must be a solution to this, right? Yes, there is. Make the top cover removable, so that I can have the shorter, open top case that I want; and people who want a top cover can have their cover-topped case. But it's not that simple; which brings me to the next compromise.

Simplicity versus cost. I really like to design things to be as simple as possible. It keeps costs reasonable and it makes working on the design non-tedious. So when it comes to the top cover, I can design it in two ways:
1) To be integrated (non-removable) with the walls of the case, which is relatively simple and less costly.
or
2) To be a removable top cover, which entails complexity — more unique parts, screws, the use of ball studs and clips, etc. All of which also makes the case more expensive.

Either way, both options make the case more complicated and more expensive. This really irks me. It's like a double no-no. I can't get what I want in either option.

When it comes to usability versus aesthetics, this is something that clashes within my mind. I like things that look nice. But I also like things that are useful. To me, usability is always more important. The top cover will conceal your cables, yeah, but what do you do when you need to plug in a flash drive? Or plug in an abnormally large and stiff cable? These are things I cannot account for within the 38mm of extra height in the top cover's space. So what you'd be forced to do with the top cover is remove it for the duration of your use of that flash drive or cable. I don't like that. The aesthetic top cover becomes a hindrance to usability of your PC.

To me, the cons just outweigh the pros of the top cover. Literally. Like physically and visually as well.

The top cover would also add at least 100 grams to the mass of the case, making it even heavier (think about shipping costs). And it would also upset the visual weight of the case. I like to have the bottom of the case appear heavier than the top. This is partly why the unventilated margin at the base of the case panels is larger than at the top. The top cover would add a solid box with no vent patterns on it to the top of the case, making it look very top heavy. Not my style.

If @gunpalcyril came to liking the openly accessible top of the case, then I'm pretty sure you all will too.

Version 2/batch 2 announcement is coming tomorrow. Think about what color you'd like.

 

[Philairflow]

I understand your points. Stick to your concept. It is unique and will find it's fans. The case that everyone loves doesn't exist anyway.

 

[renecop545]

Yep, you are correct. I'm glad you came around to liking it as I do.


I've seen this case before, and yeah it has served as inspiration for some of my ideas for the top cover.

Just hear me out here, this isn't directed at you, rather more at everyone wanting the top cover.

There are three compromises that I think about when sketching out ideas for the top cover:
Size vs. Portability
Simplicity vs. Cost
Usability vs. Aesthetics

In the size versus portability compromise with the top cover, it's simple: Do I want to add another ~1.5 inches to the top of the case just to hide cables but sacrifice easy transportation of the case? Currently, the case (prototype and version 2) are at a great size to fit in any backpack or carry on bag. This aspect of the case is important to me. If I were to add the minimum addition of 38mm of height to the case to conceal plugged in cables, then the case would near 14.5 inches tall. Transporting and shipping something like that isn't as easy. That's a size that starts to become pretty awkward to move around. That 38mm of extra height is only useful when the case and PC are actively being used on your desk. In transport, that extra 38mm just turns into unneeded and unwanted bulk. It also makes the case look like this. Silly right? It's less of an ITX tower and more of a desktop skyscraper. Sunmilo's Steel Forest case can work its extra height since its wider and thicker body allows it to pull off taller proportions. My case is too skinny and slim for that.

So there must be a solution to this, right? Yes, there is. Make the top cover removable, so that I can have the shorter, open top case that I want; and people who want a top cover can have their cover-topped case. But it's not that simple; which brings me to the next compromise.

Simplicity versus cost. I really like to design things to be as simple as possible. It keeps costs reasonable and it makes working on the design non-tedious. So when it comes to the top cover, I can design it in two ways:
1) To be integrated (non-removable) with the walls of the case, which is relatively simple and less costly.
or
2) To be a removable top cover, which entails complexity — more unique parts, screws, the use of ball studs and clips, etc. All of which also makes the case more expensive.

Either way, both options make the case more complicated and more expensive. This really irks me. It's like a double no-no. I can't get what I want in either option.

When it comes to usability versus aesthetics, this is something that clashes within my mind. I like things that look nice. But I also like things that are useful. To me, usability is always more important. The top cover will conceal your cables, yeah, but what do you do when you need to plug in a flash drive? Or plug in an abnormally large and stiff cable? These are things I cannot account for within the 38mm of extra height in the top cover's space. So what you'd be forced to do with the top cover is remove it for the duration of your use of that flash drive or cable. I don't like that. The aesthetic top cover becomes a hindrance to usability of your PC.

To me, the cons just outweigh the pros of the top cover. Literally. Like physically and visually as well.

The top cover would also add at least 100 grams to the mass of the case, making it even heavier (think about shipping costs). And it would also upset the visual weight of the case. I like to have the bottom of the case appear heavier than the top. This is partly why the unventilated margin at the base of the case panels is larger than at the top. The top cover would add a solid box with no vent patterns on it to the top of the case, making it look very top heavy. Not my style.

