Prototype DR ZĄBER STRICT - Even smaller console cases focused on standard sized cards

[SaperPL]

Hello again guys,

So we’ve been mostly radio silent for years now, but we think it might be time to start talking about what we’re working on next. And it’s not going to be another Sentry case.

What’s happened to the SENTRY 3.0 project?​

While iterating on Sentry 3.0 we kept seeing cards grow bigger and require more space for the power cable and CPUs got more power hungry. At the same time some actually good competitors came out to support those bigger cards and CPUs needing better coolers.

Making Sentry 3.0 bigger would mean competing against them at price, while keeping the same size as the 2.0 would be problematic for a case that we wanted to be supporting most of the cards in the current generation, which wouldn’t happen with the 12VHPWR mess.

Because of that it doesn’t make sense for us to invest into stamping molds for a case with principle of Sentry which was to support most of what is there on the market, if that’s not really possible thanks to 12VHPWR connector and at the same time we don’t want to make the case significantly bigger just to keep making cases. That’s not the point for us.

Ok, so what is STRICT?​

Strict is a case or series of cases that will require strict following of the size for graphics cards - no more oversized coolers and PCB, no more thicker cards, no more additional space for 12VHPWR. On top of that we want to fight for removable brackets and standardised bracket mounts that allow mounting the card to the back wall without them.

Some of the PC vendors like Zotac with their Magnus Mini PC and Lenovo with ThinkCentre Neo Ultra show that they will do the same thing of going away from standard PCI mount approach to optimize the size by getting rid of the PCI bracket on the card and mounting the card directly to the back wall.

Spoiler: Examples of removing standard PCI bracket from the card

2013 - Valve Steam Machine prototype custom bracket on the GPU (GTX 780)

2017 - Zotac Magnus with custom gpu bracket (GTX 1060 / 1070)

2024 - Lenovo thinkcentre with no bracket at all (RTX 4060)

XiKii FF04 with Asus ProArt RTX 5080

Strict is a case aimed at enthusiasts and tinkerers that want to take part in showing that (some of the) graphics cards can and should be standardized in a way that allows designing smaller cases around them. This is how it differs from Sentry - this is a push for a change, so we want experienced enthusiasts onboard first, newcomers and casual builders later.

What is new in STRICT?​

• 5.0L now instead of 6.96L of SENTRY, next iteration will be 5.25L
• Single PCB riser, no two-piece solutions, no custom pieces, no flexible ribbons
• Removable panels from all sides on a frame, reversible vertical stand mounting
• Pass-through vents on both sides - no more thermal wall
• Using FlexATX modular PSU
• Slimmer - no more 48mm tall CPU Coolers, new case designed around NH-L9 height
• Reference / pci-e standard card size at 270mm / 10.5” length, two slot wide
• 19mm low profile vandal power switch instead of 16mm standard vandal switch
• Single USB type-A front panel port instead of two
• When possible, optional single slim 2.5” drive mount
• Rubber feet for vertical orientation mounted with screws holding the bigger panel
• We want to make the parts through stamping with press molds in-house
• Rivets instead of point welds
• Stainless steel instead of galvanized steel

Design approach change - pass through perforation instead of heat wall inside the cover​

Back in Sentry 1.0 and 2.0 days we were still standing firmly on not doing a pass-through cover perforation based on our tests with the cards of the current generations at the time and on how bigger case vendors also dealt with the problem of heat in horizontal cases.

Even later when Sliger Console launched, Wendell from Level1Techs confirmed our expectations in his review of that case, that at the time the performance between both approaches (pass-through vents or limited airflow space around the card) was really close.

We knew though that the case panel would still get really hot in a single spot above the GPU, and the inner wall was supposed to both prevent the hot air getting stuck there.
What changed since then is the fact that since RTX 4xxx we see that most of the more power hungry cards have a bigger pass-through for the airflow at the back of the card.

At the same time it is uncommon now to see a mid-range to high-end card to not have a metal backplate that is dissipating the heat by being connected to the heating up components with some thermal interface, which means they are no more just for the looks, but they also can help taking away this heat by being also cooled with the fan at the end.

Design approach change - riveted frame with panels instead of welded self-supporting body​

Sentry 1.0 and 2.0 were saving space and allowing using up the whole GPU compartment because there was no removable bottom panel that would require mounting points there.
While it allowed squeezing in the full 2.5 slot wide cards, at the same time the fans on those cards got really close to the perforation, so under load they had to be loud.

At the same time access to the back of the board got more important - M.2 SSDs got more common with usually the primary M.2 slot being on top because it has room for a radiator, while secondary slots usually went to the back of the board. This means that in Sentry 1.0 and 2.0 a simple throw-in upgrade adding more drive space with a second M.2 SSD means tearing out the whole motherboard which is not user friendly.

