DAN C4-SFX - old

[Drue]

Chill out mate, your urges don't necessarily have to align with the disposition and workload of Dan. I believe he became a father recently but even so, he doesn't owe you any explanation, these projects take time. Do you really think that comments like yours will help in any way to accelerate the production of the case? Or is it more plausible that you'll get someone pissed? If I was designing this case I wonder if I would be willing to sell it to someone with that demanding attitude.
If you don't want to wait, buy another case, what's the worry? You can also design one yourself or try to write some positive feedback here that will help accelerate development of the C4.

Not demanding anything, and we are all customers of his. It isn't like he is giving us the case for free. I'm not sure why you're coming in trying to be a white knight. I have been discussing this case for months on this thread. I'm excited to see what plans are since right now we are getting very small bits of information at a time.

 

[newtothegame]

Not demanding anything, and we are all customers of his. It isn't like he is giving us the case for free. I'm not sure why you're coming in trying to be a white knight. I have been discussing this case for months on this thread. I'm excited to see what plans are since right now we are getting very small bits of information at a time.

Oh, sorry. I didn't know you had already paid for the case. I haven't, I didn't even know it was possible to do so. Nonetheless if that's the case, I stand by what I've written, demanding things that are out of your reach isn't a good way to get the results you seek and get the community going. Pointing that out is not necessarily trying to be a white knight, it's just common sense, but ok I'll take it.
Now I only need to buy a white horse but the thing is that at the shop they only got the brown ones and I really don't want to buy a brown one just to hold me over, the worse thing is the lack of communication. Everyone is discussing the white horse except the person who has the power to change their color. I'd really like to see what the horseman is thinking when it comes to the timeline he has in his head. November is already around the corner and I'm a white knight without a white horse.

Just a parody, I'll leave it here, although now I kinda want a white horse lol.

 

[JDK]

I love people who complain about other posts or poster's attitudes while adding nothing of value to the topic at hand themself.

@Topic & @Wahaha360
How exactly is NCase/are you involved in the process/production of the C4?

 

[Wahaha360]

I love people who complain about other posts or poster's attitudes while adding nothing of value to the topic at hand themself.

@Topic & @Wahaha360
How exactly is NCase/are you involved in the process/production of the C4?

I’m pretty much involved in production of all product on SFFLAB, and ones coming later.

 

[umberto]

Some of you are right that GPU AIO cooling is not that easy and I think only a tiny amount of customers will use it at the end.

Is it worth to cool the GPU with an AIO?
For cases like the A4 and C4 GPU cooling isn't a problem because the card will get fresh air directly through the panel. Modern cards like the 2 Slot Nvidia GTX 2080 TI FE has well temperatures and acceptable noise under load while still having overclocking heat room. So putting them under water is only interesting for very high OC.

Upgrading your old card with an AIO
For the current GPU generation heatsinks the most cards has very big heatsinks so I don't think an AIO will result in much better temps and less noise. Furthermore upgrading a card with an AIO is not that easy and you have to think about cooling ram and mosfets.
Removing the heatsink from the new FE cards is not that easy and if you are willing to do this you can start thinking about doing a custom loop.

Buying an aftermarket card with AIO preinstalled
This is the only constellation that makes sense for me but you have to deal with much more expansive cards, very long tubing that could look messy inside the case.

Summary:
- very hard to install
- no real advantage in noise and temperatures
- more messy tubes that could be very long because they are made for ATX towers

What do you think?

Hi, i'd like to spend my 2 cents on this.

My specs :
2700x @ 3,8 ghz @ 1,125 vcore, socvoltage 0,85 volt
Asus strix x470-I gaming
G.SKill Trident Z 16GB Kit DDR4-3600 CL16 14-15-15-30-50 tT 3600mhz @ 1.43v
11GB EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC BlackEdition Gaming Aktive PCIe 3.0 x16 + hybrid aio cooler
1x m2 ssd 960 evo 512gb
1x ssd crucial 1tb
NH-L9AM4 + NF-A9x14 + Bitspower BP-FA1208090-BK shroud
Archdemon 450 w
Dan case A4sfx
2x 90mm noctua case fan @ bottom and top front area (below and on top of aio cooler block, both fans push air in direction of the aio cooler block)

