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Stalled Winter One -- 15.6L SFF case, 3090 Support, 3-slot GPUs, dual 280mm radiators, CFD Optimized Design
- Thread starter WinterCharm
- Start date
Slim backplate is TBD per the product page. I also got the same answer when they responded to my question regarding ETA via Twitter. Based on the wording, it sounds like they haven't committed to making it: "The slim is only really for extremely small SFF builds that can't fit a backplate, if the demands exist."
Have you considered the use of a HDPLEX PSU System in place of a conventional SFX PSU?
The 400W version may well fit and allow plenty of space for a pump/tube res in the yellow area...
Yeah. Just keep in mind the above image is from v10 (the Beta units). With the updates to the central spine, that yellow area now has a beam running through the middle of it, with holes for cable management.
A Pump / Res System with some way to bridge that gap (like having a res above (any shape), and a short tube to connect to a pump below) would be a good approach to handling the central spine, or just having a thinner tube res, or just having a pump that's fed properly from the top.
Also, I was looking at other pump options, and the Koolance 420 caught my eye for Winter One -- At a little less flow rate than a D5 pump (3GPM on the K420 vs 4GPM from a D5), but a lot more pressure (5.75mH2O on the K420 vs 3.5mH2O on the D5). It's smaller but *much* better for restrictive loops, compared to the D5. It's also much smaller than a D5, and easier to incorporate into a build at 48 x 48 x 69mm. Not sure about the noise profile, so I'll look for some more reviews. Figured I'd bring it up, since the pump choice discussion is taking place right now.
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Also, expect a Kickstarter Update with Airflow / Thermals / Noise this Sunday or Early Monday, since the perf panels were not available in the Beta. I've posted a few teasers, but I wanted to make an official update around it. And if I've got time later tonight, I'll go into a bit more detail on the watercooling stuff that was requested.
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@WinterCharm i have the pmp420 from koolance. i can give it a whirl when the rest of my water-cooling gear arrives.
A long time ago, Martin had tested the PMP-500.Yeah. Just keep in mind the above image is from v10 (the Beta units). With the updates to the central spine, that yellow area now has a beam running through the middle of it, with holes for cable management.
A Pump / Res System with some way to bridge that gap (like having a res above (any shape), and a short tube to connect to a pump below) would be a good approach to handling the central spine, or just having a thinner tube res, or just having a pump that's fed properly from the top.
Also, I was looking at other pump options, and the Koolance 420 caught my eye for Winter One -- At a little less flow rate than a D5 pump (3GPM on the K420 vs 4GPM from a D5), but a lot more pressure (5.75mH2O on the K420 vs 3.5mH2O on the D5). It's smaller but *much* better for restrictive loops, compared to the D5. It's also much smaller than a D5, and easier to incorporate into a build at 48 x 48 x 69mm. Not sure about the noise profile, so I'll look for some more reviews. Figured I'd bring it up, since the pump choice discussion is taking place right now.
-------------------
Also, expect a Kickstarter Update with Airflow / Thermals / Noise this Sunday, since the perf panels were not available in the Beta. I've posted a few teasers, but I wanted to make an official update around it. And if I've got time later tonight, I'll go into a bit more detail on the watercooling stuff that was requested.
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I always wonder about the problem of flow restriction; looking in different directions, I found by chance these 280 mm radiators. I think this information may be useful for those who have not yet bought radiators. Personally, I have no knowledge of Darkside at all and only the 240 are available at Highdow.nl.
Dazmode doesn't deliver in France.
Dazmode doesn't deliver in France.
I really don't think you'll have any issues with 2x gts 280s, cpu and gpu blocks... as long as you're using a D5 or DDC.
I was waiting for the AMD bracket to test my WB CPU, it arrived this morning, I will test it with the HWL and my DDC. I will soon receive the Protium top for a D5 that I will test later.
According to a friend who bought the same one, it is much more restrictive than the HeatKiller IV PRO.
Which waterblock are you using for your CPU?
I have been in transition stages the last few weeks. One test was a single D5 with CPU (optimus foundation) + GPU (heatkiller v 3090) and 360 mm Hardware Labs extreme series. With D5 at 100%, flow rate was ~230 lph. Turning the D5 down to ~70% was still satisfactory with noise and performance.
A DDC should provide even more flow - but you must keep it cool.
(
Just calling this out as potentially an outdated view.
My view and experience is modern PWM DDC's (EK 3.2) do not get hot and will not require heatsinks or even cooling.
That's a good point. Do you run your DDCs at or near 100%?
I would prefer a D5 whenever possible, but I do have a couple DDCs in my spares box. I don't have any long-term reliability info on those though.
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that 280 you linked looks a lot like the bykski or the primochill slim 280. i wonder how they stack up.
I run it around 30-40% in my T1 on an aquanaut.
I think historically the non-PWM's used to get hot and burn out. You can even get PWM PCB boards to swap out your old ones.... (Not advocating as never used them): https://www.diyinhk.com/shop/ddc-pump/41-laing-ddc-pump-18w-repair-pcb-wled-smd-soldered-mcp355.html
I haven’t measured it. I have 2 rad, gpu, cpu so a decent loop. Purges air quick enough, which is hardly a Si unit.
Update 11 - Thermal and Noise Performance
--------------------------------
Thermal / Noise Testing Summary: (More Pictures, and a more detailed explanation in the update linked above!)