If @gunpalcyril came to liking the openly accessible top of the case, then I'm pretty sure you all will too.

Version 2/batch 2 announcement is coming tomorrow. Think about what color you'd like.

Great points overall, and I feel you made a very justified decision regarding the top cover; it would have been a cool thing to have but not absolutely necessary for the case, and given the trade-offs you mentioned I can live without it.

Other improvements I'd like to suggest, which I think would require less compromises, would be ways to easily access/clean the components inside the case:

• reduced amount of screws/toolless construction: The Breathe right now looks very sturdy, but after browsing through all the build logs I realized a large amount of screws are required to hold the case together. Since many people like to mod their cases or upgrade their components often, making it easier for this population disassemble/reassemble would be a popular decision IMO. This could be done via reducing the amount of screws need to assemble the case (e.g. have both the side and front panels be fastened by the same screw via interlocking panels), or in the most optimistic case having a completely toolless construction (this would probably sharply increase the cost of the case unfortunately).
• dust filters: magnetizing corners so that dust filters can be attached would make help keep components clean and prevent overheating/failure through dust build up. This one can be partially alleviated by the above suggestion (making case access easier so that people can clean components more easily), so I'm chalking it up as a nice to have but not necessary.

Not sure if you've already made these improvements for v2. If so, awesome, and if not, please consider them for v3 . Looking forward to the announcement tomorrow!

 

[gunpalcyril]

Oh no, I was hoping the reveal would be today!

Anyway, DSE makes excellent points, I've built in the phanteks shift and ft03 mini, I could honestly do without it, as it would need about 3-5 inches extra just for cable compatibility. My use case is very specific, as my computer moves around with me 3-5 times a week, and the exposed top IO helps with my work immensely for setting up, while its design saves me tons of desk space while having a lot of gpu power.

@renecop545 I don't think dust filters will help with this specific look? The vents are huge, and I've tried putting wire mesh and foam mesh as dust filters, it really made the overall look of the case ugly since you can clearly see it (unless v2 drastically changes in aesthetic design?)

 

[gunpalcyril]

That being said, stick to what you like @DSE, hopefully you will be open to other design critiques in the future as well.

 

[renecop545]

Oh no, I was hoping the reveal would be today!

Anyway, DSE makes excellent points, I've built in the phanteks shift and ft03 mini, I could honestly do without it, as it would need about 3-5 inches extra just for cable compatibility. My use case is very specific, as my computer moves around with me 3-5 times a week, and the exposed top IO helps with my work immensely for setting up, while its design saves me tons of desk space while having a lot of gpu power.

@renecop545 I don't think dust filters will help with this specific look? The vents are huge, and I've tried putting wire mesh and foam mesh as dust filters, it really made the overall look of the case ugly since you can clearly see it (unless v2 drastically changes in aesthetic design?)

Ah really? That's a shame. Got any pictures with dust filters on that you can share?

 

[bkydcmpr]

@DSE I missed your message and the invoice last time due to some unexpected incident, sorry about that. I'm glad you are making v2, I'd take 2 of them and like to pre-order if you are going to do so. My expectations for V2 - really not much, the case is almost perfect for me :-):
- Love to see grid vents, may not only reduce EMI, but also help on the filter and even the flimsy panel issue the others had.
- The memory issue - I bet you had already taken care of it.
- Top cover? good to have but not a must, unless the top cover has shutters would close up when not in use LOL - that would be a DIY project for me, when powered on the shutters open up automatically.

 

[bkydcmpr]

Top cover is really optional, it will block the WIFI antenna, kinda annoying for some people.

 

[gunpalcyril]

Ah really? That's a shame. Got any pictures with dust filters on that you can share?

I didn't bother to take pictures haha, but when I get home I can see what I can do.

 

[DSE]

Version Two

The prototype Breathe was literally a dream come true for me. It worked; but it was far from perfect. Here are all the changes and improvements I've made to the case for version 2 in batch 2.

New dimensions
Length: 183.1mm
Width: 115.1mm
Height: 346.9mm
Volume: 7.31L

Length and width remain unchanged. Height increased by 16mm.
This addition in height was to increase the internal space of the case.
The 16mm of extra height is portioned between 3 areas of the case.
1mm in the top, ~12mm in the middle, and ~3mm at the bottom.

1mm added to the top of the case was used to deal with the motherboard being too close to the I/O cutout, helping fix the issue of I/O shield bulge.

12mm added to the midsection of the case to provide more space between the PSU & 2.5" drive cluster and motherboard, giving a lot more free space for cables. This fixes the issue of power cables interfering with RAM slots and gives enough room for normal straight SATA cables to be used with the 2.5" drives without them being cramped.

3mm added to the bottom space of the case to give greater compatibility for 90 degree IEC C13 power cords for the PSU. I provide a north american power cable included with the case, but it came to my attention in batch 1 that international customers are forced to find a compatible power cable of their own that fits into their country's respective power outlets. This extra space in the bottom should make it easier for international customers to find compatible 90 degree power cords. This was accomplished by making the feet of the case taller, which you can see below.

