DAN C4-SFX

[LSX]

Only the RTX 3080 FE and 280 AIO is missing.

I have a 3080 FE from the late dec drop from NBB. If you're interested for MSRP (719,00€) just lmk!

 

[Fitchew]

I made the decision to add them only on one side. It will be enough to hold the fans in place. On the other side they will hurt assembly experiance for other stuff.

This is odd. How is it possible? And which stuff?

 

[Aluminyum]

I made the decision to add them only on one side. It will be enough to hold the fans in place.

Wouldn't that be bad for the fan stability?

 

[Valantar]

Wouldn't that be bad for the fan stability?

It'll probably sag a few mm on the other side, and will no doubt vibrate more than if it were completely strapped down, but ... meh. Not likely to make much of a difference.

 

[Lomagista]

Have barely left any comment here but actually had me eye on this new case for a long time, it's great to see the design has come to the few final steps and would like to know if it will be on sale on OCUK just like

Update:

Carton work and production guide = done

Have barely left any comment here but actually had me eye on this new case for a long time, it's great to see the design has come to the final step and would like to know if it will be on sale on OCUK just like DAN A4 in UK?

 

[BRSxIgnition]

@BRSxIgnition I made the decision to add them only on one side. It will be enough to hold the fans in place. On the other side they will hurt assembly experiance for other stuff.

I understand removing the mounting point above the PSU screw so people can access that, but surely the below spots could still act as mounting points so there's something on the opposite side holding them up/stable?

I understand the hole left for the PSU screw (red triangle) but the spots marked in blue should be fine for fan mounting points, surely?

 

[itxmasterrace]

Does this support a 92mm radiator in the back? (Where it says 92mm fan supported)

hoping for a slim 280mm bottom + slim 92mm back radiator build

 

[AlexTSG]

The Iceman Cooler Reservoir is a popular option for custom loops in the Ncase M1, but won't fit onto the C4 (as far as I can see).

However, I was wondering if, with it's 140mm fan support, something like this could be used:

EK-Quantum Reflection Uni 140 D5 PWM D-RGB - Plexi - Pumps & Reservoirs - Quantum – EK Webshop (ekwb.com)

I'm sure once the case is available it won't take long for someone here to do a crazy water-cooled build, but I thought if anything could be tweaked at this stage of development to allow this, or something similar to fit properly it might help.

 

[Navic]

The Iceman Cooler Reservoir is a popular option for custom loops in the Ncase M1, but won't fit onto the C4 (as far as I can see).

However, I was wondering if, with it's 140mm fan support, something like this could be used:

EK-Quantum Reflection Uni 140 D5 PWM D-RGB - Plexi - Pumps & Reservoirs - Quantum – EK Webshop (ekwb.com)

I'm sure once the case is available it won't take long for someone here to do a crazy water-cooled build, but I thought if anything could be tweaked at this stage of development to allow this, or something similar to fit properly it might help.

The only place I can see that being able to be mounted would be the side, and in this case, I feel like most people are going to use two radiators, instead of one at the bottom. Doesn't really seem optimal to me, especially considering the price.

And I don't think we'll see any major changes to the case at this stage, like adding support for the iceman, especially with the option to mount the GPU vertically in the case, I imagine this complicates things a lot more.

 

[AlexTSG]

The only place I can see that being able to be mounted would be the side, and in this case, I feel like most people are going to use two radiators, instead of one at the bottom. Doesn't really seem optimal to me, especially considering the price.

And I don't think we'll see any major changes to the case at this stage, like adding support for the iceman, especially with the option to mount the GPU vertically in the case, I imagine this complicates things a lot more.

I completely agree that no other major changes should be made to the case at this stage. It feels like we're on the final stretch to being able to order a C4-SFX at last, and if we consider the start of all this being the "old" C4 this has been in development since September 2017 (I can't believe it's been that long).

