Stalled S700: Salvo Studios <23L ATX Steel Watercooled Unibody Chassis

annasoh323

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Yes* (mATX support) and Yes (shorter PCIe extenders).

Edit: I want to say that although the extenders won't have to be as long, I'm probably not going to keep varying lengths in stock just in case someone wants to install a mATX instead of a standard ATX board. I think it best I buy as many of the same length cables to help keep costs down and if they are longer than they need to be at least they would support an upgrade if the customer decides to switch to ATX from mATX in the future.

*I want to officially support mATX and the standoff pattern should do that but I know as soon as I say it's supported, there will be some random mainboard that might not fit. Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to buy all the motherboards to test-fit, but I will do my best to support all that I can.

On a different note, I was going to take off one work day this week to try and make all the desired changes to the S700 in Solidworks but alas we have visitors this week and I won't be able to take off. Also, without going into detail the government shutdown will impact the amount of capital I have to invest in another prototype. This is probably for the best as it will force me to take my time and really critique the design before I submit it again for another round of prototyping.

I'm still hoping to be able to take off a day next week to work on the design and make some solid progress. I've already updated it to be 0.5" taller and about 1/8" wider on each side. I've added the front panel pushbutton top and centered as well as added a new pass through hole for the PCIe extender(s). I've also backed off the standoffs from the rear IO cutout to provide more compatibility with some of the mainboards with IO covers built-in (Asus primarily). I'm not entirely sure I have the spacing correct, but I know it's going to be better than the S401.
I understand the hesitance to say something then the exception to the rule appears. I'm sure that all case manufacturers go through this to some degree. At a certain point, I think it ceases to be the case's fault and becomes the motherboard's problem. I also agree with only having a single set of PCIe extenders. I still don't really have a clear idea of how the routing holes look so I'm just speculating how it might look and if it would be any easier, even with the same length ribbon. The fact that you include such a high quality PCIe ribbon with your products is already a huge boon to us customers (that Salvo logo on them is pretty nice too).

Take your time for sure! Myself, I've finally accumulated leave to our "use or lose" limit so I can actually feel okay about taking some more personal days here and there. It'd be real nice if I could get onto our compressed work schedule... longer days in exchange for one off here and there. Then my Instagram modeling career will really take off! <cue derisive laugh track>
 
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grsychckn

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Update: I'm planning on taking tomorrow off so I can put finishing touches on the backlog of changes I wanted to make to the S700 prototype 2 design. It will be a little taller, slightly wider, and have a few holes cut for better cable (PCIe) management.

On a different note, I had the Epyc system ready to test but when I finally turned it on it entered an endless power on/off cycle that I expected might happen due to the engineering sample CPUs I was using. Unfortunately, I tried removing RAM and the GPU but still had the same problem so I disassembled the entire system so I could try some of the "extra" 3 Epyc engineering CPUs I have. I also purchased two air coolers so I could test the CPU compatibility before I re-assemble the loop and I should be able to start testing tonight. I actually think I might decide to swap my 1950X build into the prototype 2 chassis just to show an actual build completed and wait on the Epyc system for one of the final prototypes.

On another note, the government shutdown has impacted me somewhat even though as a contractor whose contract is funded I'm still receiving a paycheck. I've decided however to make some of my project money available to those whom I know if they should need it in the interim. Hopefully the standoff will be resolved soon and I can get back to having some funds for development. On a positive note, delaying my submission for the next prototype will probably mean I'll catch those one or two additional items that I would have normally missed.
 

grsychckn

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How did your day off and weekend go for design adjustments/proto building?
I made a lot of progress but am having a difficult time figuring out what to do with the bottom of the chamber where the mainboard is installed. I want to find some way to utilize the space better but it's an awkward size and if a FlexATX PSU is not used, there is pretty much only mounts for 2x2.5" drives. I thought about making that area a cable management cover, but would prefer it be used for something a little more than either a cable management or a FlexATX mount. Otherwise, I updated the models to add the space I wanted, included a pair of water-cooled grommets for external hose routing, and added zip tie mounts for cable management.

