Stalled S700: Salvo Studios <23L ATX Steel Watercooled Unibody Chassis

grsychckn

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Interesting idea for the Mobo mounting. My only worry would be how secure the mounting points would be in the slots, particularly if they have "vertical" travel which may lead to undo torque on the board should they come loose.
If you look at the image below you can see not all the holes have slots. I tried to make the most common locations holes-only. I'm hoping that will be sufficient for all boards, but let's be honest: I don't have the time or money to test with even 1% of the boards out there so I pretty much have to be hopeful and see how it goes. :)



Having said that, I think this solution will be a good compromise. I'm even looking at metric standoffs so that I have more options for thumbnuts <- what a funny word.
 

Allhopeforhumanity

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May 1, 2017
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f you look at the image below you can see not all the holes have slots. I tried to make the most common locations holes-only. I'm hoping that will be sufficient for all boards, but let's be honest: I don't have the time or money to test with even 1% of the boards out there so I pretty much have to be hopeful and see how it goes. :)
Plus all of your slots are horizontal, so my loading worries go right out the window.

thumbnuts <- what a funny word.
Thubnuts definitely needs to find it's way into the common SFF vernacular.
 

grsychckn

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Plus all of your slots are horizontal, so my loading worries go right out the window.



Thubnuts definitely needs to find it's way into the common SFF vernacular.
Seems like a good insult name. Going to start using it at work.
 

annasoh323

Master of Cramming
Apr 4, 2018
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Seems like a good insult name. Going to start using it at work.
o_O glad I don't work with you. 'course, I work at a shipyard. DYK: "Swearing like a sailor" is alive and well. It seems like everyone here thinks they're sailors <exasperated sigh>
If you look at the image below you can see not all the holes have slots. I tried to make the most common locations holes-only. I'm hoping that will be sufficient for all boards, but let's be honest: I don't have the time or money to test with even 1% of the boards out there so I pretty much have to be hopeful and see how it goes. :)



Having said that, I think this solution will be a good compromise. I'm even looking at metric standoffs so that I have more options for thumbnuts <- what a funny word.
I know testing every option isn't viable but I think you're definitely on to something! C'mon motherboard manufacturers: don't mess this up for us. And glad to hear that your other contact got back to you. I hope the quote comes back favorably.
 

grsychckn

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Ok, I got word back from my alternate fabricator and he doesn't have the time to undertake a project like the S700. He instead is going to hand it off to his employer to see if they would be interested in producing it. This means it will definitely be more expensive than I was hoping from him, but I'm waiting to see what they quote me.

In the meantime, I reached out to my existing shop and sent them the latest drawings to get a quote for production costs if I decide to make a small run of the S700 case. I expect to hear back from them tomorrow on unit price. I can't stress enough however, that the S700 is going to be expensive: probably in the $350+ range. I hope that is not the case (no pun intended), but if it is I may have to think about pre-orders to see who is truly interested. If the S700 does not generate enough attention, I will turn to the S600. I will run the same numbers at all my contacts and if that also makes little to no sense, I may thinking about an S401 successor.

I also played around with the vent design and for the 3rd prototype, I've decided to have the S700 made with the circular hole pattern instead of the hexagonal one. The hex pattern really does seem quite polarizing and if I want to appeal to more customers I need to adjust this design. Below are the pictures of the latest prototype 3 design with the new vent pattern. You may note I've also added support for dual 140mm fans/radiator in the front.



 

Allhopeforhumanity

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May 1, 2017
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While I like the hex pattern a little better, circles look nice too. Shame that the fabricator had to pass it off, but as long as that quality is top notch, the higher pricetag isn't too off-putting on my end. Also the dual radiator support looks great; I was originally thinking an all air cooled build but now you have me dreaming in water.
 
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annasoh323

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Ok, I got word back from my alternate fabricator and he doesn't have the time to undertake a project like the S700. He instead is going to hand it off to his employer to see if they would be interested in producing it. This means it will definitely be more expensive than I was hoping from him, but I'm waiting to see what they quote me.

In the meantime, I reached out to my existing shop and sent them the latest drawings to get a quote for production costs if I decide to make a small run of the S700 case. I expect to hear back from them tomorrow on unit price. I can't stress enough however, that the S700 is going to be expensive: probably in the $350+ range. I hope that is not the case (no pun intended), but if it is I may have to think about pre-orders to see who is truly interested. If the S700 does not generate enough attention, I will turn to the S600. I will run the same numbers at all my contacts and if that also makes little to no sense, I may thinking about an S401 successor.

I also played around with the vent design and for the 3rd prototype, I've decided to have the S700 made with the circular hole pattern instead of the hexagonal one. The hex pattern really does seem quite polarizing and if I want to appeal to more customers I need to adjust this design. Below are the pictures of the latest prototype 3 design with the new vent pattern. You may note I've also added support for dual 140mm fans/radiator in the front.



