Hey @dondan
Your newegg account is just for US right? I'm just wondering if it includes newegg.ca for Canada.
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DAN C4-SFX
- Thread starter dondan
- Start date
Your newegg account is just for US right? I'm just wondering if it includes newegg.ca for Canada.
Probably wherever Lian Li decides -- they're Taiwan-based, but have facilities in China as well
If newegg will work out well i will focus on asia market
Would air cooling or water cooling (AIO) for the CPU be the best choice in this case when combined with a 300-500w GPU? Probably air?
Air mode with D12L intakes fresh air from rear (good) and has positive air pressure (good), but you only get a single side mount exhaust fan (less good).
Water mode the 240/280 radiator is going to be eating GPU exhaust (less good) and you'll have negative air pressure if your chonky GPU doesn't leave room for top mount fans (less good), but you get dual side mount exhaust fans (with airflow restricted by radiator).
Also, for AIO choice would a current gen 240 (late '22 / early '23) with a standard thickness radiator make the most sense for ease of install and reduced resistance to exhaust airflow even though larger / thicker units are technically supported?
The EK Nucleus CR240 looks like it might be an excellent fit and if there's clearance behind it you could upgrade it with 2x T30s to increase exhaust airflow. 280 AIOs just aren't getting the same product development love as 240 AIOs and fan swap options at 140mm are much weaker - at least until T30 140mm / A14x25 come out.
Air mode with D12L intakes fresh air from rear (good) and has positive air pressure (good), but you only get a single side mount exhaust fan (less good).
Water mode the 240/280 radiator is going to be eating GPU exhaust (less good) and you'll have negative air pressure if your chonky GPU doesn't leave room for top mount fans (less good), but you get dual side mount exhaust fans (with airflow restricted by radiator).
Also, for AIO choice would a current gen 240 (late '22 / early '23) with a standard thickness radiator make the most sense for ease of install and reduced resistance to exhaust airflow even though larger / thicker units are technically supported?
The EK Nucleus CR240 looks like it might be an excellent fit and if there's clearance behind it you could upgrade it with 2x T30s to increase exhaust airflow. 280 AIOs just aren't getting the same product development love as 240 AIOs and fan swap options at 140mm are much weaker - at least until T30 140mm / A14x25 come out.
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Quick Noctua D12L note for anyone considering using this cooler in dual fan mode as shown in C4-SFX product shots & manual pdf.
According to Noctua for the D12L to stay 145mm the height of RAM / components beneath the second fan is limited to 29mm max. RAM without heat spreaders is typically 31.25mm tall and most low profile performance memory like Ripjaws, Vengeance LPX, Vengeance is 33-35mm.
So either the C4-SFX has a CPU cooler height max > 145mm or the D12L won't actually fit in dual fan mode (even 31.25mm > 29mm). Either way the D12L dual fan config will be extremely sensitive to RAM height.
Personally I'm hoping to fit a slightly taller Deepcool AG400 (150mm). This cooler has a significant offset to provide additional RAM clearance and *if* it fits it looks like you could get away with putting 2X T30s on it while still maintaining 100% RAM clearance / avoiding the D12L's dual fan RAM clearance issues and the need for custom A12x25r fans that only work with the D12L.
According to Noctua for the D12L to stay 145mm the height of RAM / components beneath the second fan is limited to 29mm max. RAM without heat spreaders is typically 31.25mm tall and most low profile performance memory like Ripjaws, Vengeance LPX, Vengeance is 33-35mm.
So either the C4-SFX has a CPU cooler height max > 145mm or the D12L won't actually fit in dual fan mode (even 31.25mm > 29mm). Either way the D12L dual fan config will be extremely sensitive to RAM height.
Personally I'm hoping to fit a slightly taller Deepcool AG400 (150mm). This cooler has a significant offset to provide additional RAM clearance and *if* it fits it looks like you could get away with putting 2X T30s on it while still maintaining 100% RAM clearance / avoiding the D12L's dual fan RAM clearance issues and the need for custom A12x25r fans that only work with the D12L.
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Hrmm. So dual fan D12L config won't work for anyone without VLP RAM. Got it.
So for air most who buy the C4-SFX will be deciding between C14S in dual fan mode and D12S in single fan mode and the dual fan C14S should perform better.
