Log Newbie, or not to be - A FormD T1 Watercooled Build Log
- Thread starter eedev
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Hey mate!
Small update today, I ordered this tiny thing from Amazon so I would not have to use that Y usb cable anymore for the Quadro.
It's plugged like this now:
I have another update (maybe several actually) but that's for another day!
Small update today, I ordered this tiny thing from Amazon so I would not have to use that Y usb cable anymore for the Quadro.
It's plugged like this now:
I have another update (maybe several actually) but that's for another day!
Hey mate!
I've been doing some benchmarking with (and without) an XSPC TX120 as a side radiator, and here are the results!
But before you look at the numbers, there is one benchmark run that was done using Intel XTU's Overclock and that to my understanding seems to be different than your regular bios overclock.
The bios overclock has the CPU full-time overclocked while when I did use only Intel XTU the CPU had minimal frequencies way lower like 800Mhz at idle (instead of 4,80Ghz mini as I write this post).
It means that loops is much hotter with the bios CPU overclock.
Also, XMP hadn't been enabled for a while now /facepalm...so the RAM clock was low for all previously posted benchmarks.
So as you can see, with that side rad and a noctua 15mm fan pulling air into the case, I get 19.6 °C average delta T while without them I get 21.2 °C average delta T so the gains are 1.6 °C.
You might have noticed I ran the same test twice, it's because I changed the feet of the case (you'll see them in the pictures), turns out it has no impact.
It's not much but everything works quite well like this
Let me show you a few things I did this weekend!
I created a space between the radiator and the motherboard, and therefore also between the 3rd ventilator and the power supply.
My GPU block was not perfectly flat so I used zip-ties to make it flat.
This is the space I had with the Scythe fan.
This is where I put the side radiator, that means the loop order is different from before, now it's TX240 > CPU > TX120 > GPU > TX240...
I received a new order from MDPC-X, see that Crimping Tool?
Well it's an awesome one, I just love this one compared to the pin destroyer I bought from Amazon, it made my life so much easier and my cables very sturdy.
So I started making my GPU custom cable (sleeved).
It looks like this comparaed to the original
When installed it looks like this
I think what would be best for my build is to reduce the length of the original wires from Corsair.
What I did I could do better with more time but if you are wondering wether you should make your own cables or buy some from @pslate (for example) my advice is buy from them.
I did it for fun, I did it to learn, and seriously, it was hard, long and frustrating until it worked, then I was happy.
The sleeving process including heat shrink and getting a nice looking cable is actually difficult.
Also, my preference goes towards unsleeved.
I like the idea of a space optimized case. I will probably do an unsleeved version of all the cables I already made.
I also made custom Y fan cables and cables, on the top the old wires on the bottom the ones I made.
I took the feet of another case and I mounted them in place of the originals, I wanted to allow better ventilation of the case.
In the end it didn't change anything.
I used allen screws and a bolt for each screw as a spacer between the fan and the GPU waterblock to make sure there will always be room for airflow even if the side panels are pushed.
I think the placement of the 120mm radiator couldn't be better as it has access to the hole at the bottom of the case, the hole created with spacers on top and there is nothing to its left.
Next week I will apply liquid metal
but I'm not going to delid the processor because I don't feel ready yet.
I'm also thinking of sanding some 25mm fans like we discussed earlier and sanding the side 15mm fan.
If I could put 3x25mm and 1x15mm I think it would be cool.
What do you think about all this?
See you later!
I've been doing some benchmarking with (and without) an XSPC TX120 as a side radiator, and here are the results!
But before you look at the numbers, there is one benchmark run that was done using Intel XTU's Overclock and that to my understanding seems to be different than your regular bios overclock.
The bios overclock has the CPU full-time overclocked while when I did use only Intel XTU the CPU had minimal frequencies way lower like 800Mhz at idle (instead of 4,80Ghz mini as I write this post).