The rivets followed this change to a frame based construction, as we wouldn’t have them at the front of the case anymore like we had the point weld spots.

The first prototype​

To explain why now case is 5.0L in volume while it’ll get bigger to 5.25L - first we wanted to push for this exact size and it was our last effort to try and make the case without stripping the PCI mounting bracket off the cards, while also using a single PCB riser to make the case smaller.

We wanted to use the “feature” of Asrock ITX boards that allows installing cards with a single PCB riser with intrusion of the PCI bracket ends into the reserved ITX board IO area thanks to a small gap in it since around B550 AM4 asrock boards came out.

We also wanted to stick to the SENTRY PSU and graphics card mount layout with how the middle wall was constructed to also support 2.5” mount and some common size of the USB cable as front panel USB connector.

Because of still using the cards with the bracket, figuring out a place for the power connector at the back got complicated and we went for a lower riser, the Supermicro RSC-RR1U-E16 and a molex connector at the back to fit the power connection above the PCI bracket.

The problems of the first prototype​

• Asrock got problems, at least perceived, of burning CPUs, so a case that is initially supported just by their boards got little sense right when we made the prototypes
• Lower pci-e riser meant just 2-slot cards and the fans on some of the cards got loud when close to perforation. Also that riser is not a common size and just pci-e 3.0
• The molex connector requires a dongle, which is not ideal as another piece to lose, but more importantly even the neatly overmoulded cables are not specified for mains AC use at home outside of the device, and there’s no variant that would have more covered pins from the front for more home use safety with mains AC
• The USB front panel had to be mounted onto the frame before the front panel was attached, which had a power button in it that had to be connected afterwards, while there was already a PSU inside so the USB front panel would be installed after the PSU
• Exact 270mm / 10.5” length of the card got cumbersome with some interesting cards like intel’s B580 being released just slightly longer
• In the way the middle wall is constructed following the Sentry design, removing the graphics card from the riser slot is cumbersome because of the riser’s spring latch

Still, this prototype is a good example showing the problems that the bracket causes for cases like this, and while we’re iterating on the more refined design, we have reached out to some youtubers that reviewed our cases before to see if they want to take a look at the prototype and give feedback. Wendell from Level1Techs responded to the call and hopefully he’s preparing a build in it now.

The next iteration - what will be different from first prototype​

• Common 40mm tall PCB riser, aiming to support two layouts of mounting holes
• More distance for the card fans from the perforation, 2.5 slot cards could be a tight fit
• Slightly thicker to make a bigger gap between NH-L9 and perforation
• Slightly longer to allow loose fitting for cards slightly longer than 270mm
• Graphics card mount without using the PCI bracket system, no protrusion at the back
• IEC C14 power connector thanks to removal of the PCI bracket from the card
• Low profile PCB-based USB front panel with type-E connector on the motherboard side - no more USB 20-pin support
• Improved middle wall - better access to riser and easier PSU mount

So what do we want from you if we don’t have the case ready yet?​

• We want to figure out how big of a deal it is to expect enthusiasts to remove the bracket from the graphics card and use the card without it. What are your concerns about this?
• Do you have a problem with a case supporting only PEG 8-PIN cards or 12VHPWR ones only through an angled connector? What are your concerns about this?
• What about the limit of reference/standard size only cards? How big of a deal is it for you?
• We also want to know what would be your expectations performance-wise from a case like this - what CPU and GPU would you want to fit inside? How many drives? 2.5” Drives?

 

[SaperPL]

Even smaller STRICT case concept proving the concept of standardised card sizes​

As an example of the principle of mounting the graphics card without the PCI bracket, we’re also working on an even smaller, 3.3L in volume case, that is using the low profile cards.



The low profile cards come in a standardized size and with an option to swap the PCI bracket between full height and a low profile one which is ideal for showing where we want to get with the full height, but not oversized cards, or at least where is the starting point of it.

The case is not revolutionary in size - there were already cases with similar layout utilising HDPlex 250W GaN power supply, but this can be slimmer and more refined.

 

[SaperPL]

Compatibility & performance placeholder

 

[Octagoncow]

You're back! I was pleasantly surprised to see a new YouTube video from your channel when I got home from work today.

I really like the new concept. It looks nice and it's good to see some more competition around the 5L space. I do have some concerns that cards will continue getting bigger which will limit what can be placed in this case, but the mid and low tier GPUs will probably be fine.

I look forward to keeping up with the progress of the new case!

Honestly, I don't know if I'm 100% the target audience for the case, but I will give my best attempt at giving feedback on your questions:

We want to figure out how big of a deal it is to expect enthusiasts to remove the bracket from the graphics card and use the card without it. What are your concerns about this?

