Production FormD T1 Classic (READ FIRST POST)

[fabio]

I believe @fabio concluded the TX240 was a couple of degrees cooler than the EK classic SE. Not sure how both of those compare to LT240 bit I think the XSPC will still outperform it, as the classic SE and LT have similar fin density.

The SE Classic and the AC 240LT were on par, but with better quality on the EKWB one.
The TX240 was 1/2 degrees better, but is really noticeable only in test and checking numbers.

BUT, this is true for a full loop with a Titan RTX and a Ryzen 3950X.
With only the CPU in the loop there will be zero differences IMO.

The main differences with the setup with 1 slim fan and 1 25mm fan are:

EKWB SE Classic is the hardest to fit. If everything is not perfectly placed, the small pressure on the radiator can give problems regarding the slim fan spinning. You need to be precise. You have zero tolerance.

AC 240LT, easier to fit, no available alone, but as everyone know, has the best and safe fit

XPSC TX240, denser for fins stack, the slim fan has to spin a bit faster to move air through. It is 125mm in width, and you have to push a bit to fit it inside the front panel. Also for it, you will have zero-tolerance. The pressure of the top panel can give an issue for the slim fan spinning.

 

[fabio]

@Deke @DrLeroy @gwertheim

I will try to answer one time for all:

I love the EKWB 10/16 ZMT, but for noobie or with people with no patience can be painful. The fittings are thicker, the tubes are thick. You need to choose properly the blocks, routing, cables, etc.
Because of their thickness, you can bend them pretty strong and they don't kink. Because of this stiffness, the curves allowed are less deep than with the 10/13 though.

They are called ZMT for Zero Maintenance Tube. Having a thicker section, they bring to almost zero the possibilities for the coolant to evaporate. The texture is a bit matte of super high quality.

The thinner alternative is the Alphacool HF TPV 8/13. The behaviors are the same as the ZMT. Maybe they are a bit stiffer. The texture is more matte though.
The drawback is that you will have only 1 option for the compression fittings, and is the Alphacool TPV one (You can of course use any other brand that does 8mm barbed fittings). The painting is pretty cheap, but even if the fittings seem loose, especially the 90 degrees, even stressing them, pulling and pushing, didn't give to me ANY leaking. For me, this is the 2nd choice.

The third choice is the 10/13 tubing. It's true that they are thinner and they bend easily, BUT, if the curves are too deep, they kink. Maybe it seems ok at the beginning, but they can kink after. Just be careful.
I've personally tried the EPDM in this size. I was able to find them only on the watercool.de website. I didn't like them. Too soft, and pretty "dirty".
Personally, if you want to go with this size, I suggest the EK DuraClear Transparent. Are free of plasticizer, super clear, and stiffer, so they kink with more difficulty.

I hope this post will clarify the tubing choices for most of you!

 

[DrLeroy]

-------------------------------------------------------------TRIM---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
XPSC TX240, denser for fin, the slim fan has to spin a bit faster to move air through. It is 125mm in width, and you have to push a bit to fit it inside the front panel. Also for it, you will have zero-tolerance. The pressure of the top panel can give an issue for the slim fan spinning.

When you say to push a bit to fit, this is width-wise correct? I've got the TX240 on the way and 2 slim noctuas,
what's the best setup, fans against top panel or radiator against the top panel(or bottom panel depending on case orientation)?

 

[fabio]

When you say to push a bit to fit, this is width-wise correct? I've got the TX240 on the way and 2 slim noctuas,
what's the best setup, fans against top panel or radiator?

Nope it is in height-top/down direction.
The top panel has 2 guides in the interior part, to keep blocked the mesh panel. These two pop-out almost 7mm, and the space between them is exactly 120mm.

Because of this, the TX240 cannot go INSIDE them, so cannot be pushed against the top panel completely.
This 2 top panel's wings will touch a bit the radiator from the top, when used with the fans in between it and the motherboard, giving to it and to the fans a bit of pressure.

If you will use 2 slim fans on top, there is no problem. BUT, you lose quite a bit of performance. The 25mm fan makes really a difference.

