SKYREACH 4 MINI (S4M)

[Jumie]

Hello all, So I have built my S4 mini with ryzen 5 1600 on asrock ab350 mobo. I got zotac 1070ti mini around msrp. Powered using hdplex 400 and Dell brick.
Installation was easy even on my first time building itx platform. Cpu temp on idle is around 27-41c, while the gpu hang around 39-45. The problem so far was when I play PUBG, I have several instance where my S4 suddenly dead while in game, not in the lobby. I try to turn it on again but no luck until I had to unplug and replug the brick again.
Any idea how that could happened?
Obligatory pics

 

[1461748123]

Hello all, So I have built my S4 mini with ryzen 5 1600 on asrock ab350 mobo. I got zotac 1070ti mini around msrp. Powered using hdplex 400 and Dell brick.
Installation was easy even on my first time building itx platform. Cpu temp on idle is around 27-41c, while the gpu hang around 39-45. The problem so far was when I play PUBG, I have several instance where my S4 suddenly dead while in game, not in the lobby. I try to turn it on again but no luck until I had to unplug and replug the brick again.
Any idea how that could happened?
Obligatory pics

Nice pics you got there haha. You might got a bad brick if you are experiencing that problem.

 

[dumplinknet]

Only additions were load line calibration (LLC) =6, CPU voltage offset =0.6V. LLC will help with your undervolt.

My temperatures are still higher than what Ceski got, even with the undervolt. But the most important thing is that I have an 8700K in an S4 Mini that will run at full speed no problem. And with the temperatures you're getting, so are you.

Where can I find Load Line in the rog Strix z370i bios? I can't find it. I swear, the bios is a mama to navigate!

And is your CPU voltage offset a positive value? Or a negative 0.6V?

 

[Felidire]

It was the middle of summer, and this work space attracts a lot of dust and small insects, so I quickly attached an NF-A20 200mm fan near the underside of the MoBo for quiet ventilation and then pulled a stocking over the top. I could've bought a larger case to fit the NF-A20 internally, but I'd much rather do it this way; I can easily remove the fan later if I'm in a colder climate, or want the PC to be as small as possible. Dust catches mostly above the CPU fan, and above the NF-A20 (where the GPU is located).

I'll tend to the aesthetics during the next year or two, probably after I move. Hopefully a lot more PSU options have been experimented with by then. Working great for now though, and there's so much more free space.

http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/6461163 - Performance with no case (sitting on cardboard box)
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7062423 - Performance in S4M
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7503140 - Performance after stocking applied

 

[brt02]

Where can I find Load Line in the rog Strix z370i bios? I can't find it. I swear, the bios is a mama to navigate!

And is your CPU voltage offset a positive value? Or a negative 0.6V?

LLC is the first option under DIGI+ VRM
Offset is -0.06V, not -0.6V sorry. I keep making that mistake, luckily the BIOS won't let me put that value in.

 

[dumplinknet]

Only additions were load line calibration (LLC) =6, CPU voltage offset = -0.06V. LLC will help with your undervolt.

My temperatures are still higher than what Ceski got, even with the undervolt. But the most important thing is that I have an 8700K in an S4 Mini that will run at full speed no problem. And with the temperatures you're getting, so are you.

This is insane! I changed my CPU LoadLine value to "6", then I went back into Intel XTU, and undervolted by "-0.05V" and so far, I am able to run its cpu stress test WITHOUT any crash/BSOD.
Before, I instantly had a BSOD within seconds.

My temp curve, however, is less stable and jumps up and down more frequently. TDP dropped down to 75W.

I wonder how far I can push this undervolting value without being too greedy...

Hmm...

Need to read up on Load Line Calibration. What is it?

 

[dumplinknet]

I need a little bit of advice from those who are experienced in tweaking for stability.

After applying Ceski's settings in Bios and changing my CPU Load Line to "6", I undervolted my 8700K down to -0.100V in Intel's XTU and ran the CPU stress test for 30 minutes and passed. Great.

I then proceeded to run these settings in Prime95 (26.6) and had an immediate BSOD with this torture test:
I'm so confused. So I lowered the voltage back down to -0.050V and ran Prime95 and still got a BSOD.

