Power Supply Dream SFF PSU??

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
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KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
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Hey Guys,

Currently speaking with a PSU manufacturer about possibly doing something with a higher wattage per litre and higher efficiency (80 Plus Unobtanium?) than anything else out there. This is very likely not going to come to fruition, but they are talking to me and are interested in seeing if any of their current projects would transition easily into an SFF based power supply. Without naming names, this would make everything else look like something of a joke in terms of W per L. I'd like a few ideas on what people in the community would ideally like to see so I can convey those ideas to the manufacturer. What I've asked for so far is:

- Preferrably Flex ATX height and width (80mm x 40.5mm) with a depth of 150mm or less. I've also considered seeing if an SFX configuration (100mm x 65mm) with flexible depth for increased case compatibility, but didn't actually mention this yet.
- Flex ATX positioning of IEC 14 inlet
- Full modularity without a harness solution including 24 pin ATX, 8 pin EPS, 8 pin PCIe and 4 pin SATA/Molex
- High efficiency fanless or with 80mm x 15mm fan or less

I'm also planning to ask for
- 350W-500W rated
- Silent operation/Semi-fanless
- Common ATX pinout for easy use of aftermarket sleeved cables (Corsair/Silverstone?)
- Black enclosure

Again, this is probably going to turn out to be vapourware, but I'd love any input the community could provide
 
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BirdofPrey

Standards Guru
Sep 3, 2015
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You forgot the sarcasm tag.

Anyways, to actually be realistic. I am more or less satisfied with DC-DC solutions like HDPlex and PicoPSU, though I'd love if the latter could squeeze a bit more wattage out of their system or allow for a decentralized system where the PicoPSU, can manage additional 12VDC power delivery that's not actually provided by the Pico itself (ie. let the Pico turn off power delivery to video cards from a second power brick, not connected to the PicoPSU).

My main gripe is that there is a dearth of internal AC-DC PSUs that can provide the same wattage to an HDPlex or PicoPSU that the DC-DC itself can provide.
 
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CXH4

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Apr 18, 2016
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I would agree that a Pico PSU rated somewhere between 300-500 watts would be fantastic (Something like a Z4 or 160XT), along with an external power brick that is meant for long term use. I am more than okay with external power bricks, but I'm not so sure about the rest of the community. However, with this I'm sure that a majority of the SFF community would be more than satisfied with this dream PSU because we could pack more power into small enclosures, as well as provide more room to put more in the chassis, potentially SLI/Crossfire, fans, etc.

I've grown a little bit distant from the ordinary methods of building a PC which is the reason I agree with the Pico solution, but for an SFX PSU...I believe something with a height of X<2, a length of X<6, and width X<3 would be something I'd like to see in dimensions (Not sure if that's reasonable lol). I believe that this would be a nice little PSU if you could get it to function with great stability but as small as possible.
 
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Phuncz

Lord of the Boards
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May 9, 2015
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I'd like a PSU for a 2,5" 12,5mm height bay please. Because almost every case has that, so no need for another cut-out (except for the mains ofcourse). Also would fit on an ATX to 2,5" adapter plate easily and with a few mm of room on one side it could even fit a SFX to 2,5" adapter. Also, you could mount it on a PCI bracket, so there would not be a case that couldn't support it somehow.

And mITX motherboards with to just 12V in, doing 3.3V and 5V on-board and SATA-power from the board like Thin ITX does.
 
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BirdofPrey

Standards Guru
Sep 3, 2015
797
493
That comment actually jogs my memory a bit about something I've always wished existed:
I wish there was a way to hook up a battery between the AC-DC and DC-DC converters; an internal UPS. Given the space requirements it obviously won't be very many watt hours, and a separate inverter would be required to power a monitor, but a couple minutes is enough to ride out many intermittent power failures, and barring that, hibernate your machine or safely shut down.

Your comment reminded me since I figured a drive bay would be a good fit for the battery packs for their ubiquity.
 

jeshikat

Jessica. Wayward SFF.n Founder
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Feb 22, 2015
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Mine would be a 800W SFX-L Titanium-rated (or higher), fully modular, with a 120mm x 15mm FDB fan, that can run fanless up to 200-300W even at elevated intake temperatures (50-60°).
 

jtd871

SFF Guru
Jun 22, 2015
1,166
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Having a largish power brick for my current gaming lappie, I'd be OK with an external brick that could sit on the floor. @BirdofPrey 's idea about an internal UPS is intriguing, but probably better kept outside the chassis like current "normal" UPSs.
 