This EK Reflection unit was just something that I came across that would fit in the C4 for those looking to do a full water-cooled system with a reservoir. It would need to be side mounted, and that would only leave options for a 280mm slim radiator mounted at the bottom, and a 140mm rad next to it (if that would fit).

My thoughts were more along the lines of a few extra holes being added to the front if it would allow the possibility of this being mounted there. It looked like it may be possible to squeeze this in at the front, above a bottom mounted rad, and in front of a card with a waterblock installed.

 

[Aluminyum]

It'll probably sag a few mm on the other side, and will no doubt vibrate more than if it were completely strapped down, but ... meh. Not likely to make much of a difference.

I just don't see much point in such a half-measure, to be frank.

 

[Valantar]

I just don't see much point in such a half-measure, to be frank.

... so you'd prefer no fan mounting at all, rather than a perfectly functional solution that sags by an unnoticeable amount? (It's clearly not meant to hang a radiator off of, after all.) That's a rather odd principle to make a point out of IMO. You don't have to use it if you don't want to after all, so you're entirely within your rights to just ignore it if you don't like it, yet those of us who don't mind can use it, as it's clearly fully functional.

 

[Aluminyum]

a perfectly functional solution that sags

Erm...

That's a rather odd principle to make a point out of IMO. You don't have to use it if you don't want to after all, so you're entirely within your rights to just ignore it if you don't like it, yet those of us who don't mind can use it, as it's clearly fully functional.

Don't get me wrong, I just think that it should be done properly. And @BRSxIgnition proposed what seems like a reasonable compromise.

 

[BRSxIgnition]

... so you'd prefer no fan mounting at all, rather than a perfectly functional solution that sags by an unnoticeable amount? (It's clearly not meant to hang a radiator off of, after all.) That's a rather odd principle to make a point out of IMO. You don't have to use it if you don't want to after all, so you're entirely within your rights to just ignore it if you don't like it, yet those of us who don't mind can use it, as it's clearly fully functional.

This is the first case I have ever seen personally that slaps mounting holes on one side of the case and just says yolo to the other half. Every single one of those mounting points could have another on the other side to mount things properly - just feels like corners were cut here.

Even the space left for that psu screw wouldn't be blocked if they left the gap above it when placing the fan mounting hole since it would be in a bit compared to the frame.

If you're going to say you can mount slim fans on the top of the case, you should be able to properly mount them, not hang then off a side.

 

[SiKiaTriK]

It seems that Dremel will still be my friend, but what fun would there be otherwise?

 

[SiKiaTriK]

--

 

[Valantar]

Erm...

Don't get me wrong, I just think that it should be done properly. And @BRSxIgnition proposed what seems like a reasonable compromise.

It might seem like that superficially, but when the designer of the case says it interferes with assembly for other components, I choose to actually believe them when they say that. This really doesn't seem like a case where unnecessary shortcuts are taken. You're welcome to disagree, but you'd need to back that up to convince me. I mean, for the top fan, there wouldn't be room for any more tabs (going by the pic in post #1386), as there's a cut-out (which undoubtedly has a purpose, likely for access to the PSU bracket) where the top tab would need to be and another for the bottom one, aligned with the PSU bracket below. So that's one fan that can't have mounting tabs on that side unless you want to compromise on more crucial components. For the second fan there don't seem to be immediate issues, but at that point you're then looking at one fan that might sag a mm or two and one that won't, and personally I'd prefer symmetry over strapping down one out of two fans. Given that this looks to be at the end of a piece of sheet metal it might be that adding tabs to it would complicate production or increase production costs (say, by reducing the number of panels you can get out of a certain width of sheet metal), which ... would that be worth it? Not to me at least. Mounting the fans on one side is perfectly fine as long as the mounting tabs are made from sufficiently thick and rigid metal, and sag will likely be there, but not something you'll actually notice when not looking for it. Sounds like a worthwhile compromise to me.