I originaly bought the not aio cooler version of the evga 1080ti, but because it became unbearingly loud while playing any games which cause 99% gpu usage i wanted to try the aio mounting kit from evga. My system fan setup (cpu, case and gpu fan) is silent and gpu temperatures are well until a gpu demanding game is started. I reached gpu temperatures up to 80 degres celsius after an hour of gaming. So i was bangled between 2 options: Either have not so well but under 80 c temperures coupled with a tornado like extreme deafening fan noise or temperatures above 84 c, what causes the gpu to thermal throttling resulting in lower performance. I forgot to mind that this was under the circumstances that the gpu side case panel was not builld in and the gpu was downclocked and undervolted with msi afterburner to max turboboost of 1880mhz @ 0.875 volts.
That was a bit frustrating because i mainly game without headphones and enjoy to maintain a medium silent system, which can handle any game i throw at it. Im aware that i tried the impossible: To have a kick a$$ system fitted in the smallest esthetic pc case possible, with the attitude to be dead silent.
But, in the end it was achiveable !

Disassembling the old cooler and mounting the new + cleaning gpu die and renewing thermal paste (Arctic 4) took me like 2 hours.

I replaced the stock aio fan with the Corsair ML120 Pro PC, because it is more silent and has more cooling power.

Mister Dondan mentioned the tubes beeing maybe uncomfortable long for the A4sfx. Lucky me, the evga aio fits in perfect so the gpu side panel can be closed.

The result appeals me mucho. The gpu temperature hits now green values, even after 6+ hour session of gaming. For the comfort, the tornado is gone and only a little whisper is left.

For me it is not understandable how u can say that the gpu fan can suck fresh cool air through the side panels, because my evga 1080ti did
not. Even with undervolting and side panel open it became unbearable loud @ stock cooler in the A4-sfx.

My opinion is, a gpu aio has deserved it to be an mentionable option to be build in; in the C4-sfx.

 

[david.giessing]

Hi, i'd like to spend my 2 cents on this.

My specs :
2700x @ 3,8 ghz @ 1,125 vcore, socvoltage 0,85 volt
Asus strixx x470-I gaming
2x G.SKill Trident Z 16GB Kit DDR4-3600 CL16 14-15-15-30-50 tT 3600mhz @ 1.43v
11GB EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC BlackEdition Gaming Aktiv PCIe 3.0 x16 + hybrid aio cooler
1x m2 ssd 960 evo 512gb
1x ssd crucial 1tb
NH-L9AM4 + NF-A9x14 + Bitspower BP-FA1208090-BK shroud
Archdemon 450 w
Dan case A4sfx
2x 120mm fan @ bottom and top front area (below and on top of aio cooler block, both fans push air in direction of the aio cooler block)

I originaly bought the not aio cooler version of the evga 1080ti, but because it became unbearingly loud while playing any games which cause 99% gpu usage i wanted to try the aio mounting kit from evga. My system fan setup (cpu, case and gpu fan) is silent and gpu temperatures are well until a gpu demanding game is started. I reached gpu temperatures up to 80 degres celsius after an hour of gaming. So i was bangled between 2 options: Either have not so well but under 80 c temperures coupled with a tornado like extreme deafening fan noise or temperatures above 84 c, what causes the gpu to thermal throttling resulting in lower performance. I forgot to mind that this was under the circumstances that the gpu side case panel was not builld in and the gpu was downclocked and undervolted with msi afterburner to max turboboost of 1880mhz @ 0.875 volts.
That was a bit frustrating because i mainly game without headphones and enjoy to maintain a medium silent system, which can handle any game i throw at it. Im aware that i tried the impossible: To have a kick a$$ system fitted in the smallest esthetic pc case possible, with the attitude to be dead silent.
But, in the end it was achiveable !

Disassembling the old cooler and mounting the new + cleaning gpu die and renewing thermal paste (Arctic 4) took me like 2 hours.

I replaced the stock aio fan with the Corsair ML120 Pro PC, because it is more silent and has more cooling power.

Mister Dondan mentioned the tubes beeing maybe uncomfortable long for the A4sfx. Lucky me, the evga aio fits in perfect so the gpu side panel can be closed.

The result appeals me mucho. The gpu temperature hits now green values, even after 6+ hour session of gaming. For the comfort, the tornado is gone and only a little whisper is left.

For me it is not understandable how u can say that the gpu fan can suck fresh cool air through the side panels, because my evga 1080ti did
not. Even with undervolting and side panel open it became unbearable loud @ stock cooler in the A4-sfx.

My opinion is, a gpu aio has deserved it to be an mentionable option to be build in, in the C4-sfx.

This is exactly what I was thinking! Thank you for bringing an end to all the guessing!

 

[dondan]

Maybe some of you wonder if there is any progress in thes project. And I can say yes it is. Currently I validating some design and layout concepts that comes in my mind. I know some of you will think this is just waste of time and I should move with the current design in production - yes maybe but I have no time pressure and I like to evaluate this concept.