Needless to say, I'm still working on the bottom of the chassis because I don't like wasting all that space. More to come tonight or tomorrow - I'm currently juggling a lot at home and work right now so it's been very busy.
 

annasoh323

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Not much really to add - just glad to hear that you were able to make the bulk of the improvements. Would the bottom space be usable for hubs of various sorts that could be velcroed down to the side/bottom? I'm thinking maybe like USB hubs that can plug into unused mobo headers, maybe auxiliary audio/video devices. Fan hubs, RGB hubs, other things that usually find their ways into large cases and usually go on the "back" side. These can be user sourced; you could just provide the double-stick/velcro. It could also be used for drives. If lots of cables are used down there, then it could also be useful to have extra cable straps/covers down there as well if it can be fit.

If it is used for hubs, then perhaps a cable grommet to the outside would be good too. It could just be a notch in the back of the case that is opened up when the side panel is removed. I've seen hubs designed for for external use that plug into motherboard headers... I think. Then, either the hub could come outside the case or the cables connected to the hub could. Spitball idea again.
 
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grsychckn

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Not much really to add - just glad to hear that you were able to make the bulk of the improvements. Would the bottom space be usable for hubs of various sorts that could be velcroed down to the side/bottom? I'm thinking maybe like USB hubs that can plug into unused mobo headers, maybe auxiliary audio/video devices. Fan hubs, RGB hubs, other things that usually find their ways into large cases and usually go on the "back" side. These can be user sourced; you could just provide the double-stick/velcro. It could also be used for drives. If lots of cables are used down there, then it could also be useful to have extra cable straps/covers down there as well if it can be fit.

If it is used for hubs, then perhaps a cable grommet to the outside would be good too. It could just be a notch in the back of the case that is opened up when the side panel is removed. I've seen hubs designed for for external use that plug into motherboard headers... I think. Then, either the hub could come outside the case or the cables connected to the hub could. Spitball idea again.
Great ideas. I'm going to see if I can notch out a few cable passthru holes. The space underneath the mainboard is exactly where I'm going to be mounting my RGB controller for my Threadripper build if I ever manage to find time to finish it. I started a post earlier to update on the state of the S700 prototype 3 but due to the weather I left work early and of course my post was lost. Regardless, below are the latest images I have of the chassis to include changes I made for height/width and mounting locations. I'm including slots for mainboards that are not standard (Supermicro Epyc E-ATX) and will include some standoffs that will install with the threads up to keep from interfering with the chamber on the other side. I'm still brainstorming on the bottom of the case currently but I'm starting to feel at peace with the design as it stands.





With the additional slot I made on the bottom, it is going to require a 500mm PCIe extension to use PCIe devices on the middle flex slot. To use the top slot it's going require around a 600mm cable but I'll have to order some and test fit after the prototype has been made. All the small square holes are for the zip tie cable mount points.
 

grsychckn

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Had a thought tonight: I'm thinking about making the S700 shorter due to the "wasted" space along the bottom. What this means is that I'm considering removing the FlexATX mount in the mainboard chamber as well as the top flex slot on the GPU side. The front radiator will go from a 120x360 to a 120x240 radiator. The height will be reduced by around 3" and volume by around 5L (23.6L - 18.6L).

Pros:
1. Much less volume (conservative reduction of around 20%).
2. More efficient use of space as it is likely many of the existing mounts will go unused in actual builds.
3. Chassis will be more rigid.

Cons:
1. Lose 2nd flex slot (likely losing 3.5" disk support and the additional 2 PCIe devices) but in place gain static mounts for either 2x2.5" drives (stacker compatible) or 80mm x 3 radiator (3x80mm fans as well).
2. Lose Flex ATX support.
3. Downgrade from 120x360 to 120x240 radiator.

This would mean I couldn't build my dual Epyc/dual Vega FE system in the chassis as 3x80mm radiator is insufficient to cool the dual GPUs. However, I already have the existing prototype which I can build this system in. Thoughts?
 

annasoh323

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While the change is an interesting one, I think at the end of the day (which it is, incidentally) I lean towards saying that making that change wouldn't be for the best (based on info/speculation I have now which may be refuted).