That makes most likely best air cooling option a C14S with T30 (or upcoming A14x25 or T30 140) mounted on top and A12x15 / A12x25 / T30 mounted below with lower fan choice tailored to your build's RAM / component clearance?
Any chance a 150mm single tower like the Deepcool AG400 will be able to squeeze in?
If you like to install the top fans for the C14S on the AIO bracket you are limited to 25mm in height. If you remove the AIO bracket 30mm thick ones can fit. 150mm single tower will only fit if you not put the sidepanels on.
As its my first water-cooled build i wanted to do some test-building before the case arrives, so then:
That EKWB Pump-Res-Combo-Block is a pretty tight fit on µITX boards...
It was quite a hassle with routing the cables that come out on the bottom of the block, cause normally it would be orientated the other way round. but due to the fact how the mobo is orientated in the C4 i had to mount it 180° rotated, (so fill/drain is on top). At the moment it's mounted "normally" on the IHS, cause the EKWB direct-die kit isn't out yet.
Then tried to build up the loop, went for 10/16 soft tubes, which definetly won't make it to my final C4 build as they are much too stiff, also the fittings are too big - on the block of the 4090 i had to improvise, cause the inlet/outlet are too close together for "normal" 10/16 fittings. Also then had some problems with one of the alpha-cool quick connects, which did hang occasionally and did block water flow, but now it's all sorted out, water is running, all is sealed, ready for setup and further testing (but as i spilled some liquid during filling, i'll let it dry for some days before i go on :-))
(Edit: and yes, on the final build i won't be able to use the top inlet/outlet ports of the block, but for that i also wait for the re-build with the 10/13 tubes, i might even go hard-tubing for some parts)
That EKWB Pump-Res-Combo-Block is a pretty tight fit on µITX boards...
It was quite a hassle with routing the cables that come out on the bottom of the block, cause normally it would be orientated the other way round. but due to the fact how the mobo is orientated in the C4 i had to mount it 180° rotated, (so fill/drain is on top). At the moment it's mounted "normally" on the IHS, cause the EKWB direct-die kit isn't out yet.
Then tried to build up the loop, went for 10/16 soft tubes, which definetly won't make it to my final C4 build as they are much too stiff, also the fittings are too big - on the block of the 4090 i had to improvise, cause the inlet/outlet are too close together for "normal" 10/16 fittings. Also then had some problems with one of the alpha-cool quick connects, which did hang occasionally and did block water flow, but now it's all sorted out, water is running, all is sealed, ready for setup and further testing (but as i spilled some liquid during filling, i'll let it dry for some days before i go on :-))
(Edit: and yes, on the final build i won't be able to use the top inlet/outlet ports of the block, but for that i also wait for the re-build with the 10/13 tubes, i might even go hard-tubing for some parts)
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thanks for the tip :-)
i think i'll do the detailed planning on final tubing and tube-routing when the case arrives, i can hardly imagine how all those things should fit in the case, and where all the cables and tubes should go
i think i'll do the detailed planning on final tubing and tube-routing when the case arrives, i can hardly imagine how all those things should fit in the case, and where all the cables and tubes should go
Great to know - thanks.
Will removing the AIO bracket make it impossible to mount the side panel fan above the power supply for handling flow through GPU exhaust?
That is to say will using a C14S / T30 combo with the AIO bracket removed prevent you from mounting a 120 / 140 fan in the position above the power supply?
Building in an NR200 while I wait for C4-SFX availability and trying to buy the right mix of fans for a smooth transfer to the C4-SFX.
I have a windforce 4090. If you deshrouded it, did you need to remove the heatsink from the PCB to get to the screws?
What is the max available height beneath the 2x 140 top fans including the GPU? This would be extremely useful info for anyone considering a deshroud.,
If this area has just a few more mm of available height than the 78mm / 3.9 slots max GPU thickness - say 80, 85 or 90mm tall - that would allow many of us to plan for thicker top fans than we would be able to fit otherwise. Even a few mm of additional height where the top fans slots are could be the difference between fitting A12x15's (15mm) and A12x25's (25mm) or A12x25's (25mm) and T30's (30mm) which could have a big build impact.
@boundary-stone: as dan pointed out to me earlier, from mid of the PCIE-Slot to the top of the case you have 77mm of space.
