S4 MINI Classic (S4M-C)

[Zero]

Realistically I think the more likely problem you're going to run into pushing a 1080Ti and say 7700K on this unit is possibly coil whine. The major objective as I understand it to providing the added headroom on this unit was to eliminate the coil whine we saw in the last generation.

As someone who uses a 1080ti and 7700k on this now, yeah there is a lot of coil whine from the HDPlex, and in fact mine didn't survive the exteneded peaks without the performance being permanently diminished (i.e. system shuts off now if I run the card without underclocking first).

When I had the Zotac 1080, I had coil whine from the Zotac board and the HDPlex. I assume the Zotac whined because being smaller with less power stages, it put more stress on the inductors. With the 1080ti FE, I had coil whine just from the HDPlex but not the card.

In any event, anyone planning to use a 1080ti whether mini or otherwise is gonna need a bit more beef than the HDPlex 300w (400w peak) PSU. The guy who makes it is on these forums occasionally right? I think a solid solution would be using the HDPlex 160w DC-DC to drive the motherboard/CPU so that the HDPlex 300w can be completely dedicated to the GPU. I'd like to know if he can confirm whether or not that configuration can work, and whether he's doing any more upgrades to the HDPlex 300w.

 

[3lfk1ng]

Yes, that is correct. When @Josh | NFC isn't busy conquering life, he is a regular around these parts.

 

[Kmpkt]

With the conventional HDPlex hardware, you can't do a dual PSU like you've mentioned due to the fact that you need a 19V input for both. That being said, HDPlex is releasing a 400W version of the unit shortly (June I believe). If that doesn't suit your needs, I've had HDPlex make me a custom unit I am hoping to begin selling in August (or sooner) that is exactly what you are talking about. The first unit will do 360W and would only power your GPU and SATA while the 200W Pico unit attached to it would power the motherboard including the PCIe slot. Hypothetically this means you can push about 400-450W content to your GPU while also having a total peak constant system draw of 560W.

 

[Kmpkt]

Yes, that is correct. When @Josh | NFC isn't busy conquering life, he is a regular around these parts.

I think he meant Larry not Josh.

 

[Zero]

With the conventional HDPlex hardware, you can't do a dual PSU like you've mentioned due to the fact that you need a 19V input for both. That being said, HDPlex is releasing a 400W version of the unit shortly (June I believe). If that doesn't suit your needs, I've had HDPlex make me a custom unit I am hoping to begin selling in August (or sooner) that is exactly what you are talking about. The first unit will do 360W and would only power your GPU and SATA while the 200W Pico unit attached to it would power the motherboard including the PCIe slot. Hypothetically this means you can push about 400-450W content to your GPU while also having a total peak constant system draw of 560W.

Ah yeah, I found your thread while looking around. I actually already use dual 19v bricks in parallel wired to the HDPlex, so to use the Pico and 300w HDPlex together I'd just need to split up the bricks and figure out the signalling so both HDPlex turn on/off in unison.

As for your products, don't take this the wrong way but I'm trying to understand why it exists in addition to the HDPlex stuff, vs just making a dongle to split a 19v brick to two PSUs, or wiring both the HDPlex 19v inputs together. It seems you worked with Larry to make these alternate models, but are these solving any issues that couldn't be solved by simply rewiring things?

 

[m_power20]

7740k is on its way.....

Son of a bitch. Thank goodness I haven't bought yet. Any news/recommendations on mobo or ram.

 

[Zero]

Son of a bitch. Thank goodness I haven't bought yet. Any news/recommendations on mobo or ram.

7740k requires a whole different motherboard and socket (don't think mini-ITX motherboards exists for it yet) and is higher TDP... it seems kind of pointless to me, super expensive for the same clocks, expensive server motherboard, and it doesn't even support ECC ram which at least would let you run VLP in the system. Wouldn't make a lick of difference for gaming vs 7700k I'd wager.

 

[m_power20]

7740k requires a whole different motherboard and socket (don't think mini-ITX motherboards exists for it yet) and is higher TDP... it seems kind of pointless to me, super expensive for the same clocks, expensive server motherboard, and it doesn't even support ECC ram which at least would let you run VLP in the system. Wouldn't make a lick of difference for gaming vs 7700k I'd wager.