It means that loops is much hotter with the bios CPU overclock.
Also, XMP hadn't been enabled for a while now /facepalm...so the RAM clock was low for all previously posted benchmarks.
So as you can see, with that side rad and a noctua 15mm fan pulling air into the case, I get 19.6 °C average delta T while without them I get 21.2 °C average delta T so the gains are 1.6 °C.
You might have noticed I ran the same test twice, it's because I changed the feet of the case (you'll see them in the pictures), turns out it has no impact.
It's not much but everything works quite well like this
Let me show you a few things I did this weekend!
I created a space between the radiator and the motherboard, and therefore also between the 3rd ventilator and the power supply.
My GPU block was not perfectly flat so I used zip-ties to make it flat.
This is the space I had with the Scythe fan.
This is where I put the side radiator, that means the loop order is different from before, now it's TX240 > CPU > TX120 > GPU > TX240...
I received a new order from MDPC-X, see that Crimping Tool?
Well it's an awesome one, I just love this one compared to the pin destroyer I bought from Amazon, it made my life so much easier and my cables very sturdy.
So I started making my GPU custom cable (sleeved).
It looks like this comparaed to the original
When installed it looks like this
I think what would be best for my build is to reduce the length of the original wires from Corsair.
What I did I could do better with more time but if you are wondering wether you should make your own cables or buy some from @pslate (for example) my advice is buy from them.
I did it for fun, I did it to learn, and seriously, it was hard, long and frustrating until it worked, then I was happy.
The sleeving process including heat shrink and getting a nice looking cable is actually difficult.
Also, my preference goes towards unsleeved.
I like the idea of a space optimized case. I will probably do an unsleeved version of all the cables I already made.
I also made custom Y fan cables and cables, on the top the old wires on the bottom the ones I made.
I took the feet of another case and I mounted them in place of the originals, I wanted to allow better ventilation of the case.
In the end it didn't change anything.
I used allen screws and a bolt for each screw as a spacer between the fan and the GPU waterblock to make sure there will always be room for airflow even if the side panels are pushed.
I think the placement of the 120mm radiator couldn't be better as it has access to the hole at the bottom of the case, the hole created with spacers on top and there is nothing to its left.
Next week I will apply liquid metal
but I'm not going to delid the processor because I don't feel ready yet.I'm also thinking of sanding some 25mm fans like we discussed earlier and sanding the side 15mm fan.
If I could put 3x25mm and 1x15mm I think it would be cool.
What do you think about all this?
See you later!
Hey mate!
I received this today!
I disassembled and removed the previous thermal paste (Arctic MX4) using alcohol and the TG Remover.
Turns out I could've been a surgeon!
Now let's do the graphics card, the red thing is the TG Shield.
Then I put everything back together, leak tested etc...and I ran the benchmark.
And you're not going to believe it!!!
It doesn't change anything LOL!! It's like the same as before with Arctic MX4.
It might be that the Liquid Metal is applied wrong?
If you have experience with this, let me know
I received this today!
I disassembled and removed the previous thermal paste (Arctic MX4) using alcohol and the TG Remover.
Turns out I could've been a surgeon!
Now let's do the graphics card, the red thing is the TG Shield.
Then I put everything back together, leak tested etc...and I ran the benchmark.
And you're not going to believe it!!!
It doesn't change anything LOL!!
It's like the same as before with Arctic MX4.It might be that the Liquid Metal is applied wrong?
If you have experience with this, let me know
You I also
Yup I also have this booked marked. Super cool. Currently this is on a long list of to-dos
Hey mate!
I sanded down the side fan so it's like an NF-A12x12~13 right now
I made two unsleeved cables for my GPU also (8 to 8 pins and 8 to 6 pins).
Was able to add one bolt on the screws!
Updated benchmark spreadsheet (better everyday!):
See you soon!
I sanded down the side fan so it's like an NF-A12x12~13 right now
I made two unsleeved cables for my GPU also (8 to 8 pins and 8 to 6 pins).
