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DAN C4-SFX - old
- Thread starter dondan
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a 240mm radiator for your cpu in a <11L case is too much of a compromise for you? I don't understand what your ideal setup is. If its a 240mm radiator for cpu and gpu, why not just get a Ghost S1 with 2 tophats, or even a cerberus? Honestly at that point doesn't an NZXT H200i kind of fit the bill for you, including more drive support?
I personally think the current iteration of the C4 has a good balance of compromises, compatibility, and size - any further changes will be 1 step forward 2 steps back imo.
This is an interesting point. How is it that something so novel and unique at the time of inception has become a copycat? This thread was only created ~5 months after the Ghost S1 thread. Well, I personally blame Dan's indecisiveness... not to say that I don't appreciate all of the work he does, and also understand he's been very busy with a new family and all, but I wouldn't be surprised if this project doesn't come to fruition and actually land on people's doors till 2020. At some point a designer has to make a decision, whether it's artistic or functional.
This timeline may be wrong as I am basically venting... first Side IO/Top IO, different case feet, 2slot vs 2.5slot card, etc etc. OK, community feedback is good I guess, and finally some prototypes have arrived! Then what happens? The case design is almost scrapped in favor of multiple other tower designs, radiator configurations etc, stopped by nearly everyone in the thread asking for the original back. Time passes and the C4 is changed A4 internal design (compromising design philosophy for compatibility), and now we are back to debating the concept of 240 vs 480 rad compatibility... what was even the point of the prototype?
To make some sense of these ramblings, @dondan, ultimately I wouldn't even be mad if at this point you said something along the lines of "I'm sticking with 2x240 radiator compatibility, and it loses 2.5 slot compatibility." It's likely I'd still buy it because the design of the case is so damn eye catching anyways... but just compare the original design to today's. Overall I think that the longer this design phase stagnates, the more diluted the core strengths of the C4 will become in the name of compatibility and pleasing the most people. People who might I add are very picky enthusiasts, not afraid to vocalize their opinions on the design even if they are small trivial details. You are the designer and know best when it comes to making cases.
So, where else do you want to go with the C4, Dan? At what point do you say, "I'm happy with this design"?
Anyways, I'd like to reiterate that I really do appreciate the hard work on this project, and like I said, I will almost certainly be buying this case. Hopefully this post wasn't too grating but I'm just frustrated.
It seems to me that Dan has been fairly clear.
Dan is working on the single 240mm design. He had some qualms with the previous designs, in particular the I/O placement, the side panel attachment, the feet, and the bottom cut out. Based on his posts over the last few weeks it seems like he has made decisions already on most of if not all of these problems. He is actively working on the CAD and has shown quick renders of the current case design and has expressed that Lian Li is happy to work with him on a new round of prototypes. He has expressed interest in having a poll on interior layout.
@papsicleboy
You are right since the last prototype (May 2018) the progress is very low. The last month i had a lot of work with my family. But since Dec. 2018 I am back on track and working on finalice the C4 protoype with direct cooled single 240 rad. The progress speed is still not on the same level as for the A4 but the work on C4 CAD is nearly done.
Currently I work on:
I don't like to rush on these parts to make them simple and from a construction/design point as good as possible.
I am very happy with the current CAD drawing, it looks good it is well design. Yes it is 0,4L more in volume than the initial C4 sample but the same happend for the A4. Many project that try to make it as small as possible will have the problem that there is no room for cable routing and my goal is it to give you the best assembly experience. Furthermore the construction will be very solid. On many projects i see the problem of not stiff parts so if you give force on these parts they will be irreversible bend. This will not happen on the C4.
The only problem for the C4 in the current state is, that I think it is not such as uniq as the A4-SFX was and is. So we have many other SFF projects that comes with single 240 rad support. Yes the desing is uniq but does it make this case so murch more better as the Ghost? I think every designer will have this problem if the first product was such an success. A dual 240 rad case has in my mind exactly this feature. It is extreamly uniq will featuring a nice look, but I made the experience that the community don't see/need the advantages.
As I said I will do more research on the dual rad system with a prototype and will start with Kickstarter on the single rad system. If I am happy with the dual rad prototype I will add it as an third product in my portfolio or I will interchange it with the singl radiator version in the next years.
Aslo I can't give a Kickstarter release date because there is a lot of work to do. It comes if it is done.
You are right since the last prototype (May 2018) the progress is very low. The last month i had a lot of work with my family. But since Dec. 2018 I am back on track and working on finalice the C4 protoype with direct cooled single 240 rad. The progress speed is still not on the same level as for the A4 but the work on C4 CAD is nearly done.
Currently I work on:
- the side panel attaching mechanismen slide in vs push pin
- the window kit attachmend magnetic vs screws
- a cover plate for the PSU that covers the complete PSU wire tree under the psu so it will not hang inside the fans if you don't use ZIP ties and generates a more clean look of the interior.
I don't like to rush on these parts to make them simple and from a construction/design point as good as possible.
I am very happy with the current CAD drawing, it looks good it is well design. Yes it is 0,4L more in volume than the initial C4 sample but the same happend for the A4. Many project that try to make it as small as possible will have the problem that there is no room for cable routing and my goal is it to give you the best assembly experience. Furthermore the construction will be very solid. On many projects i see the problem of not stiff parts so if you give force on these parts they will be irreversible bend. This will not happen on the C4.
The only problem for the C4 in the current state is, that I think it is not such as uniq as the A4-SFX was and is. So we have many other SFF projects that comes with single 240 rad support. Yes the desing is uniq but does it make this case so murch more better as the Ghost? I think every designer will have this problem if the first product was such an success. A dual 240 rad case has in my mind exactly this feature. It is extreamly uniq will featuring a nice look, but I made the experience that the community don't see/need the advantages.