Thanks for the heads up, before I did something stupid. So I guess target is still on for i7-7700k + GTX 1080Ti. Is there an objectively superior ram on the market, or is it a wash between a couple brands?

 

[CubanLegend]

As someone who uses a 1080ti and 7700k on this now, yeah there is a lot of coil whine from the HDPlex, and in fact mine didn't survive the exteneded peaks without the performance being permanently diminished (i.e. system shuts off now if I run the card without underclocking first).

When I had the Zotac 1080, I had coil whine from the Zotac board and the HDPlex. I assume the Zotac whined because being smaller with less power stages, it put more stress on the inductors. With the 1080ti FE, I had coil whine just from the HDPlex but not the card.

In any event, anyone planning to use a 1080ti whether mini or otherwise is gonna need a bit more beef than the HDPlex 300w (400w peak) PSU. The guy who makes it is on these forums occasionally right? I think a solid solution would be using the HDPlex 160w DC-DC to drive the motherboard/CPU so that the HDPlex 300w can be completely dedicated to the GPU. I'd like to know if he can confirm whether or not that configuration can work, and whether he's doing any more upgrades to the HDPlex 300w.

Great to know you've tested a 1080ti and a 7700k on the HDPLEX-300. Seems like the HDPLEX-400 is the minimum. That covers the DC-DC internal PSU, but then we run into the problem of the Power brick, the Dell-330 needs to be able to hit 400 as well... if it can't then G-Unique 400W PSUs would be ideal, and as we saw from earlier today in the HDPLEX-400 thread, the @guryhwa is ready and willing to make modded 400W Dell Power bricks that run in the proper voltages and have the right cutouts/plugs to fit in an S4 mini in conjunction with EITHER his custom 400W DC-DC unit, or the HDPLEX-400. As seen in this post from him: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/hdplex-400w-dc-atx.2071/page-3#post-47316

 

[|||]

With the Coffee Lake i7-8XXX processors coming out soon now that Intel has pushed their release forward, the Kaby Lake-X i7-7740K is going to be obsolete almost as soon as it comes out, irregardless of what motherboard it uses.

 

[br3nd0]

Oh bummer didn't know the 7740k was being based around the X299. I thought it was just going to be a bump over the 7740k on the same platform, guess it must have been a late night after too many beers when I read up about it. Yeah AsRock might come back again with their HEDT mITX board but I see the argument against. Pointless move really.

 

[Kmpkt]

As for your products, don't take this the wrong way but I'm trying to understand why it exists in addition to the HDPlex stuff, vs just making a dongle to split a 19v brick to two PSUs, or wiring both the HDPlex 19v inputs together. It seems you worked with Larry to make these alternate models, but are these solving any issues that couldn't be solved by simply rewiring things?

I certainly agree that with the introduction of the HDPlex 400W my units don't fill quite as wide a niche in the market. At the time I started development however, the 300W left a fair amount to be desired both in terms of coil noise as well as capacity. While I'm not unhappy with Larry's decision to move up to a higher wattage as his main offering, it will certainly make it tougher for me to eke out a niche for myself.

As far as splitting/merging bricks and power supplies, I don't think that doing this properly is within the skillset of most people on these boards let alone the common user. With that in mind the third part of my system will be a load sharing device not unlike the one made by Mini Box, but much beefier in order toto allow two AC-DC units to be merged providing up to 600W within the current HDPlex system. Other advantages of the system I'm introducing include elimination of the 24 pin cable which is often a nuisance in smaller cases like the S4 Mini as well as the ability to operate within the optimal part of the efficiency curve for longer when pushing the system (ie. less heat produced) because it's not simply one unit being stressed. The other thing about the larger portion of my system is it allows the integration of motherboards that have their own 19V-12V conversion for custom projects (Thin ITX, NuC, MSTX, etc).

In short it made more sense to pursue these product when I started development six months ago than it does now, but I still think there are enough reasons to choose my unit over the HDPlex for enough users to at least let me move my stock once over.

 

[W1NN1NG]

has anyone on this forum, located in USA, ever gotten one from them ??