The main one I keep coming back to is that my main reason for moving to ATX would be to make use of PCIe devices. And yet... as I think about it, I don't really know exactly what PCIe devices I might use. I probably wouldn't do a 2nd video card but perhaps an extra I/O device of some sort. Possibly video or sound related. I do also like the idea of a 360mm rad. I'd not heard of 80mm rads till now - I wonder how a 240mm rad + 80mm rad compares to a 360mm rad.

I know you said previously that big changes would make the next prototype that much more expensive and at the cost of too much of the case's overall functionality. Still, I haven't really stumbled on my ideal use-scenario yet (especially with the rumored core counts of Ryzen 2 on the consumer platform) so it's hard to say what sort of build might materialize.
 
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grsychckn

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While the change is an interesting one, I think at the end of the day (which it is, incidentally) I lean towards saying that making that change wouldn't be for the best (based on info/speculation I have now which may be refuted).

The main one I keep coming back to is that my main reason for moving to ATX would be to make use of PCIe devices. And yet... as I think about it, I don't really know exactly what PCIe devices I might use. I probably wouldn't do a 2nd video card but perhaps an extra I/O device of some sort. Possibly video or sound related. I do also like the idea of a 360mm rad. I'd not heard of 80mm rads till now - I wonder how a 240mm rad + 80mm rad compares to a 360mm rad.

I know you said previously that big changes would make the next prototype that much more expensive and at the cost of too much of the case's overall functionality. Still, I haven't really stumbled on my ideal use-scenario yet (especially with the rumored core counts of Ryzen 2 on the consumer platform) so it's hard to say what sort of build might materialize.
The prototype is going to be costly no matter what. I understand your feelings because I feel the same way: Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. That said, I can see you are having a hard time figuring out exactly what you would use all that space for which is my biggest concern right now. I made a quick model to show what I'm thinking about and below are the renders. Pay no attention to the fact that the radiator is not placed perfectly. The volume of this chassis is 19.5L (measuring the outer dimensions). It uses a dual-140mm (280mm) radiator which has 39,200mm^2 surface area while the triple-120mm radiator has 43,200mm^2 surface area. The 140mm fans should run a little quieter. Of course, I'd have to vent everything as the current model has no mounts or holes. This would still support a 305mm long triple-slot GPU. I forsee most users would just buy an AIO and use the pump/reservoir area for storage (it will fit 1x3.5" HDD - 2x3.5" with stackers).



 

grsychckn

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Adding in here that a 120x120mm AIO could be placed where the pump/reservoir is located as well.

I think the smaller design will have more mass appeal while the larger design will be costlier and more niche. For those following this thread I'd be very interested in hearing which you would prefer if you were going to purchase one. The larger one would probably run around $300 unless I find a way to manufacture it cheaper. The smaller one would probably be around $225 or so. Again, I might not actually make many of either but curious what the thoughts are.
 

annasoh323

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I suppose it comes down to: what other advantages does the ATX platform have over ITX if the Ryzen 2 16 cores rumors are true? With the redesign, the PCIe slot advantage goes away (unless, is there a way to fit half-height or short cards anywhere else in there? Just for the sake of the thought experiment). Platform flexibility is definitely an advantage (no ITX TR4, for instance). Memory configurations come to mind (can combine lower-capacity DIMMs for more memory overall).

I'm sure I could come up with more ideas if I gave it more thought but I'd like to hear from those that have built and use ATX systems and what other folks' use cases are. Perhaps the main advantage IS to be able to go to an HEDT platform so anything requiring less than that is moot. Life has been both easier and harder since being baptized into the cult of mITX single-GPU gaming PCs. (if someone knows of any other places where this discussion has taken place, I'd love to see it).

At the end of the day, I'm certainly open to the possibilities; just need to understand how things would work. Like I've said before, I'm just dabbling (or, for those that don't mind a Star Wars sequel trilogy reference, "just beginning to test my powers.")
 

Ricky

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Adding in here that a 120x120mm AIO could be placed where the pump/reservoir is located as well.

I think the smaller design will have more mass appeal while the larger design will be costlier and more niche. For those following this thread I'd be very interested in hearing which you would prefer if you were going to purchase one. The larger one would probably run around $300 unless I find a way to manufacture it cheaper. The smaller one would probably be around $225 or so. Again, I might not actually make many of either but curious what the thoughts are.
I’d actually prefer this one out of the two. I can still attach AIO’s to both CPU/GPU, and I’m happy with that.
 