I don't know if I have any immediate concerns about this other than general compatibility concerns, but maybe all GPUs have a known pattern for mounting points on the case.

Do you have a problem with a case supporting only PEG 8-PIN cards or 12VHPWR ones only through an angled connector? What are your concerns about this?

Forgive my ignorance, but are you talking about the white connector on the back of the case? That was a point of concern I saw when watching the video. How durable of a connector is that or how easy/cheap will it be to replace?


What about the limit of reference/standard size only cards? How big of a deal is it for you?
We also want to know what would be your expectations performance-wise from a case like this - what CPU and GPU would you want to fit inside? How many drives? 2.5” Drives?

CPU and GPU wise I would want to be able to handle fitting mid tier parts in the case (65W CPU and something like a 5060 or maybe 5060ti). I don't care about any 2.5" drives. Now that many ITX motherboards support multiple m.2 SSDs, I don't really see the appeal of 2.5" drives.

 

[Khio]

Hello Mr Zaber !
It is so nice to hear about you again, and to know you are working again on a new case !

Sentry 2.0 Unit N° 0735 reporting o7

I have been using and loving my Sentry 2.0 since I got it. It still have its same Aorus B450 motherboard with a Ryzen 3700X and 16GB RAM. I have upgraded the GPU to a 6700XT (AMD Reference Model) from a 5700XT (also reference).
It now runs Bazzite for month, and I have similar or slighty better performance than my PS5 and I've been really happy with it !

Now to answer your questions I'll start by saying I believes that nowadays more than ever, building a PC is really an enthousiast hobby, and build a SFFPC is even more a niche in that hobby, full of compromise and tinkiring ;
We are never expecting (I hope so) to build a mini PC with the latest high-end GPU avaiable ;

Removable bracket :
I personally never removed a GPU bracket (I did do some swap for low-profile bracket) but that's not something that should cause a problem, if the GPU and the case supports it ;

Angled connector :
Not a problem, I already need custom connector and/or terrible cable management to fit a GPU in most of existing SFFPC case I've tried ;

Performance expectation / GPU size :
I think a lot have changed since Sentry 2, now with DLSS and FSR 4 getting really good we can expect really good gaming experience with little GPU.
Any 65 W CPU support with NH9 cooler is good enough, for GPU I'm expecting to fit a mid-tier GPU so I guess 2.5 slot considering the cooler are getting large. I think 2 slot only length would just be too tight ;

Storage :
As a gaming machine I tend to only use M2 SSD now, with all my go to daily data on external drive ;

Now for a more personal note :

I really like the Sentry because it is a small PC, but still a PC, with the support of PC standard ; I completely understand the wish to go smaller and the idea for changes but at some point the only way to go smaller is to make a completely custom device, like a console or the Steam Machine ;

Sentry 2 might have its flaws, (the biggest for me is its weight IT'S HEAVY) but it is still the best looking SFFPC case I know, not even close ; But I'm glad it fits standards PC components, even if the compatibility list and small, it is part of the compromise. Also the Steam Machine is coming, and there will be no competition with it about size...

Have you considered making a case without GPU compartment at all ? Slightly larger to fit a bigger CPU cooler to rely on the new/upcoming APU ?

 

[SaperPL]

Long time no see @Octagoncow

I don't know if I have any immediate concerns about this other than general compatibility concerns, but maybe all GPUs have a known pattern for mounting points on the case.

They don't. There was a brief moment when we had the RTX 2000 and RTX 3000 series cards share the same hole layout for the PCI bracket mount on the reference cards, but that's it. Right now it's that even vendors don't keep standardised mounting methods between card generations, so each time you would need to have a custom bracket for a card. KFA2 / Galax had been also having this layout on RTX 3000 and RTX 4000 custom cards but they moved the hole pattern. And Asus ProArt card seems to be made to match the same config now because there's the case from XiiKii that is built exactly for it.

We're taking a bit different approach to mount the card though because of that difference and we won't be using it.

Forgive my ignorance, but are you talking about the white connector on the back of the case? That was a point of concern I saw when watching the video. How durable of a connector is that or how easy/cheap will it be to replace?

Talking about limiting ourselves to cards that use 8-pin connector unless you have a safe angled low profile solution for 12VHPWR.

The white molex 3-pin connector will not be there simply because molex doesn't have an over-moulded connector like this that is a safety variant for use with mains AC, but also that the whole idea was to keep the bracket because we could with Asrock boards, but now they have a brand image problem and also the connector forced us to use a lower riser, so graphics card is closer to the perforation and the riser is not a common shape.