Was able to add one bolt on the screws!
Updated benchmark spreadsheet (better everyday!):
See you soon!
No no it's the room temperature, I have a dedicated sensor going out of the case plugged into the Quadro. It's so long it goes under the desk actually. I'll put a picture later.
As for the variations, it's because I run benchmarks at different times and sometimes the window is opened
Edit:
Here you go!
As for the variations, it's because I run benchmarks at different times and sometimes the window is opened
Edit:
Here you go!
Last edited:
Hey mate!
You know I applied Liquid Metal everywhere. This week I noticed a few things.
First, my GPU the 2080 Super has underclocked memory out of the box, so I started pushing it higher, like +1150Mhz higher (it can go even higher). It's very stable so far, I play Cyberpunk 2077 like this (I love the game so far).
I also noticed that under Unigine Heaven 4.0, the card would start thermal throttling past 65°C, it is something I didn't notice before and I'm not sure at this time if it's due to a bad LM application (which I certainly did apply badly!) or the memory overclock. I need to run more tests like no OC at all and, lower fan RPM.
Edit: just tested, it happens without OC.
Edit2: See
I also know I can go from 93~ avg FPS to 100+ avg FPS under Heaven when overclocking the GPU but that's another story.
In my opinion, the card should be able to reach much higher temperature (like 80~°C) without thermal throttling.
Anyway, crazy stuff got delivered today!
I choose not to choose, meaning both direct die and relid are doable.
Also I've been made aware that the Aquanaut doesn't match the performance of high-end cpu waterblocks.
While I'm very happy with it, I honestly didn't even think about this before. With a 240 side radiator it was mandatory to use the Aquanaut but with a 120mm side rad I should have enough room to have the pump on it's own on the GPU side.
Still thinking about this but I see no point in deliding and then loosing performance on the cooler. Sounds sketchy to me.
Best part is this of course! I need to sand them down without damaging them
I'll keep you updated on this, need to benchmark between every upgrade. Don't want to mess anything up.
If you have any thoughts, let me know.
You know I applied Liquid Metal everywhere. This week I noticed a few things.
First, my GPU the 2080 Super has underclocked memory out of the box, so I started pushing it higher, like +1150Mhz higher (it can go even higher). It's very stable so far, I play Cyberpunk 2077 like this (I love the game so far).
I also noticed that under Unigine Heaven 4.0, the card would start thermal throttling past 65°C, it is something I didn't notice before and I'm not sure at this time if it's due to a bad LM application (which I certainly did apply badly!) or the memory overclock. I need to run more tests like no OC at all and, lower fan RPM.
Edit: just tested, it happens without OC.
Edit2: See
I also know I can go from 93~ avg FPS to 100+ avg FPS under Heaven when overclocking the GPU but that's another story.
In my opinion, the card should be able to reach much higher temperature (like 80~°C) without thermal throttling.
Anyway, crazy stuff got delivered today!
I choose not to choose, meaning both direct die and relid are doable.
Also I've been made aware that the Aquanaut doesn't match the performance of high-end cpu waterblocks.
While I'm very happy with it, I honestly didn't even think about this before. With a 240 side radiator it was mandatory to use the Aquanaut but with a 120mm side rad I should have enough room to have the pump on it's own on the GPU side.
Still thinking about this but I see no point in deliding and then loosing performance on the cooler. Sounds sketchy to me.
Best part is this of course! I need to sand them down without damaging them
I'll keep you updated on this, need to benchmark between every upgrade. Don't want to mess anything up.
If you have any thoughts, let me know.
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Couldn't wait for the chromax edition, could you? 
Seriously though, it's great to see so many iterations with actual testing for each of them!
Regarding the thermal throttleing, I'm absolutely no afterburner expert, but I've noticed that there is a tab in the frequency/voltage curve window that configures the thermal throttleing curves: Maybe this was unintentionally changed, or can be used to fix the behavior?
