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Prototype DAN HSLP-48: A powerful sub 50mm heatsink

CubanLegend

Steely-Eyed NVFlash Man
Dec 23, 2016
834
1,011
smallformfactor.net
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Narwhal

Guest
Based on past history, I would keep my eyes on this page:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search/index/sSearch/Alpenfohn/sFilter_category/Air+Cooling

Ocuk is good at shipping to the US. Also, 'sup dude :)

Slightly off topic, but I wonder how this fan performs/sounds, and who the OEM is:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/alpenfohn-silvretta-cpu-cooler-92mm-hs-044-al.html
I have no idea about the fan but when I get my BR cooler if I think the fan is not good enough i'll swap it for a nh a9x14 spray painted in black
 

CubanLegend

Steely-Eyed NVFlash Man
Dec 23, 2016
834
1,011
smallformfactor.net
Just preordered it.. thanks @dondan and the people at Overclockers.uk, and the SFF community! it's been amazing to see this cooler go from an idea, a thread, a following, and then into a reality! :D I can't wait to hold it in my hands...

And best of all... it's all BLACK! :D I do hope the fan is better than the NHL9i's fan otherwise I'll be painting my A9x14 PWM black and putting it on this cooler! I really hope it fits in my S4M-C, and even if it doesn't i dont mind the purchase, @dondan deserves the support! :D I never liked your cases bro, sorry lol they're too big for me, but im glad i can support your cooler!! :)

I will be pitting it against my NHL9i, LP53 results. Here's hoping it beats them out!
 

Nanook

King of Cable Management
May 23, 2016
805
793
@dondan

Will there be a pure copper version of this anytime in the future?

Copper is a better conductor than aluminum, but aluminum lets go of heat more easily due to its lower density. So aluminium fins + copper heat pipes / heat blocks = more ideal than all copper.
 

rudy44

Average Stuffer
Aug 31, 2017
87
42
I'm currently using a regular Cryorig C7 which is similarly rated for 95w tdp. Would there be a significant enough improvement in performance with this? Or would it be more of a side grade but just looks a lot better (in my opinion).
 

D90

SFF Lingo Aficionado
May 9, 2017
107
74
Just preordered it.. thanks @dondan and the people at Overclockers.uk, and the SFF community! it's been amazing to see this cooler go from an idea, a thread, a following, and then into a reality! :D I can't wait to hold it in my hands...

And best of all... it's all BLACK! :D I do hope the fan is better than the NHL9i's fan otherwise I'll be painting my A9x14 PWM black and putting it on this cooler! I really hope it fits in my S4M-C, and even if it doesn't i dont mind the purchase, @dondan deserves the support! :D I never liked your cases bro, sorry lol they're too big for me, but im glad i can support your cooler!! :)

I will be pitting it against my NHL9i, LP53 results. Here's hoping it beats them out!
Please post your results all over the place when you do. I own both cases and haven’t built in either. I am leaning toward the S4M build first and would love to know if this cooler is viable (according to specs it’s 2mm larger then the max height cooler for S4M) but you never know!
 

Supercluster

Average Stuffer
Feb 24, 2016
87
127
Copper is a better conductor than aluminum, but aluminum lets go of heat more easily due to its lower density. So aluminium fins + copper heat pipes / heat blocks = more ideal than all copper.

This is not how thermal properties of materials work. It is a common misconception (and an urban myth) though.

When you say
Copper is a better conductor than aluminum, but aluminum lets go of heat more easily due to its lower density. /snip
, you are saying two contradicting things.

Rapidity of "letting go of heat" is thermal conductivity. In addition to that, association of any thermal property with density is erroneous, as it has nothing to do with it:

The density of diamond (for example) is little more than a third of the density of copper (3.51 vs 8.96 g/cm3), yet the thermal conductivity of natural diamond is about 2200 W/(m·K), which is approximately five times greater than copper. Isotopicallly pure diamond has the highest thermal conductivity of any known solid at room temperature at 3320 W/(m·K). Specific heat of natural diamond is 0.520 joule/gram K, which is closer to copper at 0.385 joule/gram K than aluminium at 0.870 joule/gram K, even though it's density is much closer to aluminium than to copper.