About the safety of the connector - I'm running my system with RTX 4070 / RX 9060 XT / B580 for over a year now and never had an issue with it, in theory it should be fine up to something around 900W. The issue though is that a kid could put a small fork in it or you could simply lose it while travelling so it a wrong way to go about solving the size problem this way.

But I still wanted to make a first prototype like this so we can have a reference of choice between this and what we can achieve by removing PCI brackets from the cards once we'll get there.

About the replacement parts for the cable if you were still curious - these are off-shelf MiniFit Jr molex parts and common IEC C14 pieces. The only custom part is a cap on IEC C14 connector on the side of the PSU that's 3d printed with electrical-safe filament for these prototypes.

 

[SaperPL]

@Khio thanks for responses

Now for a more personal note :

I really like the Sentry because it is a small PC, but still a PC, with the support of PC standard ; I completely understand the wish to go smaller and the idea for changes but at some point the only way to go smaller is to make a completely custom device, like a console or the Steam Machine ;

Sentry 2 might have its flaws, (the biggest for me is its weight IT'S HEAVY) but it is still the best looking SFFPC case I know, not even close ; But I'm glad it fits standards PC components, even if the compatibility list and small, it is part of the compromise. Also the Steam Machine is coming, and there will be no competition with it about size...

That's understandable. But the cards going larger and larger is exactly why it kept being a never ending chase to grow slightly bigger simply because you won't cross that threshold of the amount of the cards fitting the case if you want to keep the size, especially when most of the smaller cards are in scarce stock and vendors are pushing mostly the bigger custom cards. And at the same time, like I wrote in the opening post, there are competing cases that are fine if you want to fit whatever you want off the shelve there.

The good example here is the new case from NCase and NFC - S5M which is getting close to Fractal Design Ridge in volume - the decision on that is a good one if you want to make a case that supports common off-shelf components, but we don't want to go up in size just to keep selling cases - this doesn't make sense for us.

About the weight - the change in case construction design to frame with panels is opening up possibility of panels being made from aluminum, but we're not there yet to test how it'll feel like.

Have you considered making a case without GPU compartment at all ? Slightly larger to fit a bigger CPU cooler to rely on the new/upcoming APU ?

The APUs are a never ending story to be honest. We won't get them performing comparably to desktop cards unless we're on LPCAMM type of memory or unless there's something like HBM package as a second die on the chip. The problem is that AMD is most likely being pressured by pre-built vendors to not release something like that for a mainstream platform because it would easily cut into segments where vendors are selling you additional item on the component list which is graphics card.

From how I see it, it's easy to price a board with integrated GPU high because it's a niche item. But if you allow the CPU to be just that single CPU, then the board, the memory is mainstream, so if it supports that awesome APU, the vendors won't be happy that you just buy this board priced as every other board and buy common memory sticks, and buy AM6 APU directly from AMD, where in such situation AMD could easily kill lower market segments if they price the APUs low.

For now though the excuse is that we don't have enough bandwidth for it to make sense to create AM5 APU that has significantly higher throughput than the previous generation.

So probably you don't have a problem with fitting bigger CPU cooler for APU because your APU integrated on the board will come with a dedicated cooler.

By the way - with LPCAMM we should be able to easily have 120mm fans on low profile coolers similar to NH-L9, and if the IO reserved space was reduced from 39mm to 30mm and all connectors put in a 15mm area on the opposite side to the PCI-e slot, we could have 140mm low profile cooler fitting within outline of the IO backplate. Hopefully we'll get there once LPCAMM-style of memory becomes mainstream.

 

[garou81]

• I think its a great idea to replace the pci bracket with a custom bracket more suited for this case. The legacy bracket wastes too much space, a bent bracket that acts as a back plate might be a good idea.
• Im happy that the case will not support graphics cards which are not small form factor. That bieng said I would like to see the max gpu length increased to 280 to support the smallest 9070(sapphire pulse) but there were some good sub 270 options last generation (7800xt) so there may be some next generation.
• I dont think making the case thinner and limiting the cooler selection is a good idea or trade off, whats the point of making the case thinner? I'd like a 47mm cooler at least maybe 53.
• typical build would be 7600x with a 9060xt or 5070. Im prioritizing amd cards for their linux performace over nvidia and 2 m.2 drives over a 2.5"sata drive. the next gen itx boards may likely have 3 m.2 slots so Im happy to move on from 2.5" drives

 

[SaperPL]

@garou81 thanks for feedback!

I think its a great idea to replace the pci bracket with a custom bracket more suited for this case. The legacy bracket wastes too much space, a bent bracket that acts as a back plate might be a good idea.