Seriously though, it's great to see so many iterations with actual testing for each of them!
Regarding the thermal throttleing, I'm absolutely no afterburner expert, but I've noticed that there is a tab in the frequency/voltage curve window that configures the thermal throttleing curves: Maybe this was unintentionally changed, or can be used to fix the behavior?
Hey mate!
I sanded real quick, it's not perfectly flat but it fits. It kinda broke my heart at first (for like a minute) because they were packaged so well.
There's also a top panel bulge but I was in a hurry so, I was like, lets go benchmarking!
Before sanding
Let's try to protect the fans!
Between sanding the two fans
Result
Benchmark results comparison and observations
Note that we are comparing Green 3x15mm + 1x15mm (side) and Red 2x25mm + 1x15mm (side), same fan curve (same %), sounds the same to me.
I didn't have time to drain my loop and add the 3rd fan today and it was worth testing this 2x A12x25 pull configuration IMO.
I can't imagine the gains will be as high as I want them with that 3rd 25mm fan though. I'm betting on ~1°C something like that. I think I'll want to try a push configuration also.
We will see, and as always, I'll let you know mate
I sanded real quick, it's not perfectly flat but it fits. It kinda broke my heart at first (for like a minute) because they were packaged so well.
There's also a top panel bulge but I was in a hurry so, I was like, lets go benchmarking!
Before sanding
Let's try to protect the fans!
Between sanding the two fans
Result
Benchmark results comparison and observations
Note that we are comparing Green 3x15mm + 1x15mm (side) and Red 2x25mm + 1x15mm (side), same fan curve (same %), sounds the same to me.
I didn't have time to drain my loop and add the 3rd fan today and it was worth testing this 2x A12x25 pull configuration IMO.
I can't imagine the gains will be as high as I want them with that 3rd 25mm fan though. I'm betting on ~1°C something like that. I think I'll want to try a push configuration also.
We will see, and as always, I'll let you know mate
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Hey mate!
I have some more content on a few topics today
GPU thermal throttling
I opened my GPU waterblock and removed the Liquid Metal, here's how it looks like after using it.
I put back some Arctic MX4 and the GPU doesn't throttle anymore, went past 67°C last night covering part of the computer with a towel lol!
I ran a full OC last night and the only problem was Power Limit, and I can't do anything about that
Contaminated Loop, cables turning yellow
I have told you about this already but my EK Duraclear keeps turning yellow. The fact is I never cleaned any component of the loop...
I have cleaned all components today, waterblocks, radiators, fittings with hot soapy water and a brush, then I rinsed with distilled water and then I ran the loop with some more distilled water and then I drained it in the sink and put back some Cryofuel.
Both Duraclear tubing and Cryofuel are new.
I really hope it is the end of it.
Ew...
I also had to find a way to route tubing with that big fan underneath the radiator....
Deliding, going direct die.
This kit is really good, it was damn easy.
I was in a hurry (as usual) and used a flat screwdriver to lift the IHS and I ripped and scratched the surface of the die.
I don't think you can see it in the pictures but there was a line where there was no more indium solder...I felt so dumb and furious!!!
Then I prayed to Lady Luck because she's always been good to me (I have strong luck) and went on with the process.
Poof!
Indium solder...
Indium solder gone (their "Quicksilver solder remover" works really well, this whole kit is awesome)...now let's Flitz this!
Shiny polished die
Direct die!! Thin layer of Liquid Metal on both sides (actually I made it thinner than this after taking the picture).
This is the configuration I will post about in an hour or so...(with the case closed obviously).
See ya!
I have some more content on a few topics today
GPU thermal throttling
I opened my GPU waterblock and removed the Liquid Metal, here's how it looks like after using it.
I put back some Arctic MX4 and the GPU doesn't throttle anymore, went past 67°C last night covering part of the computer with a towel lol!