With this said, my question: Is it safe to assume that if I can pass a 30-minute Intel CPU stress test at -0.100V, would I be more than fine in "real-world" useage? I like to simultaneously run a few heavy programs such as Adobe Lightroom, Photoshop, several chrome tabs opened, and maybe a AAA title at Max setting in 1080 all while streaming. Is this "real world" use anywhere close to how Prime95 stressed the CPU?

 

[blubblob]

In my experience, the CPU stress testing tools don't allow for an accurate estimate about stability in "real-world" usage past the "immediate BSOD" phase. Especially while undervolting, the devil is in intermittent load changes, which at least to my knowledge no CPU stress testing tool can comprehensively simulate.
LLC can only guard against the constant Vdroop in a specific load scenario but there is still considerable negative overshoot in cases where the load changes from low to high in an instant.
If you are already getting immediate BSODs in Prime, I would be surprised if you did not see random crashes at least at some point in your daily use.

 

[brt02]

In my experience, the CPU stress testing tools don't allow for an accurate estimate about stability in "real-world" usage past the "immediate BSOD" phase. Especially while undervolting, the devil is in intermittent load changes, which at least to my knowledge no CPU stress testing tool can comprehensively simulate.
LLC can only guard against the constant Vdroop in a specific load scenario but there is still considerable negative overshoot in cases where the load changes from low to high in an instant.
If you are already getting immediate BSODs in Prime, I would be surprised if you did not see random crashes at least at some point in your daily use.

Exactly that.

On the ASUS Z370 boards LLC 6 does not eliminate Vdroop completely, but it is the setting that comes closest to doing so. Under really high loads you will still get some vdroop which has the effect of increasing your undervolt.

You will need to try reducing your undervolt to try and regain stability. It is a process of trial and error and it is really time consuming, which makes it only really worth it if you are intent on gaining those last few degrees.

The biggest gains with Ceski's tweaks come from turning MCE off and setting IA AC and IA DC loadline = 0.01, which has the effect of setting vCore = VID thus reducing Vcore greatly (Vcore = voltage supplied by motherboard to CPU, VID = voltage requested by CPU).

I found that Intel XTU near useless in terms of stabilty testing under load. Power and temps were way below what i got with OCCT and prime95, both of which would fail where XTU worked, so I would use either of those instead.

 

[Zackmd1]

@Josh | NFC

I noticed on the SFF lab page that the internal height listed is 57mm. Any chance you can confirm where that was referenced from? I have two Xbox One S PSUs I want to possibly fit inside a Mini. The issue is that they only have a chance of fitting if I mount them to the inside of the front panel with the bottom of the PSUs being parallel with the front panel. That height dimension for the PSU oriented in that way comes in at 60mm... Close but I fear not close enough.

 

[Kmpkt]

The case is 57mm inside the chassis but 60mm between the side panels. Depending on what you're planning to do with respect to GPU etc. you can probably get one or both of your Xbox PSUs on the bottom brace/chassis panel. Do you have complete dimensions for these units?

 

[Jotunn]

When I go to modify the HDPlex internal 160w brick to use a polarized C8 inlet, should I re-solder the ground wire to any particular point in the system or should I cap the wire?

 

[Zackmd1]

The case is 57mm inside the chassis but 60mm between the side panels. Depending on what you're planning to do with respect to GPU etc. you can probably get one or both of your Xbox PSUs on the bottom brace/chassis panel. Do you have complete dimensions for these units?

Dimensions for the PSU housing “as is” are as follows...

128mm length
60mm width
44mm height

With a bit of modification you can get the height down to 40mm easily.

Removing the PSU from the housing drops about 4mm off all dimensions.

 

[Kmpkt]

So if you use a reference height GPU (111.5mm) you can get the HDPlex 160W AC-DC in with a couple MM to spare on the bottom of the case. The unfortunate thing for you is that the overall internal depth of the case is not enough for you to get two 128mm units into that space, especially when you consider the extra bulk that will be added by connector housings for your wires.

Pretty much the only way you're going to get a pair of those units into the S4M in their stock configuration is to cut the front panel of the inner chassis in such a way that the units can poke out ever so slightly. If you're comfortable removing the housing from the PSU, then it sounds like you'll likely be able to get both units inside of the front of the case without modification. My one concern with that would obviously be electrocution or a dangerous short if tolerances are tight and components are exposed.