The point is not to replace the bracket, but to remove it and mount the card to the case without the bracket in some way. Ideally we would do it like XiKii FF04 or Lenovo mini PC in a way there are dedicated screw holes fitting the graphics card layout, but for it to make sense, the graphics cards would need to have standardised layout of those screws, make it so you're not voiding warranty by removing the bracket and hopefully all use M3 screws to mount it.

But we're not going to be doing that, we'll just remove it and we'll attach the card in a different way.

Im happy that the case will not support graphics cards which are not small form factor. That bieng said I would like to see the max gpu length increased to 280 to support the smallest 9070(sapphire pulse) but there were some good sub 270 options last generation (7800xt) so there may be some next generation.

Sapphire pulse 9070 is oversized / taller than reference/standard size card, thus it won't fit. Aside from it, it's 2.5 slot and draws significantly more power, so with 600W enhance PSU, it'll get loud under load easily. The space for the GPU in the case will be 275mm and that's it. Those are few mm of leeway over 270mm because some cards like the intel B580 cross it already, and for some optimisations on the other side of the case around PSU and USB header.

• I dont think making the case thinner and limiting the cooler selection is a good idea or trade off, whats the point of making the case thinner? I'd like a 47mm cooler at least maybe 53.

With Sentry cases we have tested a lot of coolers of up to 47mm height and eventually ended up using NH-L9a for all our builds.

There was one cooler that at 47mm is beautifully quiet, but not when facing perforation too closely - the Cryorig C7, and we actually considered widening the Sentry 3.0 just to support it because aside from that (and maybe not that great retention mechanism) the C7G is a solid cooler for the size. But it seems to have been discontinued.

Aside from this, we want to make the case slimmer and show that cooler like NH-L9a could work fine with low power CPUs or if you just limit tjMax to something like 65c - my 9600X works fine like that for gaming with mid-range cards. 5600X does the same. If you'd want to go with an X3D chip and some more power hungry card, then probably that will be a significant performance bottleneck with such limitation, but then, the 600W flex psu 40mm fan will be screaming anyway, so it's out of scope for our case anyway.

• typical build would be 7600x with a 9060xt or 5070. Im prioritizing amd cards for their linux performace over nvidia and 2 m.2 drives over a 2.5"sata drive. the next gen itx boards may likely have 3 m.2 slots so Im happy to move on from 2.5" drives

I've been running 9600X (with tjmax cap in PBO at 65c) + 9060XT build with SteamOS around last September and it ran fine and quiet. Later started using this system as my main PC with 4070 on windows and didn't had any problems.

And yeah, with such tight space it might not make sense to support 2.5" drives anymore because it just adds to the cable mess.

 

[MarcParis]

Interesting new concept!

 

[Fueled By Yams]

I think this is a great concept, consider me interested

Edit:

And to answer some of your questions.

1. I personally have no concerns with removing the PCIE bracket. It’s easier on some cards than others (i.e. you can do this on some cards without removing your warranty sticker), but I don’t think enthusiasts will mind for the most part. This is probably the biggest caveat though for most people.
2. Given that NVIDIA acknowledged the issue with their connector and started angling it for the 50 series, I think this is an acceptable compromise. I’m fine with only having 8 pin support be a guarantee.
3. I have zero problem with limiting cards to reference size. A lot of people are racing to fit as much hardware as possible in their ITX project; I am more interested in smaller cases that accept some level of compromise.
4. I’d expect solid thermal performance with, say, a Ryzen 9700x and RX 9060 XT. This is the config I have in a Midori 5L (similar compatibility) and thermals are great.

 

[SaperPL]

@Fueled By Yams
Thanks for the feedback

1. I personally have no concerns with removing the PCIE bracket. It’s easier on some cards than others (i.e. you can do this on some cards without removing your warranty sticker), but I don’t think enthusiasts will mind for the most part. This is probably the biggest caveat though for most people.

This is exactly why we want to target enthusiasts first to show that this is a concept that enthusiasts can get into. There will be go-to cards picked by those enthusiasts and these card can be recommended to casuals getting into it later on, so maybe card vendors will notice that and address it somehow.

2. Given that NVIDIA acknowledged the issue with their connector and started angling it for the 50 series, I think this is an acceptable compromise. I’m fine with only having 8 pin support be a guarantee.

Well, the problem is that founders edition cards are unobtanium in many countries. They disappeared instantly in our local nvidia store page. And some of those pop up after they are used for to to three years on marketplaces. There are two 5070 FE I can see available as new here now and they are 40% more expensive than custom models of 5070. Those cards are made in scarce quantities to show how good they could be, but nvidia doesn't want to commit to them.