I'm wondering if they'll even sell the chassis by itself. Because based off me searching I'd have to have a build done and I don't want all that. I would just want the chassis and do the building myself.

 

[royalba94]

I'm wondering if they'll even sell the chassis by itself. Because based off me searching I'd have to have a build done and I don't want all that. I would just want the chassis and do the building myself.

That's the conclusion I came to as well :/

 

[BeerNsoup]

@Josh | NFC Any chance you'd test the engine 27 with the scythe slim 120mm fan above blowing onto it? I know in your round up the engine 27 didn't perform great on it's own and that's why you didn't test it further... looking at it's design though it seems like it could benefit significantly from the set up you used with the zalman + sycthe fan.

 

[DocH]

@Josh | NFC Any chance you'd test the engine 27 with the scythe slim 120mm fan above blowing onto it? I know in your round up the engine 27 didn't perform great on it's own and that's why you didn't test it further... looking at it's design though it seems like it could benefit significantly from the set up you used with the zalman + sycthe fan.

I asked him this. He said it still was not worthy of consideration. NH9i or the LP53

 

[BeerNsoup]

I asked him this. He said it still was not worthy of consideration. NH9i or the LP53

Ah okay, thanks for the reply. Seemed like it would have benefited with some extra downward air flow since it's got a lot of exposed heatsink surface area for it's size, but I'll take josh and you at your word. Even if it had cooled great it'd still sound awful I suppose .

 

[DocH]

Ah okay, thanks for the reply. Seemed like it would have benefited with some extra downward air flow since it's got a lot of exposed heatsink surface area for it's size, but I'll take josh and you at your word. Even if it had cooled great it'd still sound awful I suppose .

Well don't quote me i never tested it. I asked josh and this was the reply

"2. Don't buy the Engine 27. Just don't do it. It is loud, crappy, and expensive. I wish it wasn't but it fails all three marks. "

so yeah i didn't decided to fuss with it after that kind of response.

 

[DocH]

A lot of people have asked me how I fit it without modding the heatshink on my gtx 1080. So here is some detailed pictures of the area.

Gtx 1080 S4 gap

 

[Zero]

I certainly agree that with the introduction of the HDPlex 400W my units don't fill quite as wide a niche in the market. At the time I started development however, the 300W left a fair amount to be desired both in terms of coil noise as well as capacity. While I'm not unhappy with Larry's decision to move up to a higher wattage as his main offering, it will certainly make it tougher for me to eke out a niche for myself.

As far as splitting/merging bricks and power supplies, I don't think that doing this properly is within the skillset of most people on these boards let alone the common user. With that in mind the third part of my system will be a load sharing device not unlike the one made by Mini Box, but much beefier in order toto allow two AC-DC units to be merged providing up to 600W within the current HDPlex system. Other advantages of the system I'm introducing include elimination of the 24 pin cable which is often a nuisance in smaller cases like the S4 Mini as well as the ability to operate within the optimal part of the efficiency curve for longer when pushing the system (ie. less heat produced) because it's not simply one unit being stressed. The other thing about the larger portion of my system is it allows the integration of motherboards that have their own 19V-12V conversion for custom projects (Thin ITX, NuC, MSTX, etc).

In short it made more sense to pursue these product when I started development six months ago than it does now, but I still think there are enough reasons to choose my unit over the HDPlex for enough users to at least let me move my stock once over.

Thanks for clearing that up, that makes more sense. I'm sure most people aren't waving soldering irons around like me and would be stoked for your plug-and-play solution.

Well don't quote me i never tested it. I asked josh and this was the reply

"2. Don't buy the Engine 27. Just don't do it. It is loud, crappy, and expensive. I wish it wasn't but it fails all three marks. "

so yeah i didn't decided to fuss with it after that kind of response.

The Engine 27 straight sucks. I bought one and it's a triple-whammy of louder, hotter, and more expensive than the Noctua.

I'm running a Cryorig heatsink with the Cryorig 140mm slim fan now, which fits in the case exactly.

Cryorig annoounced they are doing an all-copper C7, I'd be interested to see if it's any better: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/cryorig-reveals-all-copper-versions-of-their-coolers.2182/