The main idea behind this new concept is a more elegant look of the case that is more minimalistic/simple. All designs features a USB-Type C and 2x USB 3.0 at the front and a rotateable design. For every designs the window panel will be optional.

Scyscraper-Layout:
The two systems on the left are scyscraper style cases, like the Phantek Shift or Corsair One. The hardwarelyout is the same of the C4 but rotated 90°. The main difference is the radiator location. For the C4 it is inside the case for this design only the fans are inside the case, the radiator can be piggybacked over the backside. This will allow to use very thick radiators. Also a usage without radiators is possible. The bigger version (410x205x127 = 10.6L) will have support for 360mm radiators, while the smaller version (360x205x127 = 9,3L) supports 240mm radiators or 2x 120mm radiatos. There will be holes on the backside of the case to route cables to the outside.

Classic-Layout
The right system is just the new outer design used on the current hardware layout of the C4-SFX. The dimensions will be 255x323x130 = 10.7L

PS: Sorry for only showing SketchUp design study if I find the time I will do some more realistic renderings.

 

[Alexander]

The images show up as broken for me @dondan.

Edit: Can see them now!

 

[Nanook]

Maybe some of you wonder if there is any progress in thes project. And I can say yes it is. Currently I validating some design and layout concepts that comes in my mind. I know some of you will think this is just waste of time and I should move with the current design in production - yes maybe but I have no time pressure and I like to evaluate this concept.

The main idea behind this new concept is a more elegant look of the case that is more minimalistic/simple. All designs features a USB-Type C and 2x USB 3.0 at the front and a rotateable design. For every designs the window panel will be optional.

Scyscraper-Layout:
The two systems on the left are scyscraper style cases, like the Phantek Shift or Corsair One. The hardwarelyout is the same of the C4 but rotated 90°. The main difference is the radiator location. For the C4 it is inside the case for this design only the fans are inside the case, the radiator can be piggybacked over the backside. This will allow to use very thick radiators. Also a usage without radiators is possible. The bigger version (410x205x127 = 10.6L) will have support for 360mm radiators, while the smaller version (360x205x127 = 9,3L) supports 240mm radiators or 2x 120mm radiatos. There will be holes on the backside of the case to route cables to the outside.

Classic-Layout
The right system is just the new outer design used on the current hardware layout of the C4-SFX. The dimensions will be 255x323x130 = 10.7L

PS: Sorry for only showing SketchUp design study if I find the time I will do some more realistic renderings.

I love this. Can you show a top view to show off how small the footprint can be in contrast to the C4 ?

 

[Nasp]

I see the images just fine, but I would like to see some accurate renderings before making a final judgement.

I'm not sure I like the rad being on the outside of the case, but I do find the idea of using a 360mm rad in a SFF case intriguing.

The design is a bit plain and boring, in my opinion, but again, I'll reserve final judgement until I see more accurate renderings.

 

[chairmanmeow]

The design is a bit plain and boring, in my opinion, but again, I'll reserve final judgement until I see more accurate renderings.

I agree. This new concept is supposed to be "a more elegant look...that is more minimalistic/simple." It is actually the opposite.

The initial design's most striking visual elements were a clean, front fascia and minimal geometry. For example, the I/O did not break the visual flow of the front panel because it was on the side. The the front panel was one piece. There were logical transitions from the front to side panels. And the top panel had a simple, smooth exterior.

The new design disposes of the elegance of the front fascia and geometry. For instance, the I/O now suddenly appears on top, interrupting the clean flow of the front panel. The front panel is now (visually-speaking) an obnoxious two pieces. The once-logical transitions from front to side panels is now an obtrusive, wraparound front panel. And the top panel has traded simplicity for the jagged business of an industrial ventilation shaft.

I appreciate all of @dondan 's work and do not want to sound too critical. This new design looks like an attempt to incorporate the average community-member's feedback. But it ends up being exactly that: average.

 

[Hudbox]

I'm not a fan of tall cases as I prefer the more classic look, but to really judge these new ideas; renders would really help if you have the time.

At present the original concept is my preferred option, having the IO on the side keeps the front of the case clean.

 

[DaveMan20]

I prefer the original c4 design. I think this new design looks less elegant and I don't like the radiator on the outside.

 

[SashaLag]

I agree. This new concept is supposed to be "a more elegant look...that is more minimalistic/simple." It is actually the opposite.

The initial design's most striking visual elements were a clean, front fascia and minimal geometry. For example, the I/O did not break the visual flow of the front panel because it was on the side. The the front panel was one piece. There were logical transitions from the front to side panels. And the top panel had a simple, smooth exterior.