And the angled connector - card partners tend to be really slow with implementing features nvidia make with their cards unless it is mandatory to have them. If nvidia forced them to manufacture the FE / reference cards like it was before, some of those changes would simply go into other cards where they would reuse the same PCB and the bracket, and those models would just have a different cooler. But we're not there and we don't have such cards widely available, so it's either using an angled adapter cable or finding some unicorn card that has the stealth cable solution, which funnily enough, now could be a downside of such card where it would hide from you that the connector is melting

4. I’d expect solid thermal performance with, say, a Ryzen 9700x and RX 9060 XT. This is the config I have in a Midori 5L (similar compatibility) and thermals are great.

We'll have to see about that 9700x's performance because the case is slimmer and the go-to cooler right now is NH-L9. The second iteration will be slightly wider to reduce close to perforation turbulence on high RPM and we'll see where we are at with it. Interestingly the simplest way to deal with it is actually doing a max temperature limit in PBO where actually for gaming we'll not seeing much of a performance drop unless we are talking about games where you want to push a lot of frames like Counter Strike and I would expect those 0.01% lows to not be as perfect if you're not allowing all the power that the CPU could take out of the box.

But this is supposed to be a console case, so this is if you want this to not be noisy in front of TV. If you don't care and you're playing CS in your room with headphones, then it should be fine.

But this problem should be handled at some point when we'll get to motherboards with lpcamm memory, assuming we'll get those in ITX form factor. If memory will be low profile, then it'll be easy to put a 120mm fan on top of low profile radiator, and if board vendors would be smart, they will optimise the layout of connectors and it should be possible to put a 140mm fan on a low profile radiator, so at the same height we could be seeing like 70% / 130% more radiator cooled by fan area at the same height as NH-L9 which would actually address the current "65W" CPUs properly.

The two-fan 9060 XT 16GB from PowerColor runs fine with 9600X in the case. And it will get better in second iteration because the riser will be ~1cm taller one, so there will be this much more distance to the perforation for the thicker cards that may cause the turbulence when facing perforation close at high RPM.

 

[Lextheimpaler]

I have a Zaber Sentry 2.0 and a Zotac 5070ti SFF .

I’m downsizing to a Velka 3 with a 5070mini because the Zaber isn’t really that portable for me as the footprint means it can’t be put in a backpack as easily as a Velka3 . Also the Sentry weighs a lot around 3kg.

If the sentry strict is 5L and needs a flex psu then it’s in a crowded space eg, Midori and China cases .

If you make a 5L make it SFX PSU compatible otherwise go back to the drawing board and make a sub 4L case .

 

[SaperPL]

@Lextheimpaler

Thanks for feedback. Yes, Sentry weight is significant because the panels were welded so we used steel for that.

isn’t really that portable for me as the footprint means it can’t be put in a backpack as easily as a Velka3

That's an interesting take - yes, Sentry is filling up the backpack, but Velka 3 supports only ITX sized gpus and also is thicker. Actually a good comparison would be something like A4-SFX and other back to back cases if you want an apples to apples comparison, otherwise anything smaller will obviously be better.

If the sentry strict is 5L and needs a flex psu then it’s in a crowded space eg, Midori and China cases .

If you make a 5L make it SFX PSU compatible otherwise go back to the drawing board and make a sub 4L case .

Strict isn't a Sentry case, this is a separate project. We'll get back to Sentry when or if the 12VHPWR madness ends.

The space with slim / desktop / console cases with Flex PSU is crowded, but it is crowded with cases that are still really rough when it comes to design / aesthetics of it.

Of course there are people that don't care and will just go for whatever is there now for the size, but we want to aim at something that is a bit more stylish and solves some problems instead of ignoring them like for example sticking out the cable or whole back of the PSU to the side of the case instead of routing it properly at the back or sticking out the ends of PCI brackets over the motherboard IO backplate. There's a lot of those and we want to figure out how to do this part properly. And there are people appreciating something being designed more thoroughly, so we're hoping to get their attention with our case.

About the SFX compatibility - one of the reasons to go slimmer and use Flex ATX was to make the case even more portable. And Sentry while being already good for fitting in a backpack, it was a tight fit for a reasonable sized backpack.

At the same time, we keep hitting a wall of people trying to squeeze as much power as possible into those cases, while we're missing opportunities to show that a 150~180W GPU and a 45W CPU would make sense in such small console system in front of TV. We're partially at fault here because of the price so far, but we do want to change that over time. But anyway - there is a reason in why upcoming Steam Machine isn't a high end system - if you want something relatively quiet in the living room and at the same time not too big, it has to have reasonable power draw, and that's the whole point of this case - to show that it is possible to do a console based on ATX components that makes sense as a console and not a console killer with 1000W power supply and 5090 etc on board. The case is supposed to be strict on what you can fit inside to force this approach and this is where the name is coming from.