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MrClippy

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The prototype is going to be costly no matter what. I understand your feelings because I feel the same way: Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. That said, I can see you are having a hard time figuring out exactly what you would use all that space for which is my biggest concern right now. I made a quick model to show what I'm thinking about and below are the renders. Pay no attention to the fact that the radiator is not placed perfectly. The volume of this chassis is 19.5L (measuring the outer dimensions). It uses a dual-140mm (280mm) radiator which has 39,200mm^2 surface area while the triple-120mm radiator has 43,200mm^2 surface area. The 140mm fans should run a little quieter. Of course, I'd have to vent everything as the current model has no mounts or holes. This would still support a 305mm long triple-slot GPU. I forsee most users would just buy an AIO and use the pump/reservoir area for storage (it will fit 1x3.5" HDD - 2x3.5" with stackers).



Interesting that it'll be using 2x140mm fan and radiator cooling. I know you're considering less the idea of having dual gpu or extra pcie devices, but was wondering what if you moved some stuff around such that there is the option for more pcie devices?

In the below image, I'm not sure how the PSU plug would work but I'd imagine it'd be similar to how your current salvo s401 has the extension plug.

Also was wondering if there's enough space here to put something vertically?
 
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grsychckn

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Interesting that it'll be using 2x140mm fan and radiator cooling. I know you're considering less the idea of having dual gpu or extra pcie devices, but was wondering what if you moved some stuff around such that there is the option for more pcie devices?

In the below image, I'm not sure how the PSU plug would work but I'd imagine it'd be similar to how your current salvo s401 has the extension plug.

Also was wondering if there's enough space here to put something vertically?
There may be space there to put something. One thing I found that was pretty neat though were these things:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F9SMXQ1/?tag=theminutiae-20

They allow you a direct plug & play option for an m.2 drive into the x16 PCIe slot. I've got one and when installed, I don't think there would be much room to install anything above it. That said, I will definitely look into that area more to see what I can offer.

I reached out to a different fabricator to see if I could get better prices on lower volumes. I'm a little worried because he is a little slow and might not be as detail oriented as the shop I'm using now. Hopefully the price will definitely make it worth it.

I'm a little shy of moving the PSU away from the rear as making a PSU extender cable costs me about $10/cable to make if I want it high quality. I heard once that if you watch the pennies, the dollars watch themselves. I'm trying to be much more careful about feature creep where potential can end up costing me money. Regardless, I like the critical thought you've put in - if you have more, please share.
 

annasoh323

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Interesting that it'll be using 2x140mm fan and radiator cooling. I know you're considering less the idea of having dual gpu or extra pcie devices, but was wondering what if you moved some stuff around such that there is the option for more pcie devices?

In the below image, I'm not sure how the PSU plug would work but I'd imagine it'd be similar to how your current salvo s401 has the extension plug.

Also was wondering if there's enough space here to put something vertically?
That's an interesting one: Use a short video card and add components. @grsychckn were there already mounting points on the flex slots for additional components?

There may be space there to put something. One thing I found that was pretty neat though were these things:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F9SMXQ1/?tag=theminutiae-20

They allow you a direct plug & play option for an m.2 drive into the x16 PCIe slot. I've got one and when installed, I don't think there would be much room to install anything above it. That said, I will definitely look into that area more to see what I can offer.

I reached out to a different fabricator to see if I could get better prices on lower volumes. I'm a little worried because he is a little slow and might not be as detail oriented as the shop I'm using now. Hopefully the price will definitely make it worth it.

I'm a little shy of moving the PSU away from the rear as making a PSU extender cable costs me about $10/cable to make if I want it high quality. I heard once that if you watch the pennies, the dollars watch themselves. I'm trying to be much more careful about feature creep where potential can end up costing me money. Regardless, I like the critical thought you've put in - if you have more, please share.
Also, I realized through my hand-wringing about losing space for PCIe devices, the flex slots can go up to three PCIe slots. So, even with a dual-slot air cooler, a theoretical one slot I/O device should fit too, right?
Those little m.2 adapters look great! Wait for a Black Friday sale on 2TB m.2 drives and ditch 2.5/3.5 drives forever! If you find anything else that could fit in that space, that'd be pretty cool. Traditional half-height cards don't fit, yes? (Ignoring the lack of half-height PCIe slots in the case on that side for now).
 

grsychckn

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That's an interesting one: Use a short video card and add components. @grsychckn were there already mounting points on the flex slots for additional components?
The flex slot supports 1x3-slot PCIe device, 1x1-slot + 1x1-slot, or 1x2-slot + 1x1-slot. In the latter configuration, whichever device is on the bottom could be starved for air.