The prototype Breathe had 28.5mm of space at the bottom. Version 2 will have 31.5mm.

These height changes also increase the maximum compatible graphics card length to 322.1mm, up from 309.1mm in the prototype.

New Wraparound Exterior Panels

Most computer cases only have two side panels that need to be removed in order to access the internal components. So why shouldn't my case do the same?

In hindsight, it didn't make much sense for the prototype to require four exterior panels to be removed in order to gain full access to the components.

So I consolidated the 4 exterior panels into 2 identical wraparound panels.
This makes it so you only need to remove one panel to access components on the motherboard side of the case and the other panel to access components in the GPU side of the case.
This change also reduces the total number of unique parts of the case - making manufacturing simpler, reduces the total screw count, reduces the total PEMsert nut count, and makes the structure of the case even stronger, mitigating the problem of inward/outward flex of the side panels in the prototype.

Ventilation Changes
Vent pattern changed to a staggered, hexagonally oriented hole grid. Gives a greater free area for even better air flow. Holes are 7mm in diameter.

Unventilated margin on the left and right sides of case's larger faces increased. This was done to help emulate the ducting effect of my second thermal test on page 10. I noticed that the case exhausts hot air by blowing almost all of it out of the slimmer sides of the case. The larger unventilated margin in the faces perpendicular to those slimmer side faces should help to funnel that hot exhaust air outwards from the case and prevent recirculation.

Other Improvements

- PSU mounting holes changed into slots to make it easier to install the PSU.

- Increased the size of the cable management cutout/skeletonized the lower part of the motherboard tray to reduce weight, since the weight of the case was a criticism in batch 1.

- Widened the CPU cutout to further reduce weight.

- Beefed up the smaller tab of the motherboard tray to make it stronger and less susceptible to being bent.

- Removed the second set of PCI-E riser mounting holes. Being partnered with Li-Heat, it doesn't make sense for me to support the EZDIY riser anymore.

- Changed the riser mounting holes into PEMsert standoffs. Removes the need for the use of long screws and spacer nuts as in the prototype, which weren't the best at mounting the riser.

- Also moved the riser standoffs 1.2mm upwards from the prototype's original location to fix a particularly complicated issue of the graphics card being tilted in two directions; upwards and outwards. I determined from the prototype that this problem was caused by the base of the graphics card not being close enough to touch the top panel by about a 1.2mm gap. I had to push the graphics card's I/O bracket into the top panel in order to screw it in, which caused the tilting of the graphics card. The PCI-E riser acted like a fulcrum to the lever that is the graphics card; a fulcrum that was out of position, but now is in the right place, which should solve the graphics card tilt.

- Changed the motherboard standoffs from M3 to 6-32. I noticed in the prototype that if I overtightened the motherboard mounting screws, the standoffs are small enough to be forced into the mounting holes of the motherboard. The increased diameter of the 6-32 standoffs will prevent this.

- Also moved the motherboard standoffs 1mm downwards to help fix the issue of I/O shield bulge.

- Enlarged the cutouts in the sides of the motherboard tray to further reduce weight.

- Lengthened the PCI-E indent in the top of the motherboard tray to increase compatibility/reduce potential problems with graphics card I/O brackets.

- Shifted the position of the graphics card screw holes in the top panel downwards and leftwards to make it easier to screw down and install graphics cards.

- Removed the dividing crossbar in the I/O cutout for the graphics card since it is not needed. Also further reduces weight.

- Widened the motherboard I/O cutout in the top panel to make installing I/O shields easier and further help fix the problem of I/O shield bulge.

- Enlarged the hole for the power button to prevent the thickness of the powder coat from interfering with installation of the power button.

- Deepened the cutout indent on the graphics card side of the bottom tray to make it easier to screw in the bottom tray. Also to reduce weight.

- Fixed the position of the third mounting hole for a 3.5" drive in the bottom tray to allow for the fastening of that third screw.

- Lengthened the smaller flange in the side panels that wraps around to the larger sides of the case to give better spacing with the screw countersinks. This change also was needed in order to increase height of the case feet.

- Deepened and widened screw hole countersinks throughout the entirety of the case to give better aesthetics and solve the issue of protruding screw heads as in the prototype.

That's all for changes/improvements to the design.

- - -

I expressed in the past that I want to pursue colors in this batch, so. . .

Black? White? Red? Gray? Some other color? Tell me what colors you'd like, so that I can know which will be the most desired colors and appropriately proportion the quantity of each color to order in this batch before I send the drawings over to Sliger.

There will definitely be more than 10 cases available in this batch, so more people will be able to get their hands on a case.

Also, due to the increased height of the case, I'll be using some different, better shipping boxes this time around with some better cushioning as well. The case will also come assembled in this batch.

Yep, that's all. Thanks for being patient with me. It took a while to fix everything I wanted to.

 

[deathadder666]

I want. Tell me how. Please tell me.