DAN C4-SFX - old

[david.giessing]

If you don't make a custom loop, AiO solutions for GPUs are rather limited anyway, aren't they (serious question, I am new to water cooling)?

You wouldn't use an AIO on GPUs just like on CPUs. You usually go for one of the hybrid cards that cool the GPU chip with an AIO and peripheral components with a blower style fan.

 

[dondan]

Some of you are right that GPU AIO cooling is not that easy and I think only a tiny amount of customers will use it at the end.

Is it worth to cool the GPU with an AIO?
For cases like the A4 and C4 GPU cooling isn't a problem because the card will get fresh air directly through the panel. Modern cards like the 2 Slot Nvidia GTX 2080 TI FE has well temperatures and acceptable noise under load while still having overclocking heat room. So putting them under water is only interesting for very high OC.

Upgrading your old card with an AIO
For the current GPU generation heatsinks the most cards has very big heatsinks so I don't think an AIO will result in much better temps and less noise. Furthermore upgrading a card with an AIO is not that easy and you have to think about cooling ram and mosfets.
Removing the heatsink from the new FE cards is not that easy and if you are willing to do this you can start thinking about doing a custom loop.

Buying an aftermarket card with AIO preinstalled
This is the only constellation that makes sense for me but you have to deal with much more expansive cards, very long tubing that could look messy inside the case.

Summary:
- very hard to install
- no real advantage in noise and temperatures
- more messy tubes that could be very long because they are made for ATX towers

What do you think?

 

[david.giessing]

Some of you are right that GPU AIO cooling is not that easy and I think only a tiny amount of customers will use it at the end.

Is it worth to cool the GPU with an AIO?
For cases like the A4 and C4 GPU cooling isn't a problem because the card will get fresh air directly through the panel. Modern cards like the 2 Slot Nvidia GTX 2080 TI FE has well temperatures and acceptable noise under load while still having overclocking heat room. So putting them under water is only interesting for very high OC.

Upgrading your old card with an AIO
For the current GPU generation heatsinks the most cards has very big heatsinks so I don't think an AIO will result in much better temps and less noise. Furthermore upgrading a card with an AIO is not that easy and you have to think about cooling ram and mosfets.
Removing the heatsink from the new FE cards is not that easy and if you are willing to do this you can start thinking about doing a custom loop.

Buying an aftermarket card with AIO preinstalled
This is the only constellation that makes sense for me but you have to deal with much more expansive cards, very long tubing that could look messy inside the case.

Summary:
- very hard to install
- no real advantage in noise and temperatures
- more messy tubes that could be very long because they are made for ATX towers

What do you think?

I personally do not have experiences with hybrid cards but I have heard good things about them. I think especially in a TG version they will be more or less the only valid option for cooling as the air cooled cards will starve for air when sandwhiched against a TG panel. I could also imagine that especially in small formfactor cases the cooling will be better with a hybrid card. For the non TG version the points of messy tubes is invalid as you will not see them anyway. Hybrid is also the only way to keep the cards on a 2 slot footprint. I really do see the hybrid cards as one of the best options for your case here and if the discussion is still about the screws there is no way you should sacrifice the 2x 120 option for that.

 

[optimumtech]

For cases like the A4 and C4 GPU cooling isn't a problem because the card will get fresh air directly through the panel. Modern cards like the 2 Slot Nvidia GTX 2080 TI FE has well temperatures and acceptable noise under load while still having overclocking heat room. So putting them under water is only interesting for very high OC.

I definitely agree that a very small amount of users will actually do a dual AIO build in the C4, but it is something that I see here in there in the Ncase M1. It comes down to what benefit there is to removing the support, are the screws really that bad?

Also, how is the GPU going to get fresh air through a tempered glass side panel?
Have you tested GPU thermals with panel on / off with your current prototypes?

 

[dondan]

Here are the tests:

Here are the preview results of the first test with the C4-SFX.


Testsetup:

• Ryzen 7 1700 @ default clock
• Asus Strix B350-I
• Nvidia Titan X (Pascal)
• 32GB DDR4
• Corsair 450 SFX
• Asetek 120mm AIO (27mm Radiator)
• 2x Noctua NF-A12x25

I used Prime95 (26.6) 8K run for max CPU load and Valley Benchmark 2.5K simultaneous. The case fans spin at 100%.


Radiator on Top

---------------------------------------CPU--------GPU Clock----GPU FAN----GPU temp-----Room
FAN push out - open------------50 °C------max 1800------2350 rpm------82 °C------25 °C
FAN push out - vented----------50 °C------max 1780------2380 rpm------82 °C------25 °C
FAN push out - Window--------52 °C------max 1780------2410 rpm------83 °C------25 °C
FAN suck in - open--------------50 °C------max 1800------2350 rpm------81 °C------25 °C
FAN suck in - vented------------50 °C------max 1780------2380 rpm------82 °C------25 °C
FAN suck in - Window----------52 °C------max 1780------2410 rpm------82 °C------25 °C


Radiator on Bottom

----------------------------------------CPU--------GPU Clock----GPU FAN----GPU temp-----Room
FAN push out - open-------------54 °C------max 1780------2380 rpm------82 °C------25 °C
FAN push out - vented-----------56 °C------max 1780------2400 rpm------82 °C------25 °C
FAN push out - Window---------57 °C------max 1780------2430 rpm------83 °C------25 °C
FAN suck in - open---------------52 °C------max 1780------2380 rpm------82 °C------25 °C
FAN suck in - vented-------------56 °C------max 1780------2410 rpm------83 °C------25 °C
FAN suck in - Window-----------56 °C------max 1780------2410 rpm------83 °C------25 °C

The GPU will not get fresh air through the Window Kit but as you know there are two 120mm fans in the bottom or top side (depends on your use-cases) of the case. These fan's are able to exchange the air inside the case very quick.