System Specifications:
Measurement Protocol
The thermal load used for this test was 5 minutes of OCCT’s power stress test, which includes a GPU + CPU burn test (using SSE / CUDA). I ran the tests for 5 minutes - enough to reach steady state in my build). For data logging, I used HWInfo64. The above protocol and specifications stayed the same for both tests.
For noise measurement, two microphones were placed at a 1ft (12inch / 32cm) distance from the side panel of the case. The UMIK-1 is a calibrated measurement mic, with dBA readings displayed on a laptop (taken using REW). The second device is my phone, used to measure frequency responses during the noise tests. The room is not treated, and noise floor was 28dBA.
Stock Thermals and Noise
Overclocked Thermals and Noise
At steady state, the 5950X is still running at 90ºC, but thanks to Winter One’s airflow optimization, the L12S Noctua Cooler is managing to dissipate an impressive 170W of thermal load. (For context this a mere 20 W lower than the 190W dissipated by my NH-D14 tower cooler on an open air test bench, with the same 5950X!). Our overclocked 3090FE is managing 67ºC while pulling 400W.
Front / Rear M.2 Drive Temperatures
At this point, it's safe to say that Winter One has achieved it's goal of being an exceptionally well-cooled SFFPC case. Thermals and noise only get better as you use an AIO, or set up a custom loop, but they're also very competitive when air cooling. Winter One's design philosophy represents a huge leap forward in cooling capability of SFFPCs.
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Edit: NH L12S, not U12S. Thank you @DrHudacris for the correction!
--------------------------------
Thermal / Noise Testing Summary: (More Pictures, and a more detailed explanation in the update linked above!)
System Specifications:
- CPU: Ryzen 5950X
- Motherboard: Gigabyte B550i Aorus Pro AX
- CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-L12S**
- GPU: RTX 3090FE (stock air cooler)
- Memory: 64GB Crucial Ballistix 3600 CL16
- Power Supply: Corsair SF750 Platinum
- Case Fans: 4 x Noctua NFA14 PWM fans
- Front M.2: WD SN850 2TB (using motherboard heatsink)
- Rear M.2: WD SN750 2TB (no heatsink)
- Case: Winter One V12 - Perforated Panels
- Airflow Setup: top/bottom exhaust, side panel intake
- Fan Curve: Linear, from 20% at 20C to 100% at 80C, based on the highest temp (either CPU or GPU core)
- Ambient Temp: 21ºC
Measurement Protocol
The thermal load used for this test was 5 minutes of OCCT’s power stress test, which includes a GPU + CPU burn test (using SSE / CUDA). I ran the tests for 5 minutes - enough to reach steady state in my build). For data logging, I used HWInfo64. The above protocol and specifications stayed the same for both tests.
For noise measurement, two microphones were placed at a 1ft (12inch / 32cm) distance from the side panel of the case. The UMIK-1 is a calibrated measurement mic, with dBA readings displayed on a laptop (taken using REW). The second device is my phone, used to measure frequency responses during the noise tests. The room is not treated, and noise floor was 28dBA.
Stock Thermals and Noise
- 5950X: Stock frequencies, no PBO, 120W power limit
- 3090FE: Stock frequencies, no UV, 350W power limit
- Total Heat to Dissipate: 470W
- Idle CPU: 36ºC
- Idle GPU: 40ºC
- Idle Noise: 35dBa
- Steady State CPU: 65ºC
- Steady State GPU: 65ºC
- Steady State Noise: 45dBa
Overclocked Thermals and Noise
- 5950X: Stock + PBO-2, VF Curve Editor (-10 offset), 250W peak power limit
- 3090FE: Custom VF Curve with 2025Mhz @ 950mV, 400W power limit
- Total Heat to Dissipate: 625W initially, 575W steady state.
- CPU Idle: 36ºC
- GPU Idle: 36ºC
- Idle Noise: 35dBA
- CPU Steady State: 90ºC / 170W
- GPU Steady State: 67ºC / 400W
- Noise at OC Load: 54dBA
At steady state, the 5950X is still running at 90ºC, but thanks to Winter One’s airflow optimization, the L12S Noctua Cooler is managing to dissipate an impressive 170W of thermal load. (For context this a mere 20 W lower than the 190W dissipated by my NH-D14 tower cooler on an open air test bench, with the same 5950X!). Our overclocked 3090FE is managing 67ºC while pulling 400W.
Front / Rear M.2 Drive Temperatures
- Rear M.2 500GB Write Temps: 68ºC
- Rear M.2 500GB Read Temps: 56ºC
At this point, it's safe to say that Winter One has achieved it's goal of being an exceptionally well-cooled SFFPC case. Thermals and noise only get better as you use an AIO, or set up a custom loop, but they're also very competitive when air cooling. Winter One's design philosophy represents a huge leap forward in cooling capability of SFFPCs.
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Edit: NH L12S, not U12S. Thank you @DrHudacris for the correction!
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I know you say NH L12S later on, so I figure you may have missed this typo
Impressive thermals!
Hypothetically speaking. Would it be possible to use a cardboard side panel to fit an D14? Its sacrilege(and problematic) for many reasons but i'm in a bit of a pickle where I bought the solid side panels and the D14 is my only decent air-cooler.
I'm looking into an Arctic passive cooler with some tiny fans as a plan B. Not sure it works but it would be nice.