Coming back to the PSU topic, i now had both PSUs (SilverStone Extrem 850R and CoolerMaster V1300 SFX) hooked up to the system and did a 3DM TimeSpy Loop Run on both. the GPU did never take more than 448W of power - on neither of the PSUs. I first thought it might be the SST only delivering 450W over the 12VHPWR connector, but as hwinfo showed it's simply the 4090s Voltage limiting it - so if you won't be messing with the voltage or overclocking, the 450W is just fine for the 4090). The SST stays almost quiet all the time (when idling the fan even stops) - whereas the CoolerMasters fan is always on - in idle (when the rest of the system produces almost no noise at all) thats pretty annoying.
Coming back to the PSU topic, i now had both PSUs (SilverStone Extrem 850R and CoolerMaster V1300 SFX) hooked up to the system and did a 3DM TimeSpy Loop Run on both. the GPU did never take more than 448W of power - on neither of the PSUs. I first thought it might be the SST only delivering 450W over the 12VHPWR connector, but as hwinfo showed it's simply the 4090s Voltage limiting it - so if you won't be messing with the voltage or overclocking, the 450W is just fine for the 4090). The SST stays almost quiet all the time (when idling the fan even stops) - whereas the CoolerMasters fan is always on - in idle (when the rest of the system produces almost no noise at all) thats pretty annoying.
My 4090 also takes 450W at 100% power limit (connected to 600W 12VHPWR using the Corsair 12VHPWR to 2X Type 4 adapter with an SF750). At 90% power limit it's 400W. At 80% power limit it's 360W. At 70% power limit it's 315W. Looking at how that scales (~50W per 10% power limit increment) increasing the power limit to anything in the 110-130% range will put you over 450W though.
So for anyone concerned about running a 4090 on a 450W capped 12VHPWR cable just set the 4090's power limit to 90% - that'll give you ~50W of headroom for a maybe 2-3% performance decrease.
Fan speed requirements on the card itself will drop dramatically as you scale the power limit down too. At 70% my 4090's fans were running at 400 rpm (!) during a full furmark load making the card effectively silent which is just incredible. 70% power limit is definitely the sweet spot.
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Can the bottom cover below the CPU cooler (05 in the manual's parts list) be attached when the C14S is installed?
Found a reference to this not being possible, but I think it was from before the production version was finalized.
Found a reference to this not being possible, but I think it was from before the production version was finalized.
Thought about best airflow setup for an air cooling focused C4-SFX build a bit more and settled on this:
CPU: C14S in dual fan mode w/2x A12x25 as intake
GPU TUNNEL: T30 (or A12x25) side panel as intake
GPU: GPU deshroud with 2x fans set to exhaust
- 2x T30, A12x25 or A12x15
- pick thickest option that will fit with your GPU
You could flip all 5x fans too so the airflow pattern looked more like the recommended air build from the manual (top intake, side exhaust). This might result in slightly worse CPU temps when using the C14S. It should be fine for typical ~150 watt AMD CPU configs though - 7600X / 7700X at stock, 7900X / 7950X in 105W eco mode, & 120W X3D chips at stock.
Also, a Silent Wings Pro 4 140 could also be swapped into any of those 5x fan slots to see if more CFM at the expense of lower static pressure helps in any of them. Guessing the Silent Wings Pro 4 140 will be the best option for GPU fans set to exhaust if the T30's won't fit.
CPU: C14S in dual fan mode w/2x A12x25 as intake
GPU TUNNEL: T30 (or A12x25) side panel as intake
GPU: GPU deshroud with 2x fans set to exhaust
- 2x T30, A12x25 or A12x15
- pick thickest option that will fit with your GPU
You could flip all 5x fans too so the airflow pattern looked more like the recommended air build from the manual (top intake, side exhaust). This might result in slightly worse CPU temps when using the C14S. It should be fine for typical ~150 watt AMD CPU configs though - 7600X / 7700X at stock, 7900X / 7950X in 105W eco mode, & 120W X3D chips at stock.
Also, a Silent Wings Pro 4 140 could also be swapped into any of those 5x fan slots to see if more CFM at the expense of lower static pressure helps in any of them. Guessing the Silent Wings Pro 4 140 will be the best option for GPU fans set to exhaust if the T30's won't fit.
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