 

[tjeska]

Quick question, I have bought a MSI 1070 ITX for my S4M and have some liquid metal left over from a other project.
Would like to use it on this card to get the ultimate performance out of it.

The whole heat sink is nickel plated on this card, i read everywhere that it has copper heat pipes and aluminum fins, but how can i be sure that the coolers "base" is copper?
I have searched alot, but cant find a divisive answer.

Are there some tricks, of people who have done this already around here?

 

[Zackmd1]

So if you use a reference height GPU (111.5mm) you can get the HDPlex 160W AC-DC in with a couple MM to spare on the bottom of the case. The unfortunate thing for you is that the overall internal depth of the case is not enough for you to get two 128mm units into that space, especially when you consider the extra bulk that will be added by connector housings for your wires.

Pretty much the only way you're going to get a pair of those units into the S4M in their stock configuration is to cut the front panel of the inner chassis in such a way that the units can poke out ever so slightly. If you're comfortable removing the housing from the PSU, then it sounds like you'll likely be able to get both units inside of the front of the case without modification. My one concern with that would obviously be electrocution or a dangerous short if tolerances are tight and components are exposed.

Well what I am considering is designing a new housing that will allow the units to fit inside the mini and also possibly include mounting for a single 40mm fan. These are fanless units but with the amount of power I plan to use them for some active cooling might not be a bad idea. This is all assuming the setup passes the load testing I plan to conduct this week. Thankfully I found the mini SketchUp files! Thanks to Josh for providing that resource so that I can fit these in and design the housing for them! Now I just have to figure out how to open .skp files in fusion 360... Never tried that before...

 

[Josh | NFC]

Quick question, I have bought a MSI 1070 ITX for my S4M and have some liquid metal left over from a other project.
Would like to use it on this card to get the ultimate performance out of it.

The whole heat sink is nickel plated on this card, i read everywhere that it has copper heat pipes and aluminum fins, but how can i be sure that the coolers "base" is copper?
I have searched alot, but cant find a divisive answer.

Are there some tricks, of people who have done this already around here?

the plating on this card is not going to be good enough in my opinion to ensure you won't have any corrosion problems. That being said, it might take a while and it might not even matter too much so you probably shouldn't worry about it. Liquid metal though isn't really all that and a bag of chips for smaller coolers anyway though so you might as well stick with a good silver infused tim. My 2C.

 

[Lupercal]

When I go to modify the HDPlex internal 160w brick to use a polarized C8 inlet, should I re-solder the ground wire to any particular point in the system or should I cap the wire?

I'm also interested in this. My C8 connector should be arriving today and I'm really not sure about best practice for grounding the system.

 

[Josh | NFC]

I'm also interested in this. My C8 connector should be arriving today and I'm really not sure about best practice for grounding the system.

Hello, Lupercal and Jotunn.

I highly recommend searching for "grounding c8 connector" using the forum's search feature. There are a couple thoughts and insights by some members which you can use to determine what works best for you.

I sell the connectors for convenience as it can be challenging ordering the exact one that fits properly using long order forms and product codes (and mark it up by a buck twenty-five), but at the end of the day this is for modding which requires working around electricity, and I just don't know what the laws are for me giving you advice in this area.

 

[Lupercal]

Hello, Lupercal and Jotunn.

I highly recommend searching for "grounding c8 connector" using the forum's search feature. There are a couple thoughts and insights by some members which you can use to determine what works best for you.

I sell the connectors for convenience as it can be challenging ordering the exact one that fits properly using long order forms and product codes (and mark it up by a buck twenty-five), but at the end of the day this is for modding which requires working around electricity, and I just don't know what the laws are for me giving you advice in this area.

Thanks Josh.

From what I'm reading, in this thread, not grounding PROBABLY won't be an issue. And if the only other solution to ground while using a c8 connection, is to ground the case to the wall socket, I might as well try sticking something like a C6 connector in the case.

My goal is to not have physically modify the S4M, and I'm under the impression that a C6 connector won't fit in the S4M without some modification.