So, my suggestion if you want to use it, is to have the radiator on top, 1 25mm fan and 1 slim fan in between the rad and the motherboard.
But again, you have zero-tolerance.

About the orientation, the bottom mount is a suicide temp-wise.

 

[Killdoc]

Nope it is in height-top/down direction.
The top panel has 2 guides in the interior part, to keep blocked the mesh panel. These two pop-out almost 7mm, and the space between them is exactly 120mm.

Because of this, the TX240 cannot go INSIDE them, so cannot be pushed against the top panel completely.
This 2 top panel's wings will touch a bit the radiator from the top, when used with the fans in between it and the motherboard, giving to it and to the fans a bit of pressure.

If you will use 2 slim fans on top, there is no problem. BUT, you lose quite a bit of performance. The 25mm fan makes really a difference.

So, my suggestion if you want to use it, is to have the radiator on top, 1 25mm fan and 1 slim fan in between the rad and the motherboard.
But again, you have zero-tolerance.

About the orientation, the bottom mount is a suicide temp-wise.

Looking at the inside of the top panel (pictures only, since I do not have the T1), I can see the mesh panel quide lip that @fabio was indicating would interfere with a 125mm wide radiator. I had not notice that before in my planning for my loop. Thank you for pointing it out. So let me ask you, we you able to actually close the top panel and the mesh sides with the TX240? Or was the top bulging out as I would expect? I had also considered using a 15mm and 25mm fan for my build.

In addition, did you ever find a workable solution for the warping you were finding on the server pump/reservoir that you had been trying out? I was truly fascinated with how clean that build looked, but was disappointed with the potential for leakage you were experiencing.

Finally, most sincere thanks again to @DrHudacris and @gwertheim for your earlier responses. I highly appreciate your input. I had not been aware of the difference in fin density between these radiators.

 

[Killdoc]

Check out @fabio build log

FormD T1 - 9.5L with UNLIMITED space!! - 3950X+64GB Ram+2GPUs - TITAN V FULL watercooled+TITAN RTX!! Fill the void 2.0

And again, here we are!! After 1 year and a half from my 2nd build (BTW, CHECK IT HERE if you didn't) I've moved part of it with new addition in a smaller case: THE FormD T1 !! This case is a small CNCed Aluminum jewel! I am so happy to got the possibility to be in the test shipping phase...

smallformfactor.net

I think all his builds and part lists are there

I highly appreciate your input. And I had actually save a bookmart of @fabio's build log in my web browsers significantly stuffed "Future Build" folder. I had totally forgotten it was there. Thank you for the kind reminder.

 

[PBJ]

@Deke @DrLeroy @gwertheim

I will try to answer one time for all:

I love the EKWB 10/16 ZMT, but for noobie or with people with no patience can be painful. The fittings are thicker, the tubes are thick. You need to choose properly the blocks, routing, cables, etc.
Because of their thickness, you can bend them pretty strong and they don't kink. Because of this stiffness, the curves allowed are less deep than with the 10/13 though.

They are called ZMT for Zero Maintenance Tube. Having a thicker section, they bring to almost zero the possibilities for the coolant to evaporate. The texture is a bit matte of super high quality.

The thinner alternative is the Alphacool HF TPV 8/13. The behaviors are the same as the ZMT. Maybe they are a bit stiffer. The texture is more matte though.
The drawback is that you will have only 1 option for the compression fittings, and is the Alphacool TPV one (You can of course use any other brand that does 8mm barbed fittings). The painting is pretty cheap, but even if the fittings seem loose, especially the 90 degrees, even stressing them, pulling and pushing, didn't give to me ANY leaking. For me, this is the 2nd choice.

The third choice is the 10/13 tubing. It's true that they are thinner and they bend easily, BUT, if the curves are too deep, they kink. Maybe it seems ok at the beginning, but they can kink after. Just be careful.
I've personally tried the EPDM in this size. I was able to find them only on the watercool.de website. I didn't like them. Too soft, and pretty "dirty".
Personally, if you want to go with this size, I suggest the EK DuraClear Transparent. Are free of plasticizer, super clear, and stiffer, so they kink with more difficulty.

I hope this post will clarify the tubing choices for most of you!