 

[jonathan7]

@Lextheimpaler

At the same time, we keep hitting a wall of people trying to squeeze as much power as possible into those cases, while we're missing opportunities to show that a 150~180W GPU and a 45W CPU would make sense in such small console system in front of TV.

I’ll try to put a video for you togeather of it as did run a system in similar size to your prototype in an industrial case with similar idea. Did run into some overheating issues especially on CPU side nothing high end (was a Ryzen 5 5600, GPU was a RX 6600). I started cutting holes in case, but have wondered if issue was partly the hot air coming off the GPU was getting drawn back into the CPU area. This might not be an issue in your testing, but I’ve always wondered if flipping the GPU 180 on console builds so all the intakes were on CPU side would help with any recirculation issues. Not sure if that would be less space efficient though given risers having to stretch round to the otherside/being more awkward. Have been working on a 3d printed case with that idea, but have both had health issues and my MSc is due in mid July and has taken a back burner for now. If its any help can send photos/video of the case (its currently partially assembled).

 

[SaperPL]

Did run into some overheating issues especially on CPU side nothing high end (was a Ryzen 5 5600, GPU was a RX 6600).

Overheating how? CPU throttling significantly or simply running high temperature like 95 degrees? Because it will just go there with NH-L9a because it can.

I’ve always wondered if flipping the GPU 180 on console builds so all the intakes were on CPU side would help with any recirculation issues.

We weren't investigating this approach for the simple reason - we want to use basic / generic 90 degree 40mm PCB risers that can be cheaply replaced even after warranty. Anything with ribbon and longer ended up not being a good idea to a point that even replacement for the 5cm ribbon risers that we used in Sentry is not easy to find. But the 40mm PCB risers are somewhat rack standard so this should be fine.

And our point is that we do want to allow as much compatibility post-warranty as possible as in right-to-repair approach simply because until we are there with continuous production and support, we shouldn't really promise a long term support of spare parts. This time we want to kick it off for longer production, but again, the PC meta may change as it changed with 12VHPWR and we can be caught in the middle once again.

Also the problem with longer ribbon riser is that they are hit or miss when it comes to stability of the signal on more recent pci-e versions and can behave differently between nvidia and amd cards and different motherboards, so we don't want to get into that custom ribbon riser grey area.

Not sure if that would be less space efficient though given risers having to stretch round to the otherside/being more awkward.

My guess is that it would be less space efficient because GPU PCB's pci-e fingers wouldn't be intruding into the motherboard area over the pci-e slot, but now it would need to find place somewhere around on the same level as the motherboard PCB.

Also there's a question about what direction do you want to use it? If you lay it flat, do you want it to pull hot air from the top? And then it blows hot air back down and you need to figure out the problem of hot air recirculation or do you want to prop the case on some feet and pull air from the bottom and then the motherboard may be holding the heat while being upside down.

It would be a great layout if you would have intake fans from the front though - working like in rack - and you don't need feet to put it higher to get airflow from below.

Anyway we're aiming at something using that common / generic riser so we don't want to overcomplicate the layout.

 

[GucksTV]

Wow! I was researching the Sentry sizes as I was looking for interesting projects to work on and then I've stumbled over the 5L version and even more stunning 3.3L Prototype! It would be an amazing Steam Machine Killer. (3.5L)

Love the RTX 5060 Low Profile cards and varity we have been getting in this formfactor. Imagine the announced RX 9060 XT LP will find its way and this will be the GOAT for SFF gaming.

Give it a white & black version for two different color schemes and you are golden. Love the Material and Design choice of the original Sentry and would love to see your brand get reintroduced to the market. Guess one of the most important question would be the choice of compatible coolers. As Thermalright AXP90 (and Noctua for NH-L9) rules the cheap and well available SFF segment (at least in Germany) the 37/38mm for 3,3L and 47/48mm for +5L and maybe 53/54mm for the Sentry 3.0 in the future would be the way to go? I like the extra +1mm to have enought space between the components and side pannel to avoid turbulence.

Love to see your been back in the SFF game @SaberPL Życzę Ci wszystkiego najlepszego!

 

[SaperPL]

@GucksTV Thanks for the feedback and wishes

even more stunning 3.3L Prototype! It would be an amazing Steam Machine Killer. (3.5L)

Love the RTX 5060 Low Profile cards and varity we have been getting in this formfactor. Imagine the announced RX 9060 XT LP will find its way and this will be the GOAT for SFF gaming.

This one is a concept still. It has a custom card hold matching exactly the gigabyte 5060 low profile and holds it by the bracket screws which isn't universal. And on top of that, 5060 is not a radeon, so I had to test this on Bazzite and CachyOS which are not the same experience as actual SteamOS. I'm waiting for a 9050 or 9060 low power to happen in low profile to continue this project.