I ran a full OC last night and the only problem was Power Limit, and I can't do anything about that
Contaminated Loop, cables turning yellow
I have told you about this already but my EK Duraclear keeps turning yellow. The fact is I never cleaned any component of the loop...
I have cleaned all components today, waterblocks, radiators, fittings with hot soapy water and a brush, then I rinsed with distilled water and then I ran the loop with some more distilled water and then I drained it in the sink and put back some Cryofuel.
Both Duraclear tubing and Cryofuel are new.
I really hope it is the end of it.
Ew...
I also had to find a way to route tubing with that big fan underneath the radiator....
Deliding, going direct die.
This kit is really good, it was damn easy.
I was in a hurry (as usual) and used a flat screwdriver to lift the IHS and I ripped and scratched the surface of the die.
I don't think you can see it in the pictures but there was a line where there was no more indium solder...I felt so dumb and furious!!!
Then I prayed to Lady Luck because she's always been good to me (I have strong luck) and went on with the process.
Poof!
Indium solder...
Indium solder gone (their "Quicksilver solder remover" works really well, this whole kit is awesome)...now let's Flitz this!
Shiny polished die
Direct die!! Thin layer of Liquid Metal on both sides (actually I made it thinner than this after taking the picture).
This is the configuration I will post about in an hour or so...(with the case closed obviously).
See ya!
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It's me again!
Here are the benchmark results.
This shows the difference between:
As expected, CPU temperatures are a little lower with the delid (10th gen doesn't benefit much) and the temperature delta is around 2°C lower with the push-pull configuration.
Since the window was opened during 1 of the tests (delided - pull), ambiant air was 2°c cooler. The temperature delta is high on this one, which is odd.
I think it should be tested again, but in my opinion the push-pull configuration looks better so I won't do it unless someone's really interested.
This show the difference between:
So there you have it, this is the difference between 15mm fans and sanded 25mm fans, around 1°C less temperature delta.
Even with the delid, the difference isn't much and to be honest sound wise I'm not even sure the sound profile is better.
I'm happy with 43,5 water temperature though, and I will now proceed to OC the GPU as much as I can to increase gaming performance.
I will probably look into a better CPU waterblock to improve CPU cooling performance since I can put the pump somewhere else having only a 120mm side radiator.
I think it can wait the watercooled (or aircooled?) 3080 TI though
I will be spending some time playing Cyberpunk now
What do you think about all this? Did you expect better performance?
Would you like me to test something else?
See you mate!
Here are the benchmark results.
This shows the difference between:
- Non-delided CPU with 2x NF-A12x25 pull + 1x NF-A12x15 (side) in Red
- Delided CPU with 2x NF-A12x25 pull + 1x NF-A12x15 (side) in Green
- Delided CPU with 3x NF-A12x25 push-pull + 1x NF-A12x15 (side) in Blue
As expected, CPU temperatures are a little lower with the delid (10th gen doesn't benefit much) and the temperature delta is around 2°C lower with the push-pull configuration.
Since the window was opened during 1 of the tests (delided - pull), ambiant air was 2°c cooler. The temperature delta is high on this one, which is odd.
I think it should be tested again, but in my opinion the push-pull configuration looks better so I won't do it unless someone's really interested.
This show the difference between:
- Non-delided CPU with 3x NF-A12x15 push-pull + 1x NF-A12x15 (side) in Red
- Delided CPU with 3x NF-A12x25 push-pull + 1x NF-A12x15 (side) in Green
So there you have it, this is the difference between 15mm fans and sanded 25mm fans, around 1°C less temperature delta.
Even with the delid, the difference isn't much and to be honest sound wise I'm not even sure the sound profile is better.
I'm happy with 43,5 water temperature though, and I will now proceed to OC the GPU as much as I can to increase gaming performance.
I will probably look into a better CPU waterblock to improve CPU cooling performance since I can put the pump somewhere else having only a 120mm side radiator.
