Easy: duct tape a few Polaris dies onto a Vega 128 for Ray tracing. Happy now?
All kidding aside, how does AMD implement Ray tracing through software? Do they just dedicate stream processors to it? Or am I thoroughly untechnical?
GPU Geforce 20 series (RTX) discussion thread (E: 2070 Review unbargo!)
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All kidding aside, how does AMD implement Ray tracing through software? Do they just dedicate stream processors to it? Or am I thoroughly untechnical?
You can design circuits whose only job is Ray trace. AMD design is very powerful but generalized compute cores. They'll certainly lose in the ray trace race unless they design specialized cores for it. It may end up ray tracing is still couple generations away from being on the mainstream but mindshare and marketing is valuable.
People are too gullible and tribal, you look at Jay's video and GN's video and they are at the opposite extremes of opinion. Plenty to criticize in both pieces, yet you look at the response and it's highly positive to both.
Jay basically said it's a new technology so 30-40 FPS at 1080p for $1200 is totally fine despite the hype, and $1200 for a 2080 Ti makes perfect sense because it's essentially the new Titan. And no acknowledgment of modest non-RT performance gains/RT adoption rate/cost-benefit analysis of adopting RT so early vs. waiting for 7nm.
Steve on the other hand -- Don't preorder under any circumstance, there is no opportunity cost to enthusiasts in waiting months to get a $1200 card at MSRP, totally fine to get a 1080 Ti for $550 at EOL, no acknowledgment of the difference between purchasing/keeping and preordering in the context of limited supply, plus random jabs at RT.
Perfectly illustrates the extremes in coverage so far. I think I managed to find the happy medium as I preordered, but will wait for benchmarks.
Jay basically said it's a new technology so 30-40 FPS at 1080p for $1200 is totally fine despite the hype, and $1200 for a 2080 Ti makes perfect sense because it's essentially the new Titan. And no acknowledgment of modest non-RT performance gains/RT adoption rate/cost-benefit analysis of adopting RT so early vs. waiting for 7nm.
Steve on the other hand -- Don't preorder under any circumstance, there is no opportunity cost to enthusiasts in waiting months to get a $1200 card at MSRP, totally fine to get a 1080 Ti for $550 at EOL, no acknowledgment of the difference between purchasing/keeping and preordering in the context of limited supply, plus random jabs at RT.
Perfectly illustrates the extremes in coverage so far. I think I managed to find the happy medium as I preordered, but will wait for benchmarks.
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I agree with this, but I don't think it tracks GN's video exactly. In my post that you quoted, I address all of those points + more context.
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I get it, I mean I see where you are coming from. With a preorder you are at least getting the card close-ish to retail right? The price could spike after launch, especially depending on benchmark results. While I still think it is a gamble, you could save money preordering if you know you are going to buy it anyway. I'd say to most gamers would probably be better off just buying a cheaper 10 series card, but again the jury is still out. I wouldn't take Steve's message personally anyway, I think he was mainly reacting to how ridiculous the Tom's hardware article was.
Has anyone else read this?:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/08/28/nvidia_controls_aib_launch_driver_distribution/
The effort they are going to, to conceal real world performance of these cards is staggering.
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/08/28/nvidia_controls_aib_launch_driver_distribution/
The effort they are going to, to conceal real world performance of these cards is staggering.
So, this is mainly about 'control' of review of pre-launched cards?
After a new card is launched, everybody has access and there is nothing to be hidden. No big deal.
But before that, only reviewers have access and Nvidia wants certain control. Reviewers (and media) are not totally neutral. Some are friendly and some are hostile and some are just chameloen. So, a company wanting its pre-launched product to be in the hands of 'approved' reviewers can be understood.
This does not affect me at all, as I never pre-order a graphics card. And frankly, a review site doing this kind of review just cannot be exaggerating. Once bitten, twice shy. The credibility can go away very quickly.
They are definitely managing this release in ways that we haven't really seen before. So of course there are a lot of assumptions about how the performance is going to be sub par etc. Are they now exerting a lot of top down control after the GPP fallout and this is how its going to be from now on? Anyone's guess really and the internet is ablaze with discussions and all out flame wars. All press is good press as they say.
For me? They are playing it so close to the chest and not bringing ANY hard numbers at all while taking promises to pay. Still not a good look. Its just not.
Nividia will still have the fastest GPU out there and if someone needs/wants that then they will pay to play. Been that way forever.
For me? They are playing it so close to the chest and not bringing ANY hard numbers at all while taking promises to pay. Still not a good look. Its just not.