This is the first case I have ever seen personally that slaps mounting holes on one side of the case and just says yolo to the other half. Every since one of those mounting points could have another on the other side to mount things properly - just feels like corners were cut here.

Even the space left for that psu screw wouldn't be blocked if they left the gap above it when placing the fan mounting hole since it would be in a bit compared to the frame.

If you're going to say you can mount slim fans on the top of the case, you should be able to properly mount them, not hang then off a side.

I mean, there are always compromises in a design. This seems like a perfectly reasonable one. It's not common to see this on a mass produced case, but then mass produced cases don't tend to be this intensely space optimized. This looks less like cutting corners and more like squeezing in another optional feature because it could be done, in which case functional but not perfect is certainly superior to nothing at all. I mean, you're welcome to disagree with that, but what's the point of taking a principled stance on something with zero impact on function? Unless your fan has a very weak frame or you treat the PC very roughly, this will work perfectly fine.

As for whether tabs could have been implemented without fouling clearances ... it might be possible but if it makes mounting your PSU a nightmare as you have to navigate a screw and screwdriver through a tight hole (likely while holding the PSU in place with one hand), that's making building in this a lot more complicated. To me, choosing ease of installation with an optional, functional but imperfect feature beats out complicated, fiddly installation with a still optional but perfectly implemented feature.

 

[BRSxIgnition]

It might seem like that superficially, but when the designer of the case says it interferes with assembly for other components, I choose to actually believe them when they say that. This really doesn't seem like a case where unnecessary shortcuts are taken. You're welcome to disagree, but you'd need to back that up to convince me. I mean, for the top fan, there wouldn't be room for any more tabs (going by the pic in post #1386), as there's a cut-out (which undoubtedly has a purpose, likely for access to the PSU bracket) where the top tab would need to be and another for the bottom one, aligned with the PSU bracket below. So that's one fan that can't have mounting tabs on that side unless you want to compromise on more crucial components. For the second fan there don't seem to be immediate issues, but at that point you're then looking at one fan that might sag a mm or two and one that won't, and personally I'd prefer symmetry over strapping down one out of two fans. Given that this looks to be at the end of a piece of sheet metal it might be that adding tabs to it would complicate production or increase production costs (say, by reducing the number of panels you can get out of a certain width of sheet metal), which ... would that be worth it? Not to me at least. Mounting the fans on one side is perfectly fine as long as the mounting tabs are made from sufficiently thick and rigid metal, and sag will likely be there, but not something you'll actually notice when not looking for it. Sounds like a worthwhile compromise to me.

Thing is, conceptually, the only place I wouldn't see the possibility of adding a mounting hole would be the front left corner, and only because there's no width to add a protrusion without interfering with the peg mechanism or alignment with the PSU screw.

Elsewhere, the mounting holes would be far enough in towards the center of the case that a simple loop or additional protrusion could be used to sidestep the PSU screw issue. (Shown in green below, leaving space for the PSU screw to be accessible, in blue.) If there's something else we're not seeing in this image that's stopping it, then by all means, I'd invite being proven wrong, if only so we can all understand things better.

If the issue ends up being something regarding sheet metal or exorbitant price increases to add any additional mounting holes on the opposite side, then I'd throw out the suggestion of either adding pegs/points to the lid of the case for slim 120mm fans (a la NR200/P, below) instead or abandoning the idea altogether to simplify things.

As for whether tabs could have been implemented without fouling clearances ... it might be possible but if it makes mounting your PSU a nightmare as you have to navigate a screw and screwdriver through a tight hole (likely while holding the PSU in place with one hand), that's making building in this a lot more complicated. To me, choosing ease of installation with an optional, functional but imperfect feature beats out complicated, fiddly installation with a still optional but perfectly implemented feature.

With all due respect.... this made me chuckle. I've seen people push further against much worse design flaws than that in pursuit of completing a build.