For the scew topic:

Scews on the top side and bottom are ok in my opinion but for the side panel it does not look good. For the Window kit I don't have a problem with them, because there is no other way ( I am not a fan of gluen glass on metal sheets or using magnetic stuff) and I use thumb scews but for the metal side panels I think it would be better to use clips or slide in.

 

[optimumtech]

Hmmm, I guess it's going to be purely subjective then. I personally don't mind them. Especially black screws on a black panel. For the silver panels it might look worse.
So the current problem is that there's no room for the push pins on the frame when using dual 120mm radiators?

 

[ToutNoir]

1/ please keep 2x120 mm AIO support
2/ I don't use USB-C or audio jack on front

 

[ToutNoir]

I've just read your debate on having an AIO on a GPU. A French guy does great job on manufacturing small rads to cool GPU components: https://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/Overc...g/workblog-cooling-version-sujet_284874_1.htm

I'm planning to go this way with the C4 actually.

 

[Kwestionable]

Simply having the option adds a lot of flexibility to the product and probably isn't worth removing just for a couple screws. I personally might be doing a GPU AIO because I just found out the blower fan on my GPU has a bad bearing (and bad thermals anyways).

 

[Etz]

1) No need for 2x120, 1x240 would suffice
2) I have separate Audio Interface so I don't care about Audio.

 

[RockZors]

Hi everyone,

I have two questions for you:

1) Is it worth dropping 2x 120mm AIO support for not seeing screws on the side panel?
2) What do you prefer USB Typ-C or Audio+Microphone?

I would say let do what we can to increase build options so keep 2x120

Type c, headphones can go in the back.

 

[Luvis]

Here are the tests:



The GPU will not get fresh air through the Window Kit but as you know there are two 120mm fans in the bottom or top side (depends on your use-cases) of the case. These fan's are able to exchange the air inside the case very quick.




For the scew topic:

Scews on the top side and bottom are ok in my opinion but for the side panel it does not look good. For the Window kit I don't have a problem with them, because there is no other way ( I am not a fan of gluen glass on metal sheets or using magnetic stuff) and I use thumb scews but for the metal side panels I think it would be better to use clips or slide in.

TRUE

 

[RaDus]

Hi everyone,

I have two questions for you:

1) Is it worth dropping 2x 120mm AIO support for not seeing screws on the side panel?
2) What do you prefer USB Typ-C or Audio+Microphone?

1) IMO no. 2x 120mm AIO is exactly why I'm interested in this case.
2) USB-C. By far the more practical and aesthetic solution

 

[Woxys]

Hi everyone,

I have two questions for you:

1) Is it worth dropping 2x 120mm AIO support for not seeing screws on the side panel?
2) What do you prefer USB Typ-C or Audio+Microphone?

1. No screws
2. USB Type C

 

[dondan]

1) IMO no. 2x 120mm AIO is exactly why I'm interested in this case.

For what hardware do you plan to use the two 120mm AIOs?

 

[Arrandale]

GPU and CPU Cooling i guess? Using a Hybrid GPU or one of these NZXT Adapters.

 

[sverebom]

And what do you hope to achieve by installing a 120mm AiO for the GPU? A radiator only makes sense if you can increase the cooling surface and the amount of fans. With a 120mm radiator and inside a small case like the C4 you won't be able to achieve that. Any full-size dual-slot video card will have a larger cooling surface and more fans than any 120mm-AiO that you can fit inside the C4.

 

[Luvis]

1) IMO no. 2x 120mm AIO is exactly why I'm interested in this case.
2) USB-C. By far the more practical and aesthetic solution

I tried the 120mm AIO on a gtx 1070 fe. The result only got worse. Not all aios are better than air cooling, 120mm AIO could not even handle a gtx 1070. There is a reason why graphics card do not use AIO instead of triple or dual fans design, the giant heat shink is really something.

 

[RaDus]

For what hardware do you plan to use the two 120mm AIOs?

1st 120mm AIO: Ryzen 2400G
2nd 120mm AIO: RX 580

On the surface it might not make sense slapping on AIOs, but I'm not doing it for the temperature; silence is my goal and the AIO provides enough "resistance" for temperature changes, so that fans won't sporadically spin up and down. It also lets me slap on some very silent fans.

 

[HooglyBoogly]

I tried the 120mm AIO on a gtx 1070 fe. The result only got worse. Not all aios are better than air cooling, 120mm AIO could not even handle a gtx 1070. There is a reason why graphics card do not use AIO instead of triple or dual fans design, the giant heat shink is really something.

I've had the opposite experience. My R9 390 was MUCH quieter and cooler when I put an AIO on it, and that's usually people's experience. GPUs are generally easier to cool than CPUs for the same wattage.