Nividia will still have the fastest GPU out there and if someone needs/wants that then they will pay to play. Been that way forever.
Yes, plus the big thing everyone is ignoring is that you can cancel your preorder on September 18th and I'm sure we'll have plenty of performance leaks by then if not full-on reviews. There was just a Time Spy benchmark leak, which showed the 2080 performing on par with a 1080 Ti in non-RT, in line with expectations. If you can get a used 1080 Ti for $400 maybe it's worth going that route, but I think if the difference is less than $200, a new 2080 is a better option.
It's not using any dedicated hardware for raytracing, just running it as GPGPU like you can on any other card (e.g. 10xx series). AMD also haven;t announced DXR support yet, though I'd expect them to at some point even if they don't have any sort of hardware implementation ready for the next few years.
HardOCP like their teacup-storms.
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Edit: Nevermind, I just read @EdZ's response and he is very convincing.
Anyway, tin-foil hat on, does anyone think that maybe this is all part of NVIDIA's strategy to sell more of the 10 Series? There must be a ton of stock remaining considering they missed their crypto-related sales projection by $82 million...
Anyway, tin-foil hat on, does anyone think that maybe this is all part of NVIDIA's strategy to sell more of the 10 Series? There must be a ton of stock remaining considering they missed their crypto-related sales projection by $82 million...
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If that was a concern, they could just not have announced Turing yet (and kept stockpiling dies for launch). 10xx series cards are barely dipping back to launch pricing, so it's not as if anyone is having any difficulty in moving stock.
I also pre-ordered the 2080ti just as it went live. However, I did so only because im coming from a GTX670 (have had it since it came out) and was already going to upgrade to a 1080ti, but since the 2080 was announced I figured I might as well go for the latest and greatest. I was definitely disappointed when it was about 600$ more than what I was thinking it was going to be. But still pulled the trigger.
If I already had the 1080 I definitely wouldnt have done it because I would have already had one of the best cards available. Hopefully, Nvidia has built themselves one heck of a card hardware wise, and have yet to perfect the drivers to take advantage of all that power which is maybe why they are throwing up smoke and mirrors to buy them some time.
If I already had the 1080 I definitely wouldnt have done it because I would have already had one of the best cards available. Hopefully, Nvidia has built themselves one heck of a card hardware wise, and have yet to perfect the drivers to take advantage of all that power which is maybe why they are throwing up smoke and mirrors to buy them some time.
In the same boat.. two months ago I was ready to drop $700 on a 1080 Ti. I ended up pre-ordering the 2080 since it was around the same price, but I'm starting to regret not jumping on the 2080 Ti. I think because it's sold-out but the 2080 isn't. Sometimes I'm just a sucker for these things.
This might also be a matter of what the cards cost for the sellers. If a GTX 1080 (MSRP 549,-) costs for example 450,- there's little room to move the sale price lower. Considering the new cards aren't out yet and is priced a lot higher, there might still be an amount of overstock (or there might have been previous quarter), we'll only know after a few months. Nvidia cards are also quite stable in price, or atleast used to be when SLI was still a thing.
Everything I've heard say all the AiBs do have an overstock.
Supposedly Nvidia ordered a lot more cards than they needed to trying to cash in on the crypto boom, and have left their partners to eat any losses associated with excess inventory.
Supposedly Nvidia ordered a lot more cards than they needed to trying to cash in on the crypto boom, and have left their partners to eat any losses associated with excess inventory.
Almost seems like NVidia would be happy being the only ones selling GPUs.... especially with their new FE design.
Makes total sense. By sacrificing some rasterization performance gains and introducing RTX, they have established a solid win-win situation for themselves:
A) Deplete Pascal overstock at discounted prices, or
B) Charge a hefty premium for RTX tech
Whether you're on a budget or willing to ball-out, you're probably choosing NVIDIA over AMD. And that's really all they want to accomplish right now.
Nvidia sell the dies. AIBs buy the RAM and other components, design and make the heatsinks (or make from design for Ref/FE), design and make the PCBs (or make from design for Ref/FE cards), and assembly (well, AIBs contract the OEMs who do the actual hand-on manufacture). As with every GPU, price-per-die drops throughout production as setup costs are amortised away and process yields improve through experience, with per-die costs at the end of life tending towards pure production cost.
If AIBs estimated demand for 10k cards, order 10k dies form Nvidia, then decide "we don't want 10k dies now", then whether they are still stuck with 10k dies to sell depends on whether the purchase order they signed included a get-out clause. Likely not because Nvidia do not want to be stuck with extra dies because an AIB partner got their numbers wrong.
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