The speed of heat transfer is defined by thermal conductivity. This is, for example, why, when you walk over ceramic, glass, stone or metal, it feels colder than walking over cloth, wood, polymers, etc. Materials with higher thermal conductivity conduct heat from your body faster, which makes them feel colder at the exact same temperature than materials with a lower value.

With the basics of thermal conductivity out of the way, let us address and reintroduce the, often misunderstood, "elephant in the room", which is, of course, specific heat, otherwise known as thermal (or heat) capacity.

Specific heat is the amount of heat per unit mass required to raise the temperature by one degree Celsius. The temperature change is required to take effect without phase change, as heat released or gained during a phase change does not change the temperature.

The misconception is that because aluminium has a higher value than copper (0.870 vs 0.385 joule/gram K) it is better at releasing heat. This, of course is incorrect, as specific heat has no relation to the speed of heat transfer either way (gain or loss). Pure distilled, deionised, demineralised water has the highest specific heat value of the common substances at 4.186 joule/gram K . This is why water is the best liquid for any heat transfer applications where the operating conditions permit.
What this means is that a gram of water can hold the most heat before being saturated and thus elevates its temperature.


All of the above means that substances with higher specific heat value change temperature slower (with mass being equal), however, this is only because they can hold more heat per unit mass.

Fun fact: inhomogeneous systems that do not meet the strict definition of thermodynamic equilibrium, such as stars and galaxies have negative
specific heat values. This property can result in negative temperature.
 
Last edited:

Nanook

King of Cable Management
May 23, 2016
805
793
This is not how thermal properties of materials work. It is a common misconception (and an urban myth) though.

When you say , you are saying two contradicting things.

Rapidity of "letting go of heat" is thermal conductivity. In addition to that, association of any thermal property with density is erroneous, as it has nothing to do with it:

The density of diamond (for example) is little more than a third of the density of copper (3.51 vs 8.96 kg/m3), yet the thermal conductivity of natural diamond is about 2200 W/(m·K), which is approximately five times greater than copper. Isotopicallly pure diamond has the highest thermal conductivity of any known solid at room temperature at 3320 W/(m·K). Specific heat of natural diamond is 0.520 joule/gram K, which is closer to copper at 0.385 joule/gram K than aluminium at 0.870 joule/gram K, even though it's density is much closer to aluminium than to copper.

The speed of heat transfer is defined by thermal conductivity. This is, for example, why, when you walk over ceramic, glass, stone or metal, it feels colder than walking over cloth, wood, polymers, etc. Materials with higher thermal conductivity conduct heat from your body faster, which makes them feel colder at the exact same temperature than materials with a lower value.

With the basics of thermal conductivity out of the way, let us address and reintroduce the, often misunderstood, "elephant in the room", which is, of course, specific heat, otherwise known as thermal (or heat) capacity.

Specific heat is the amount of heat per unit mass required to raise the temperature by one degree Celsius. The temperature change is required to take effect without phase change, as heat released or gained during a phase change does not change the temperature.

The misconception is that because aluminium has a higher value than copper (0.870 vs 0.385 joule/gram K) it is better at releasing heat. This, of course is incorrect, as specific heat has no relation to the speed of heat transfer either way (gain or loss). Pure distilled, deionised, demineralised water has the highest specific heat value of the common substances at 4.186 joule/gram K . This is why water is the best liquid for any heat transfer applications where the operating conditions permit.
What this means is that a gram of water can hold the most heat before being saturated and thus elevates its temperature.

All of the above means that substances with higher specific heat value change temperature slower (with mass being equal), however, this is only because they can hold more heat per unit mass.

Fun fact: inhomogeneous systems that do not meet the strict definition of thermodynamic equilibrium, such as stars and galaxies have negative
specific heat values. This property can result in negative temperature.
I failed physics. Let along get the thermal dynamics, or semantics and definitions...
So copper is better for cpu heatsinks?
My C7 Cu still performs worse than my C7 Al somehow.
 