While I like the hex pattern a little better, circles look nice too. Shame that the fabricator had to pass it off, but as long as that quality is top notch, the higher pricetag isn't too off-putting on my end. Also the dual radiator support looks great; I was originally thinking an all air cooled build but now you have me dreaming in water.
The circles look nice. Another nice look maybe be something like the skyslot (but vertical ovals) that might look pretty slick. :)

Or like the starwars wall slots: https://goo.gl/images/VK6PzR

Just ideas :)
Re: holes, I'm not against it aesthetically. I know your earlier sim calcs showed it had slightly less open area compared to hexagons, so hopefully performance won't be negatively impacted? Would rigidity of the structure be improved such that you could go with a thinner (and possibly cheaper?) material? I just poked at the most central part of my S401 metal panel and the thing hardly budges (of course, my finger is still injured).

For the 140mm rads, is that a byproduct of widening the case for extra mainboard clearance? Is largest rad size still limited to 360mm?

For your intended path forward, it'll be a little sad if the project doesn't generate enough interest to make it financially viable but it seems you have a level-headed idea of where to go with Salvo. There's value in having introduced the idea and planted the seeds of it even if it doesn't come to fruition as planned. But, we'll all stay optimistic! Here's also hoping to see an update on your prototype build!
 
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grsychckn

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So my primary fabricator came back with a quote on prices for a quantity of 20. Might want to sit down.

Part A $70.39 each
Part B $65.34 each
Part C $74.83 each
Part D $33.02 each (need 2 per case)

Total (just sheet metal): $276.60

PCIe Cables: $30/each (1 per case?)
Screws/Mounting Hardware: $5/case
Front Button: $5/each
Side Panels (acrylic): $30/each (2 per case)

Total (base accessories & hardware): $376.60

So that's $376.60 per case and this doesn't include any packaging materials or shipping costs. On top of that, my time is limited and not worthless to me.

Unless I find another source for the parts that is significantly less expensive, I've decided to delay the S700/S600 indefinitely. I'm going to update the thread with this information, but will continue to engage in conversation here.

Also, I would have to get another prototype made for $2k and that's just chasing good money after bad.
 
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Allhopeforhumanity

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May 1, 2017
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So my primary fabricator came back with a quote on prices for a quantity of 20. Might want to sit down.

Part A $70.39 each
Part B $65.34 each
Part C $74.83 each
Part D $33.02 each (need 2 per case)

Total (just sheet metal): $276.60

PCIe Cables: $30/each (1 per case?)
Screws/Mounting Hardware: $5/case
Front Button: $5/each
Side Panels (acrylic): $30/each (2 per case)

Total (base accessories & hardware): $376.60

So that's $376.60 per case and this doesn't include any packaging materials or shipping costs. On top of that, my time is limited and not worthless to me.

Unless I find another source for the parts that is significantly less expensive, I've decided to delay the S700/S600 indefinitely. I'm going to update the thread with this information, but will continue to engage in conversation here.

Also, I would have to get another prototype made for $2k and that's just chasing good money after bad.
Unfortunate that it came out to be so expensive. I don't blame you in the slightest for putting the project on hold at those rates; $350 for a boutique, high quality case wouldn't be out of the question, but when you start getting upwards of 400-450, its definitely a harder sell, particularly at the volumes you'd need to get pre-orders to make it viable.

Out of curiosity, how many units were necessary for the next price break?
 
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annasoh323

Master of Cramming
Apr 4, 2018
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So my primary fabricator came back with a quote on prices for a quantity of 20. Might want to sit down.

Part A $70.39 each
Part B $65.34 each
Part C $74.83 each
Part D $33.02 each (need 2 per case)

Total (just sheet metal): $276.60

PCIe Cables: $30/each (1 per case?)
Screws/Mounting Hardware: $5/case
Front Button: $5/each
Side Panels (acrylic): $30/each (2 per case)

Total (base accessories & hardware): $376.60

So that's $376.60 per case and this doesn't include any packaging materials or shipping costs. On top of that, my time is limited and not worthless to me.

Unless I find another source for the parts that is significantly less expensive, I've decided to delay the S700/S600 indefinitely. I'm going to update the thread with this information, but will continue to engage in conversation here.

Also, I would have to get another prototype made for $2k and that's just chasing good money after bad.
Liked for support. I know you wouldn't inflate your pricing so that's what it is for now I suppose. It certainly is a unique concept amongst ATX compatible cases. Maybe you could sell the IP to someone who would be able to make it profitable. In the world of boutique builds, there will be somebody. Probably its best characteristic is structural rigidity and balance so anyone that needs a bomb-proof design should pay attention. I'll keep notifications on for this thread should anything change (and when you post updates on your Epyc build!). Till then, all the best with the S401 and all the other things you find yourself doing!
 
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grsychckn

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Unfortunate that it came out to be so expensive. I don't blame you in the slightest for putting the project on hold at those rates; $350 for a boutique, high quality case wouldn't be out of the question, but when you start getting upwards of 400-450, its definitely a harder sell, particularly at the volumes you'd need to get pre-orders to make it viable.

Out of curiosity, how many units were necessary for the next price break?
Yeah, the price really makes it difficult and I just can't continue to make products and then sell them for no profit. Compounding the situation would be the huge price tag which eliminates a huge portion of my potential customers (if not all).