First time custom loop here. I went with the Alphacool TPV myself and can confirm they are pretty stiff. They were a bit difficult to fit and ended up trying the “Get in there b*tch!” approach.

Great tubing, but recommend planning before hand.

 

[ggrifter]

Even the EK AIO has issues. The pump-block is a bit too tall for the 3 slot mode, so you may notice a slight bulge of the side panel. These caveats and asterisks with the 240 AIOs are why there is no official support for 240 AIOs. Even the LT240 has limitations.

Wait. Really?? Under the useful links excel, there were two links that say the EK aio 240 fits in both 2 and 3 slot config. I also see @Wahaha360 made a comment about removing the anti vibration pads on the slim fan to get it to fit correctly. Perhaps i misunderstand something... I really may have screwed the pooch on this one fellas

 

[DrHudacris]

Wait. Really?? Under the useful links excel, there were two links that say the EK aio 240 fits in both 2 and 3 slot config. I also see @Wahaha360 made a comment about removing the anti vibration pads on the slim fan to get it to fit correctly. Perhaps i misunderstand something... I really may have screwed the pooch on this one fellas

It fits in 2 slot mode, but in 3 slot mode it's a few mm too tall for the CPU side and bulges the side panel slightly. You're ok if you don't mind the bulge or if you plan to use 2 slot mode.

 

[ggrifter]

It fits in 2 slot mode, but in 3 slot mode it's a few mm too tall for the CPU side and bulges the side panel slightly. You're ok if you don't mind the bulge or if you plan to use 2 slot mode.

That's too bad. Thanks for the reply. I suppose if I can't cancel my order for the ek aio 240, then the ncase m1 is in the cards for me. That or I try to mod the side panel to fit flush..... Hmmmm

 

[Daemos]

So it looks like the easiest course for 240mm watercooling with future expandability in this case at the moment is:

LT240 with 25mm and 15mm fan with stock fittings and it should fit with the Gigabyte X570 itx board...maybe replace the hoses with some alternate 11/8 hoses (which seems difficult to find)

If new non 11/8 hoses are needed then hopefully find some 13/8 fittings that will fit...alternatively swap out the pump for the Apogee Drive II which seems to have better clearance for fittings to fit within the confines of the crowded motherboard. Hopefuly, (@fabio) can chime in for this one...

Or wait for the RGB version of the LT240 which has better hoses stock, which hopefully still has a 25mm rad.

 

[PKAWA]

So it looks like the easiest course for 240mm watercooling with future expandability in this case at the moment is:

LT240 with 25mm and 15mm fan with stock fittings and it should fit with the Gigabyte X570 itx board...maybe replace the hoses with some alternate 11/8 hoses (which seems difficult to find)

If new non 11/8 hoses are needed then hopefully find some 13/8 fittings that will fit...alternatively swap out the pump for the Apogee Drive II which seems to have better clearance for fittings to fit within the confines of the crowded motherboard. Hopefuly, (@fabio) can chime in for this one...

Or wait for the RGB version of the LT240 which has better hoses stock, which hopefully still has a 25mm rad.

Here you go for the 11/8 hoses.
Tygon R6010

I have looked at the apogee too and with 61.5mm you'll be confined to two slot gpu set-up of the case. Mine's already 2.5. Other than that on paper the pump is better but when compared to the AC lt pump irl they perform similar.

 

[fabio]

It fits in 2 slot mode, but in 3 slot mode it's a few mm too tall for the CPU side and bulges the side panel slightly. You're ok if you don't mind the bulge or if you plan to use 2 slot mode.

I am sure that it will be only 1mm taller, and it's not noticeable at all! Who is looking at the case from the front, straight, focusing on that? The Optimum Tech top bulge with the 30mm rad is WAY MORE strong.

I will be more worried about the rad thickness of 28mm.

 

[fabio]

That's too bad. Thanks for the reply. I suppose if I can't cancel my order for the ek aio 240, then the ncase m1 is in the cards for me. That or I try to mod the side panel to fit flush..... Hmmmm

Try it for us!!