If one cannot turn a screw with a screwdriver placed where the blue triangle is above while holding the PSU with their other hand (wouldn't even be needed if they laid the case on its side during installation) then maybe they shouldn't be building in a SFF case, and something larger or more mainstream would be the better option for them?

 

[Valantar]

Thing is, conceptually, the only place I wouldn't see the possibility of adding a mounting hole would be the front left corner, and only because there's no width to add a protrusion without interfering with the peg mechanism or alignment with the PSU screw.

Elsewhere, the mounting holes would be far enough in towards the center of the case that a simple loop or additional protrusion could be used to sidestep the PSU screw issue. (Shown in green below, leaving space for the PSU screw to be accessible, in blue.) If there's something else we're not seeing in this image that's stopping it, then by all means, I'd invite being proven wrong, if only so we can all understand things better.

If the issue ends up being something regarding sheet metal or exorbitant price increases to add any additional mounting holes on the opposite side, then I'd throw out the suggestion of either adding pegs/points to the lid of the case for slim 120mm fans (a la NR200/P, below) instead or abandoning the idea altogether to simplify things.

With all due respect.... this made me chuckle. I've seen people push further against much worse design flaws than that in pursuit of completing a build.

If one cannot turn a screw with a screwdriver placed where the blue triangle is above while holding the PSU with their other hand (wouldn't even be needed if they laid the case on its side during installation) then maybe they shouldn't be building in a SFF case, and something larger or more mainstream would be the better option for them?

I'm not talking about turning the screwdriver, I'm talking about getting it in there in the first place. Not everyone has good quality magnetic screwdrivers (and not all screws have enough ferrous material to stick well to a driver), and designing around that expectation is a poor choice as it integrates a distinct possibility of having a bad experience into the design. Holding a relatively heavy PSU in place with one hand while threading a screw driver with a screw hanging off its tip through a hole barely big enough to fit everything and then inserting the tip of the screw into a small hole without bumping anything is ... well, less than optimal. Anyone who has needed to do something like this (it's a common enough experience on PCIe slot screws in PC cases) knows how easy it is to ever-so-slightly brush the screw or driver against something, causing the screw to fall into the PC and making you restart the process (and spend time fishing a small screw out from some tiny nook it inevitably gets stuck in. IMO this is a bigger issue than the possibility of fans sagging by a couple of mm on one side. If the sag bothers you, some kind of entirely invisible bodge fix can be made, but there's nothing you can do to avoid the issue of installing the PSU beyond investing in better tools (and possibly your own PSU mounting screws), which ... well, one could argue that $30 for a good quality screw driver is worth it, and I wouldn't disagree there, but not everyone would see it that way.

As for pegs: especially with slim fans, those are less than optimal due to the range of thicknesses (at least 12-16mm would need to be accommodated) and how difficult that would be to make work. It would also ruin the clean aesthetic of the top panel, which I think far more people would mind than fans sagging (invisibly) by a few mm on one side. At that point velcroing the fans to the top cover would be better.

And as for abandoning the idea: again, why? Why do several people here keep arguing that it's better to not have an option at all than an imperfect one? Am I completely crazy for thinking that that is just ... stupid? I mean, come on! You don't have to use it if you don't like it, rendering the removal entirely meaningless, so how can you justify arguing for the outright removal of the option for people who would want top fans and don't mind fastening them on one side? As I've said several times above: this is an incredibly weird subject on which to make a principled stance. If "symmetrically attached fans or no fans at all" is an important principle for you ... why? What's it to you if other people want the option for an imperfect fan mount? As long as the option doesn't hurt anything else (which we know it doesn't, as that's the entire reason for the asymmetrical mount), why argue for removing it? That just makes no sense.

I mean, I get wanting the fan mount to be symmetrical, but is this really a debate worth having? The design is finished. The mount is what it is - functional, but imperfect. There are always compromises in any design, and SFF cases are the perfect example of this. Nothing has everything perfect.