The next price break would be around 50 or so. I think at best it would be around 10% but that's my estimation from previous experience. There's no reason to think it couldn't still be the same price (although unlikely).
 

grsychckn

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Oct 11, 2017
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Liked for support. I know you wouldn't inflate your pricing so that's what it is for now I suppose. It certainly is a unique concept amongst ATX compatible cases. Maybe you could sell the IP to someone who would be able to make it profitable. In the world of boutique builds, there will be somebody. Probably its best characteristic is structural rigidity and balance so anyone that needs a bomb-proof design should pay attention. I'll keep notifications on for this thread should anything change (and when you post updates on your Epyc build!). Till then, all the best with the S401 and all the other things you find yourself doing!
I'm considering other alternatives to help make future projects less expensive. One of the ideas I'm throwing around is actually purchasing some machine equipment so I can continue this "hobby" where I can set my own pace. Of course, I wouldn't probably be mass-producing cases, but I might get more into custom manufacturing. It all depends though on a lot of factors.
 
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annasoh323

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I'm considering other alternatives to help make future projects less expensive. One of the ideas I'm throwing around is actually purchasing some machine equipment so I can continue this "hobby" where I can set my own pace. Of course, I wouldn't probably be mass-producing cases, but I might get more into custom manufacturing. It all depends though on a lot of factors.
Well, shoot, if you do that, let us know when you start moving the CNC into your garage. We'll make sure Mrs. Chckn stays away from the house until everything is installed and tested (I know that's not your wife's name and your first name isn't grsy). I can't even begin to fathom how you'd decide if you can make S401s, S700s, or any other case more cheaply with your own equipment vs the shop. Raw materials, electricity, wear and tear on tooling, wear and tear on yourself... It'd be awesome but quite something to take in.
 

grsychckn

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Well, shoot, if you do that, let us know when you start moving the CNC into your garage. We'll make sure Mrs. Chckn stays away from the house until everything is installed and tested (I know that's not your wife's name and your first name isn't grsy). I can't even begin to fathom how you'd decide if you can make S401s, S700s, or any other case more cheaply with your own equipment vs the shop. Raw materials, electricity, wear and tear on tooling, wear and tear on yourself... It'd be awesome but quite something to take in.
Mrs. Chckn - that's funny. I'm going to try and see if I can find any other shop that can give me better prices, but then I'll be looking at additional fees for shipping.

Two things I'm looking at right now are a sheet metal press and a PEM fastener installation machine. I would look at getting these for around $10k combined and if I could manage to pull that off I might consider it (with the Mrs. Chckn's approval). Would be better if I could find a local place I could borrow/rent the equipment from in the meantime though. There are some places like that within an hour or so of me now but don't have the exact equipment I would need and charge a hefty hourly fee. Just know that I'm investigating my options, especially since I'm very interested now in making a thiccc S401 version.
 

annasoh323

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a thiccc S401 version.
Oh? Now that sounds like an interesting project. How thick is thiccc? Room for rads and fat video cards? I suppose it would be deserving of its own discussion thread. What would you call it, S402T for "THICC"?
 

grsychckn

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Oh? Now that sounds like an interesting project. How thick is thiccc? Room for rads and fat video cards? I suppose it would be deserving of its own discussion thread. What would you call it, S402T for "THICC"?
It will be deserving of its own thread depending on how far along I decide to progress given the current state of my fabricators. I'm wanting to support 3-slot PCIe devices through the use of my flex-slots I designed on the S700. This also means it could support up to 2 PCIe devices (1x2-slot + 1x1-slot) and that means either bifurcation or mATX support. The major challenge I want to overcome though is the SFX power extension cable - cutting this piece out would eliminate $10-12/case. I'm going to cut the low hanging fruit if I can this time around.
 

grsychckn

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Update

I now have a quote for 20 units that seems reasonable. In order to make it viable for me though, I'd have to charge around $300 each. My question to you all: is this still too high? This price would include all the accessories mentioned above (1 PCIe cable, 2 custom side panels, front button, and fasteners.

If I exclude the cost for the custom tooling they need and the prototype, the price goes down even further, but that's still dollars out of my pocket.

I've hit a decision gate: I either pursue the S700 in very small quantities, or I move forward with the S402/S500. So I'll ask again, what would be your preference?
 

annasoh323

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Apr 4, 2018
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I'll be honest and say that at present the price-to-desire/need ratio isn't really there for me. Truthfully, the need hasn't quite materialized yet - an HEDT-type system was always going to be a down-the-line, "holy grail" type build. Other financial realities are also starting to materialize for me which makes this harder for me to say as well. I certainly hope to be able to scrape enough money together eventually for my grail build though. I wish I could support the S700/S600 more because it's so unique, I do want to see it succeed.

Any feedback through other channels?
 

robinxu

What's an ITX?
Apr 19, 2019
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I register to put my thought here.
I really like this one since I really want a good cooling case that thinner enough to fit into some packs for moving around. I have to say the price point is seemingly too hesitant for me I was thinking something about ~200 but yea I can understand how hard it is to make small quantities of this.
Agree with what annasoh323 said about "price-to-desire/need ratio".