This one has some trade offs though - I wanted to make it as slim as possible and because of that the room for the cooler is really tight and also card is recessed at the back because the board is recessed. If we'll get radeon or arc gaming low profile cards in current generations, I'll pick it up again, because this smaller one has still some unfinished design work to do.

Give it a white & black version for two different color schemes and you are golden. Love the Material and Design choice of the original Sentry and would love to see your brand get reintroduced to the market.

White paint is tricky and we would need to look for another powder coating shop that would want to do it and again risk the quality there. It's really easy to vary between yellow-ish / ivory color when there's too much of the white powder coat to icy blue tone when it's a bit too little of it on the surface, so you either need to have really skilled shop doing it or it needs to be applied by robots.

The gray color however we should try and figure out a perfect tone that sits well with most of the people. In the first video you can see that we've already tried a bit more darker / colder tone against the Sentry 2.0.

Guess one of the most important question would be the choice of compatible coolers. As Thermalright AXP90 (and Noctua for NH-L9) rules the cheap and well available SFF segment (at least in Germany) the 37/38mm for 3,3L and 47/48mm for +5L and maybe 53/54mm for the Sentry 3.0 in the future would be the way to go? I like the extra +1mm to have enought space between the components and side pannel to avoid turbulence.

This is a tricky one - Strict is not really a Sentry replacement when it comes to performance tier - Sentry was significantly bigger and thicker and Strict is designed around NH-L9a.

Actually our Sentry 3.0 designs so far were slightly thicker than Sentry 2.0 to support Cryorig C7 coolers - the fans of those coolers were amazing with enough clearance, but we didn't have that - we designed case for 47mm coolers and C7 was exactly that without taking into consideration how much room it needs to not cause turbulence. And it also failed the same way in Dan's A4-SFX with a video showing exactly that issue. And C7 seems to have been discontinued.

We ended up with focus on NH-L9 because for the 65W CPU configurations that were ours goal all this time for console builds every other cooler wasn't quiet enough and despite a pile of different low profile coolers that we tested, in our builds we always ended up with NH-L9a. This of course would be different if the Strict was to be thicker than Sentry and we would have room to look at coolers thicker than 47mm, but that's not where we want to go with it.

For now, we want to have an optimal gap for the NH-L9a with some constraints of the CPU because it's supposed to be a case for a console PC build, but we should be seeing different coolers at some point when the lpcamm memory somehow fits onto the ITX form factor.

 

[Fueled By Yams]

The space with slim / desktop / console cases with Flex PSU is crowded, but it is crowded with cases that are still really rough when it comes to design / aesthetics of it.

Completely agree. I think it's a little silly to say the Strict's hardware compatibility is in a crowded space compared to taobao options because EVERY case layout is in a crowded space compared to taobao. There are countless case designs of various compatibility on that site.

I absolutely think the Strict has its place in the market with enthusiasts, as I can't think of a place I can buy a case like the Strict (5-6L flex ATX console style) right now aside from taobao. There are some open source options, but I'm talking a complete, ready to ship product.

We ended up with focus on NH-L9 because for the 65W CPU configurations that were ours goal all this time for console builds every other cooler wasn't quiet enough and despite a pile of different low profile coolers that we tested, in our builds we always ended up with NH-L9a. This of course would be different if the Strict was to be thicker than Sentry and we would have room to look at coolers thicker than 47mm, but that's not where we want to go with it.

I think this is the way to go as well. Josh from NFC still considers the L9 the all around super low profile king, and I agree after trying a slew of other LP coolers. It can handle my 9700x in my current case no problem with a little PBO and comes with one of the highest quality 92mm fans you can get. This is a very reasonable target.


I'm very excited for this project!

P.S. I'm also happy with black and grey as options, similar to the original sentry. I know timelines are very difficult to provide, and I'm certainly not expecting any promises; but how far apart do you think this case is from production?

 

[SaperPL]

I know timelines are very difficult to provide, and I'm certainly not expecting any promises; but how far apart do you think this case is from production?

We're very close to finishing the designs of the functional part for the 2nd prototype, there's two spots that we're considering whether they need to be improved, which will complicate it a bit or not. But after that we have to update the drawings for the prototype and it'll take a bit. My hope would be to get this second prototype made before the year ends, but I'm not a mechanical engineer and I'm not the one to finalize the 2d drawings for the prototype, and the other ongoing projects with higher priority are occupying @ZombiPL

As for the actual manufacturing run, it would be good to start focusing on that next year, but if we want to go with stamping molds it'll take some time as well on that.