The new design disposes of the elegance of the front fascia and geometry. For instance, the I/O now suddenly appears on top, interrupting the clean flow of the front panel. The front panel is now (visually-speaking) an obnoxious two pieces. The once-logical transitions from front to side panels is now an obtrusive, wraparound front panel. And the top panel has traded simplicity for the jagged business of an industrial ventilation shaft.

I appreciate all of @dondan 's work and do not want to sound too critical. This new design looks like an attempt to incorporate the average community-member's feedback. But it ends up being exactly that: average.

agree.. don't know if it is also because of the unappealing aestetichs of sketchup... But I really don't like those concepts... Plus, a radiator outside a case would be awesome to "fake" smaller volume value for an AIO oriented case, but it would be really easy to damage the radiator... Fins are unprotected so, what is the point of a case?

 

[newtothegame]

Maybe it's because I'm becoming a cynical bastard as I age but, I think Dan just trolled everyone big time.

I'm gonna edit this in case I might be completely wrong (sorry, I thought the blue color of the typeface was indicative of Dan messing with us). Anyway, any update is much welcomed and I honestly think it's great to have time to juggle around with different concepts. I would say that if Dan is pursuing an elegant and simple look, he probably knows the original design renders are a better expression of those ideals.
That being said, I'm not a fan of Scyscraper-style layouts so I'm can't be the one to give feedback on that design as it's not meant for my needs or taste. For the new Classic-Layout I thought the design was hinting towards "top-hat" modularity as with the Ghost, but it seems I was mistaken. If there's no modular functionality then I'd say that the visual compartmentalisation of the front IO is not really necessary. Having the radiator protruding outside I think it's great, I'd love to see a more detailed render. Keep it up with the conceptualisation!

 

[Tazpr]

*SNIP*

Love the designs Dan!
I'd love to see more renders of the tall boy with 360mm radiator support and how the internal layout for that works!
I once modded a Thermaltake Core G3 to take a 360mm radiator with an ITX board and full size GPU and loved it but wanted a more elegant solution and this may just be it!

With the taller option, what kind of GPU size restrictions will there be? Or will it be more like a vertical Sandwich layout with bottom mounted PSU and a large front compartment for radiators?
And does the taller case allow for full size pump/res combos to be mounted below the motherboard?

If I had any constructive feedback on these designs it would be similar to the above, the IO on the front with the big power button does detract slightly from the overall design. Could you hide them on the side behind a mechanism or is that going to intrude too much on front IO?

Again, and I'm not saying this to evoke another heated debate on front IO, but I think if you are trying to design a case with 360mm radiator support in the front, that's already a lot of height requirements, since the IO will intrude on that space, you are adding another 20-30mm in height to the case to house the IO cable and mounts which would add a decent amount to the overall case volume.

I think if you are doing IO on this design, top mounted IO with 90 degree connectors to make it as low profile as possible, with a completely clean front panel would be the best option in my opinion.

EDIT: If the radiators are only supported externally I'm not sure I'm as keen, I'd rather just have a bigger case than have the radiator on the outside, unless that was just an illustration with the panel off to show how it would mount?

 

[Ionrent]

...

 

[chinyang]

the original design preserves the minimalist and sleek design, especially with front clean front panel with I/O on the side

how much impact on airflow with this new top cover design?

tower style with rads outside seems to be a big change from the original design... though cooling will likely be excellent but the sleek design will lost with rads out

 

[chairmanmeow]

Putting aside the visual aspects of the new design, I agree that the skyscraper design is kind of cool. Even the exterior radiator concept is kind of cool. However, the "coolness" of these concepts strongly suggests that they should be made into a separate case. Making a separate, skyscraper product line will also allow dondan to "[expand his] product portfolio."

With the C4-SFX I like to expanse my product portfolio so it will be available next to the A4-SFX.

Plus, it could be called something schnazzy, like the T4-SFX (after "turm," the german for tower).

 

[ToutNoir]

Wow, that's way different from the original concept.

First, I'm a big fan of tower-shaped cases. I was seriously thinking about building one myself 2-3 years ago. The only thing I wasn't happy with was cables coming out on top (ugly IMO) or proper heat circulation if the GPU was put in the reverse way (cables on bottom, so heat more or less staying in the GPU).
I'd like to see how you can sort out these issues.

Another point, as said above, is the I/O being on the front panel. I love how slick is the first iteration of the C4... I don't find this in those new renderings.

Anyway, @dondan, tell us more