 

[fabio]

So let me ask you, we you able to actually close the top panel and the mesh sides with the TX240? Or was the top bulging out as I would expect?

Did I wrote that it was bulging wherever or having any issue apart the one written? Nope, so it doesn't.

In addition, did you ever find a workable solution for the warping you were finding on the server pump/reservoir that you had been trying out? I was truly fascinated with how clean that build looked, but was disappointed with the potential for leakage you were experiencing.

Nope, tried the epoxy glue, with some clamp for 24 hours, but didn't work. I've bought a new one, but didn't try. Fuck Alphacool and it's low quality check and bad support.
The TPV tubing and fittings are the only real good stuff from them in quality that I've tried recently. (Apart the Eisdecke DDC BRASS TOP, ahahahah!)

 

[chinyang]

Update 2020-06-09: I want to make make the C13 to C14 angle power supply cable 30mm or 1.25in longer, if any objections, let me me know asap!

Australia, Wyd4, Austria, Cyberratchet Canada, johannbl, Denmark, fabio, Finland, Benihana, France, Vaux, Germany, theexplainer, Japan, hengster, South Korea, ahs8225, Italy, Metroversal, Malaysia, chinyang, Netherlands, Floris, New Zealand, tyen, Norway, Stigth, Poland, bynio, Portugal, nulio, Saudi Arabia, darky122, Singapore, heckinwoofer, Spain, prava, Sweden, Thermo, Turkey, cablez, Ukraine, denys_349, United Kingdom, Goatee, USA - California, bpark919, USA - NYC/CT/MA, Kundahli, USA - Texas, Navic, USA - Texas, DrHudacris, USA - Other, PBJ, USA - Other, Brude27, USA - Other, pslate, Uzbekistan, Basriy

no problem

 

[tyen]

Update 2020-06-09: I want to make make the C13 to C14 angle power supply cable 30mm or 1.25in longer, if any objections, let me me know asap!

Australia, Wyd4, Austria, Cyberratchet Canada, johannbl, Denmark, fabio, Finland, Benihana, France, Vaux, Germany, theexplainer, Japan, hengster, South Korea, ahs8225, Italy, Metroversal, Malaysia, chinyang, Netherlands, Floris, New Zealand, tyen, Norway, Stigth, Poland, bynio, Portugal, nulio, Saudi Arabia, darky122, Singapore, heckinwoofer, Spain, prava, Sweden, Thermo, Turkey, cablez, Ukraine, denys_349, United Kingdom, Goatee, USA - California, bpark919, USA - NYC/CT/MA, Kundahli, USA - Texas, Navic, USA - Texas, DrHudacris, USA - Other, PBJ, USA - Other, Brude27, USA - Other, pslate, Uzbekistan, Basriy

No problem here.
However on the subject of the power cable: I do not know if this is the case for everyone, but I've found that the socket which the power cable plugs into has a lot of wiggle and give. I am worried that the clips holding it in place may break if I'm not very gentle with it.
I feel it would be nicer if the power cable was more securely fastened.

 

[Daemos]

Here you go for the 11/8 hoses.
Tygon R6010

I have looked at the apogee too and with 61.5mm you'll be confined to two slot gpu set-up of the case. Mine's already 2.5. Other than that on paper the pump is better but when compared to the AC lt pump irl they perform similar.

Thanks... I wonder if I can find that 11/8 hose locally (in 1 m intervals) in Australia or at least find only one shop I have to order the LT240 and hoses from as shipping costs will quickly add up if I need to buy multiple components from different sources overseas.

I don't mind 2 slot...because I only have a 2 slot GPU but it looks like it'll be much easier to find GPU fittings that fit in the case in the 3 slot config.

 

[PBJ]

No problem here.
However on the subject of the power cable: I do not know if this is the case for everyone, but I've found that the socket which the power cable plugs into has a lot of wiggle and give. I am worried that the clips holding it in place may break if I'm not very gentle with it.
I feel it would be nicer if the power cable was more securely fastened.

It’s like that for me too, but when I plug in the power cable it feels secure. However I agree it would be better if it didn’t wiggle

 

[shopan]

Amazon has 2 LT240 kit left for $119 if anyone need it.