I think it can wait the watercooled (or aircooled?) 3080 TI though
I will be spending some time playing Cyberpunk now
What do you think about all this? Did you expect better performance?
Would you like me to test something else?
See you mate!
Oh wow, it is so crazy that there would be only so little difference in both performance and noise between the 15mm and 25mm thick fans.
Didn't I see someone on reddit recently that had showed benchmarks where the 25mm outperformed the 15mm even at lower RPM?
What the hell is going on?
Great plan!
Didn't I see someone on reddit recently that had showed benchmarks where the 25mm outperformed the 15mm even at lower RPM?
What the hell is going on?
Great plan!
Didn't I see someone on reddit recently that had showed benchmarks where the 25mm outperformed the 15mm even at lower RPM?
What the hell is going on?
I honestly don't know...maybe it is simply diminishing returns past some point?
I think it's important to emphasise that my CPU is overclocked to 5Ghz full-time and that it's an Intel CPU and they run hot compared to Ryzen CPUs.
This already make the liquid hot (34+ °C) at idle compared to stock clock.
Also, not everyone uses the Aquanaut and I do not know if it's lower performance (compared to high end waterblocks) at cooling the CPU impacts the Liquid Temperature or only the CPU temperature?
IMHO this reddit user has something great going on!
/u/stanleyguan aka @stanleyguan
I also follow the these people on Reddit and they post interesting content:
/u/thelaughinghuy aka @thelaughingman
/u/wispy-matt
/u/DrHudacris aka @DrHudacris
/u/simplyfabio aka @fabio
/u/heresaredditaccount aka @JDuval
I think we can learn a lot from what they do. I have to read again everything they posted lately.
I also think we should pay attention to the testing methodology when people claim they benchmarked x or y.
I for example don't have what it takes to accurately mesure decibels and convey accurate information on that specific point.
But I do my best to meet the same testing conditions every time, and to make comparisons between major changes.
See you later!
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100% agree with this. Would be really great to do some sort of "meta review", protocolling absolute/relative results.
I think we need a reliable/repeatable load (i.e. heaven), try to estimate as good as possible how many watts CPU & GPU put into the loop, and then measure liquid temperature equilibrium point at different set fan speed percentages or RPM (30/60/100 ?). Noise normalizing is difficult, but since we basically use just 3 different kind of fans (scythe and the two noctuas), that should be relatively predictable. This doesn't represent how most of us would run the loops, but it's better for comparison than say the resulting fanspeeds when setting different target liquid temps with the aquanaut PID...
PS: My T1 arrived today, but I won't have time to build before the holidays start
Absolutely love all the testing you did. We have such a great community here!
It's a bit disappointing to see the rather small gain from using three A12x25s on top. In my setup the side TX240 would prevent me from fitting the third pushing A12x25 so I’ll have to use an A12x15 there. So the benefit might be even less.
Maybe part of it is due to the better clearance with three A12x15s. The front fan is ~15mm farther from the PSU and the rear fan has a bit of room to intake from the two sides due to the gap created from elevating the rad from the strut.
It's a bit disappointing to see the rather small gain from using three A12x25s on top. In my setup the side TX240 would prevent me from fitting the third pushing A12x25 so I’ll have to use an A12x15 there. So the benefit might be even less.
Maybe part of it is due to the better clearance with three A12x15s. The front fan is ~15mm farther from the PSU and the rear fan has a bit of room to intake from the two sides due to the gap created from elevating the rad from the strut.
Love the attention to detail documenting the delid, LM, and direct-to-die processes! Rewarding to see the results of all of that effort making a difference in testing. Looking forward to the OC results now that your cooling is optimized!
Also good to see that you deep-cleaned the loop fittings! Hopefully the yellowing will cease to exist from here on out.
Also good to see that you deep-cleaned the loop fittings! Hopefully the yellowing will cease to exist from here on out.