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chyll2

Master of Cramming
Jun 27, 2018
431
362
I failed physics. Let along get the thermal dynamics, or semantics and definitions...
So copper is better for cpu heatsinks?
My C7 Cu still performs worse than my C7 Al somehow.
With all the hype of a full copper block brings, the results was too underwhelming. Wall of text was ignored since theory and it's application are different. End results talk.

So yeah, c7 cu is not worth it (based on the reviews and user feedback)
 

Supercluster

Average Stuffer
Feb 24, 2016
87
127
I failed physics. Let along get the thermal dynamics, or semantics and definitions...
So copper is better for cpu heatsinks?
My C7 Cu still performs worse than my C7 Al somehow.
I have no reservations believing you. To my understanding Cryorig is a company with a decent idea and shoddy execution (read: Engineering and QC). I would appreciate if you posted a high resolution photograph with your coolers side by side so that the differences and potential imperfections can be observed.

Copper is better if you are constrained by volume only. If you count in raw material and production (remember, copper is harder to work with than aluminium) cost and, especially for SFF, weight, then combination as you said it in your previous comment is most practical, particularly as the cooler increases in size.

An example:
Heatsink with 10 100mm x 20mm x 0.5mm fins is 10ml (cm3) worth of material. Made of Al it weighs 27 grams, made of Cu it weighs 89 grams. Will it provide 3+ times better cooling? Of course not. Smart engineering/design is always adjusted for material properties.

Radiators with copper fins are common (not in the racing and other industries where every gram counts, Al rules there) because the Cu fins can be made much thinner than Al (HW Labs works with 25 micron fins), because, depending on the alloy and temper, it is a stronger material and behaves differently (Al alloys are strong but the conductivity drops drastically with impurity content, so my reference is very high Al alloys), so that the end result performs better and is not 3 times heavier.

An air cooler cannot be made with ultra thin copper fins because they would be destroyed with simple handling.

With all the hype of a full copper block brings, the results was too underwhelming. Wall of text was ignored since theory and it's application are different. End results talk.

So yeah, c7 cu is not worth it (based on the reviews and user feedback)

You, my friend, come off, to me at least, rude with your comment, but more importantly, incorrect.

From Wiktionary:
"Noun. wall of text (plural walls of text) (chiefly Internet slang) An intimidatingly large block of writing, particularly one with few or no paragraph breaks."
Accordingly, my comment is the exact opposite of a "wall of text", as it was meticulously formatted.

Furthermore, the latter part of your comment, in essence, says very little to nothing, however, with a clear bias against full copper cooling components, which you, without foundation, present as fact.
 

chyll2

Master of Cramming
Jun 27, 2018
431
362
Don't want to come off as rude. Didn't mean it that way.

I dont have a bias against full copper. I don't even care about the physics of it but right now if I have to spend money on low profile cooler. I will pick the aluminum c7 since the price jump is not worth it
 

dondan

Shrink Ray Wielder
Original poster
DAN Cases
Feb 23, 2015
1,981
8,392
So copper is better for cpu heatsinks?My C7 Cu still performs worse than my C7 Al somehow.

The reason for this is quality variation. If you buy 10 times C7 there will be some samples that are better then other. The reason for this is soldering quality and heatpipe performance variation. The variation for heatpipes is ~ 8% for each. So maybe you have a bad copper sample but a good aluminum sample.

I found out about this problem while testing heatsinks. This is also the reason why in some reviews the L9i is better and in other the C7 is better. You will have this on every heatsink. But to be fair the difference on copper vs. alu on heatsink is tiny. Depending on heatsink size also only ~8%. So in most cases you will only compensate quality variation on the heatsinks. So a copper version can work like a perfect manufactured aluminum version.

Conclusion: A review will be only good if they preselct 10 samples of every heatsink a test with the avarage value.




Btw here are some results of the Black Ridge made on an erlay sample I god month ago from EKL:

L9i @ 2400rpm = 63°C
Black Ridge (default 92mm fan) @ 2400rpm =61°C
Black Ridge + A12x15 (120mm fan under fin package) @1800rpm = 52°C
Black Ridge + A12x15 (120mm fan above fin package) @1800rpm = 50°C