Also, I realized through my hand-wringing about losing space for PCIe devices, the flex slots can go up to three PCIe slots. So, even with a dual-slot air cooler, a theoretical one slot I/O device should fit too, right?
Those little m.2 adapters look great! Wait for a Black Friday sale on 2TB m.2 drives and ditch 2.5/3.5 drives forever! If you find anything else that could fit in that space, that'd be pretty cool. Traditional half-height cards don't fit, yes? (Ignoring the lack of half-height PCIe slots in the case on that side for now).
Correct on the PCIe single-slot statement. I'm trying to see if there is a standard reservoir that will fit in that spot. There's also the possibility I could modify the flex slot bracket to make a new one that will mount and fit in the FlexATX mount that will support additional 3.5" or 2.5" drives. The only problem with this idea is the extra cost of said bracket.
 
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annasoh323

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Just saw the newsletter update. So, it seems you're investigating using the 240mm rad version as a standalone? Really neat concept; almost like your own Cerberus/Cerberus X product line. The more I look at it, I can see how the S600 240mm rad case with single flex slot makes sense as a powerhouse workstation: HEDT platform, single pro GPU for rendering/computing, those PCIe-to-m.2 adapter cards for loads of fast storage in a transportable SFF (<20L) package. Last thing I would look for is space for I/O devices (mouse, keyboard, audio, card readers, maybe even TB3 devices if more motherboards start taking it on). One spot for internally mounting devices might be the pump/res area, assuming AIO and air-cooled video card. I'll keep watching how things go. Thanks for sending out that newsletter!

Also, any updates on the S700 v2 proto build?
 

TristanDuboisOLG

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Hey! I love this design and I'm sorry if any of this question has been asked before in this thread. I have an x299 Dark board that I'm looking to find another home for. On your store listing for the S700 you say that there is support for some E-ATX boards. Do you know if the Dark board will fit?

Thanks!
 
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grsychckn

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Hey! I love this design and I'm sorry if any of this question has been asked before in this thread. I have an x299 Dark board that I'm looking to find another home for. On your store listing for the S700 you say that there is support for some E-ATX boards. Do you know if the Dark board will fit?

Thanks!
Yes, that board *should* fit fine. I don't even think the front would have to be expanded on the S700 for it to fit. The Supermicro H11DSi I installed into prototype 3 is 12"x13" and it required the front panel be extended the 0.8" for clearance. The X299 Dark board is reported to only be 12"x10" and appears to support standard ATX mounting.

BTW, as an announcement to all, I've decide to change the way the mainboard is mounted on the S700. Basically, I want to try using #6-32 3/8" hexagonal female/male standoffs where the male (threaded) portion of the standoff will actually be installed from the underside of the board through the mounting holes and held in place using either #6-32 hex nuts or #6-32 thumbnuts. Then, a wafer head #6-32 screw will be used to fasten the standoffs to the mainboard chamber mounts. The advantage is flexibility: Many different mainboard layouts can be supported because I can create slots for the standoffs where I know manufacturers have different mounting locations. This was/is a challenge because I know there are clearance issues to consider when using a thumbnut and I haven't found a good solution for this just yet. I do think though this is the best option available as I'm basically designing this for myself so I can install the H11DSi which uses odd mounting points.

Long story short: Yes, that board should work with either the S700 or the S600 (if made).

Update: I finally got word back from my second fabricator and he is so busy he wants me to submit my drawings to his company officially which will mean it will be more expensive but also be more dependable in terms of time and quality.
 

Allhopeforhumanity

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Interesting idea for the Mobo mounting. My only worry would be how secure the mounting points would be in the slots, particularly if they have "vertical" travel which may lead to undo torque on the board should they come loose.
 
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