As I said I will do more research on the dual rad system with a prototype and will start with Kickstarter on the single rad system. If I am happy with the dual rad prototype I will add it as an third product in my portfolio or I will interchange it with the singl radiator version in the next years.
Aslo I can't give a Kickstarter release date because there is a lot of work to do. It comes if it is done.
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Hi Dan,
my opinion on the things you currently work on: slide in or push pin are both fine for me. Is magnetic attachment for the window kit safe? As we are talking a SFF case here, I suppose many people will want to travel with it so keep that in mind. The cover plate/cage sounds like a good idea!
I am very happy that you will kickstart the single rad and then continue your work on the dual rad case. I think there are two different markets here: the single rad is for the people that loved the A4 and wished for more rad space and with the dual rads you can address another group of enthusiasts that currently stay away from SFF pcs as their cooling capabilities are not sufficient for them.
my opinion on the things you currently work on: slide in or push pin are both fine for me. Is magnetic attachment for the window kit safe? As we are talking a SFF case here, I suppose many people will want to travel with it so keep that in mind. The cover plate/cage sounds like a good idea!
I am very happy that you will kickstart the single rad and then continue your work on the dual rad case. I think there are two different markets here: the single rad is for the people that loved the A4 and wished for more rad space and with the dual rads you can address another group of enthusiasts that currently stay away from SFF pcs as their cooling capabilities are not sufficient for them.
@david.giessing No the magnetic system isn't final but if i go this route I will make sure that they will stay in place. Maybe it would be better to use the vented metal side panels on the case while traveling because also glass can get scratches.
My plan is to use very thin round magnets somthing like diameter 8mm and 1.5mm thickness. These magnets will be glued to the glass panel. Aluminum is not magnetic so I will stamp in holes with the same size in the inner chassis and attach a piece of steal behind it. Arround the magnets there will be a very thin piece of rubber, fabric or neoprene so the glass has no direct contact to the inner chassis. As I now from fridge magnets they are very strong so I think we can get a very good Connection.
My plan is to use very thin round magnets somthing like diameter 8mm and 1.5mm thickness. These magnets will be glued to the glass panel. Aluminum is not magnetic so I will stamp in holes with the same size in the inner chassis and attach a piece of steal behind it. Arround the magnets there will be a very thin piece of rubber, fabric or neoprene so the glass has no direct contact to the inner chassis. As I now from fridge magnets they are very strong so I think we can get a very good Connection.
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So does this mean no more dual 120mm rad support? It would be a shame to see that feature removed since it provides more flexibility and options for builds. Please keep the original support for dual 120 rads.
Definitely need a secure case! One of the perks of having an SFF case is traveling with it.
That's exactly why I chose to skip the Ghost. It's side panels are bendable and tophats aren't very secure.
I mean don't get me wrong it looks gorgeous and if I wasn't traveling I'd probably buy it for less "desk space".
@omega24 It will also support dual 120mm AIO I never said I will drop that feature.
@AfterInfinity Again if you travel use the default configuration wit metal side panels.
@gotcha43 It will be brushed anodized. Sandblasted anodized is too expansive outside from China.
@AfterInfinity Again if you travel use the default configuration wit metal side panels.
@gotcha43 It will be brushed anodized. Sandblasted anodized is too expansive outside from China.
too bad, thanks anyways.
I know brushed Lian Li cases as I had a Lian Li V1010 10 years ago, but i need a sandblasted finish for my racing rig.
As a german, I‘d like to support our local brands.
Maybe next time.
I like the clean Look of your C4. A4 is a Little too small for me...
I know brushed Lian Li cases as I had a Lian Li V1010 10 years ago, but i need a sandblasted finish for my racing rig.
As a german, I‘d like to support our local brands.
Maybe next time.
I like the clean Look of your C4. A4 is a Little too small for me...
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@dondan would you please consider plain anodized panels instead of brushed panels? the brushed texture attracts fingerprints easily and is terribly difficult to get rid of once it's apparent on the surface.
that would work on plain anodized panels but for the most part, when brushed aluminium are exposed to body oil, etc, it would eat into the texture of the brushed aluminium itself. if you are skeptical, you may try it yourself on a brushed aluminium panel and leave the fingerprints on it overnight. it would be almost impossible to remove it without leaving a visible imprint behind.
I believe you. Anodizing would definitely increase the finishing quality, and cost. I'm all for it personally.
To give you some updates on the development progress. Here is CAD screenshot. Maybe you can see some new internal features.
What's it looking like the gpu support is going to be in terms of dimensions?To give you some updates on the development progress. Here is CAD screenshot. Maybe you can see some new internal features.
That PSU cover with an angle to route the cables, you sir did a such a beautiful designs, hats off.To give you some updates on the development progress. Here is CAD screenshot. Maybe you can see some new internal features.
Congratulations on your new family and keep forward with your vision, thus far your work is inspiring in many ways and I think you choice of build is the appropiate one, you can never aim to please everyone.
To give you some updates on the development progress. Here is CAD screenshot. Maybe you can see some new internal features.
Great to see the CAD screenshot. I'm really looking forward to building my next PC into this towards the end of the year.
I still think the vented side panel is the best choice for me. Although, it's almost a shame not to choose the window kit to show how much effort goes into designing a case that can squeeze a powerful PC into such a small space.
I do plan on making a video to document my whole build, so that will have to do.
I still think the vented side panel is the best choice for me. Although, it's almost a shame not to choose the window kit to show how much effort goes into designing a case that can squeeze a powerful PC into such a small space.
I do plan on making a video to document my whole build, so that will have to do.
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