Tek Everything

Cable-Tie Ninja
Dec 25, 2015
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tekeverything.com
An HDPlex sized internal PSU, with an external power brick (flat Voodoo 350 style) capable of handling loads up to 500W. Preferably with some sort of perforated shroud or cover for aesthetics.

Priced under $150.
 

|||

King of Cable Management
Sep 26, 2015
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Picopsu that is 80+ titanium and 1600 Watts and the power brick is the size of the psu

(While "Haha") You wouldn't really be able to do 80+ certification on just the Pico PSU, because the power brick would need to be included. 80+ is for AC to the DC output. Also, since the Pico PSU is DC-DC, it converts to AC and back to DC, pretty much scrapping your chances for a very high efficiency.

12V switching power supplies can reach up to fairly high wattage in smaller packages. Some may even have 5V secondary rails. But, the standard dimensions are 3" x 5" and I'm looking for one that would be 2" x 5" (my real constraints are 6.3" x 2.03" x 1.3" (160mm x 51.5mm x 33mm), so It could potentially be a little longer), but that is including both the joined male and female ATX connectors in that space and essentially results in something roughly the size of the HDPlex, but ingests AC. I'd also like to see something in the 350-500W, but if it's ridiculously highly efficient, then more wouldn't hurt much and provide a good margin of safety.

A passive conduction/convection thermal dissipation solution would be ideal (Seasonic is releasing a passive 600W 80+ Ti unit soon), but active cooling is okay if there are good fan curves.
 

GuilleAcoustic

Chief Procrastination Officer
SFFn Staff
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Jun 29, 2015
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Confusis, j0rd and myself have been discussing the 2.5" / 3.5" HDD sized DC-DC quite a long time ago. This brings modularity and expandability as you could have a module for ATX + EPS + Data and then buy additional modules for GPU, WC pump, etc.

With this you are less constraint buy the size and could prolly use higher rating components (chokes and heatsinks especially).

I'd also consider a DC-DC mounted on an ATX PSU bracket that would act as an heatsink. 300W on SFX bracket and 500W on ATX bracket sounds reasonable :).
 
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Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
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KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
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So just to add some clarification to the thread after discussing this further with my contact. What we are talking about here is primarily an AC to DC solution, but essentially what they are offering is quadruple the power density of traditional AC-DC applications. As an example, the HD Plex 160W AC-DC has dimensions of 150mm x 52mm X 40mm. This contact would be able to provide a 600+ watt solution in the same volume. In a more practical sense, perhaps we could get a 400W solution to pair with the HDPlex that is roughly the same size as the board (150x52x25)
 
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jeshikat

Jessica. Wayward SFF.n Founder
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Feb 22, 2015
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Have they given any indication of price or MOQ for this? I did some research last year into custom PSUs and it looked to be around $40,000-$70,000 for R&D/certification for a new PSU.
 

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
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Feb 1, 2016
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They're already doing the work, I don't think any of the financial responsibility of development would fall to us as they want to produce and sell a market ready product themselves. I am just trying to make them aware of the market for SFF computers (ie. Double brick Zotac Magnus) etc. That being said they sound keen to work with our community to help develop something.
 

jeshikat

Jessica. Wayward SFF.n Founder
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Feb 22, 2015
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Well, in that case it would make more sense to ask for something in an existing form factor. While a high-wattage internal AC-DC unit like the HDPlex would be nice, it's seems unlikely they would actually develop something like that without assurance of a large order at the end of development.

FlexATX, TFX, or SFX/SFX-L seem like good starting points.
 

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
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KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
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I think Flex would be the best option as the SFX space is already getting pretty crowded and frankly it would be much too large a form factor for what we are talking about. Additionally with the current generation of hardware, 400w should comfortably handle any single GPU system. If you're looking at an SLI/Crossfire solution, then the enclosure is getting so big by grace of that hardware that there would be no point in going smaller than SFX anyways.

I think something say 150mm x 28mm x 25mm @ 400Wwould be perfect as you could put it next to an HD Plex and have a thin 80mm fan blowing down on both components all within the envelope of a present day Flex enclosure.