 

[BRSxIgnition]

I'm not talking about turning the screwdriver, I'm talking about getting it in there in the first place. Not everyone has good quality magnetic screwdrivers (and not all screws have enough ferrous material to stick well to a driver), and designing around that expectation is a poor choice as it integrates a distinct possibility of having a bad experience into the design. Holding a relatively heavy PSU in place with one hand while threading a screw driver with a screw hanging off its tip through a hole barely big enough to fit everything and then inserting the tip of the screw into a small hole without bumping anything is ... well, less than optimal. Anyone who has needed to do something like this (it's a common enough experience on PCIe slot screws in PC cases) knows how easy it is to ever-so-slightly brush the screw or driver against something, causing the screw to fall into the PC and making you restart the process (and spend time fishing a small screw out from some tiny nook it inevitably gets stuck in. IMO this is a bigger issue than the possibility of fans sagging by a couple of mm on one side. If the sag bothers you, some kind of entirely invisible bodge fix can be made, but there's nothing you can do to avoid the issue of installing the PSU beyond investing in better tools (and possibly your own PSU mounting screws), which ... well, one could argue that $30 for a good quality screw driver is worth it, and I wouldn't disagree there, but not everyone would see it that way.

I was talking about the process as a whole, both placing the screwdriver there and screwing it in. When placing the screw you can thread it in a mm so it stays there, then continue once you have the PSU lined up. SFX PSUs especially are nowhere near as heavy as you're trying to make them seem, so holding it up to line it up with the hole using one hand should in no circumstances be a problem to anyone who is able to build a PC.

I understand wanting the experience to be as easy as possible, and I agree that the less barriers to entry in PC building the better, but this entire first paragraph is just taking issues that can and do happen with any PC build and blowing them out of proportion.

As for pegs: especially with slim fans, those are less than optimal due to the range of thicknesses (at least 12-16mm would need to be accommodated) and how difficult that would be to make work. It would also ruin the clean aesthetic of the top panel, which I think far more people would mind than fans sagging (invisibly) by a few mm on one side. At that point velcroing the fans to the top cover would be better.

Yes, I realize this - which is why I said I threw the suggestion out there as something that just came to mind. I know it'd mar the otherwise perfect uniform hole punch pattern on the top, but it came to mind so I thought I'd mention it as an alternative to mounting holes on the frame.

And as for abandoning the idea: again, why? Why do several people here keep arguing that it's better to not have an option at all than an imperfect one? Am I completely crazy for thinking that that is just ... stupid? I mean, come on! You don't have to use it if you don't like it, rendering the removal entirely meaningless, so how can you justify arguing for the outright removal of the option for people who would want top fans and don't mind fastening them on one side? As I've said several times above: this is an incredibly weird subject on which to make a principled stance. If "symmetrically attached fans or no fans at all" is an important principle for you ... why? What's it to you if other people want the option for an imperfect fan mount? As long as the option doesn't hurt anything else (which we know it doesn't, as that's the entire reason for the asymmetrical mount), why argue for removing it? That just makes no sense.

It's less about not having the option at all vs an imperfect one, it's about avoiding issues that an imperfect solution can cause. Vibration noise & case rattle are real issues that unevenly-mounted fans could cause, and at that point, the implementation of these mounting holes may not be worth the tradeoff in sound/vibration noise.

Sure, you can still make the argument that some people may still prefer cooler temperatures, despite these issues, so fine, in that case, keep things as they are, but it doesn't change the fact that in a case that, otherwise, seems as high quality as the C4-SFX, it'd be a odd, glaring decision to have fans mounted this way.

I mean, I get wanting the fan mount to be symmetrical, but is this really a debate worth having? The design is finished. The mount is what it is - functional, but imperfect. There are always compromises in any design, and SFF cases are the perfect example of this. Nothing has everything perfect.

In the beginning, I just felt I'd point it out considering the case had pretty much everything else going for it except this.

But you're right, at this point it's not a debate worth having, so I'll relent - it is what it is.