While liquid cooling is of course less noisy without load, there is no way air cooling can compete with liquid cooling under full load - especially not in a case where the biggest possible air cooler is a D12L.
DAN C4-SFX
- Thread starter dondan
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Yes, 2 actual 280mm rads are possible. I think there is a thickness restriction, so you won't be able to fit 25mm fans + a thick radiator - don't know the numbers from the top of my head though
Looking at the manual -
Fan / Lüfter - 2 x 120/140mm side and top
This would suggest that you can fit 280 rad on side and top, so by that I think you are correct in that you could go a 280 rad in the top spot as long as you were single slot for the gpu.
This is the build I am looking to go for - 280 on top for gpu and on the side for cpu. Using an integrated pump-reservoir-water block combo.
Hopefully a nice neat package!
no offence, but thats simply not true - modern pumps are (when properly placed/configured) unhearable.
my intended use was and is a silent setup with as much power as possible. therefore i went for the dual-rad setup with the 13900K and 4090 running stock.
atm its just built on the table, but in idle the system just makes no noise - you can adjust pump speed also in fan profiles - although it stands directly besides me on the table i can barely hear anything in idle (idle means to me surfing the web, listening to music, watching youtube, streaming movies, coding, ...)
under "medium" load (playing diablo iv beta - maxed out settings at 5120x1440) i could occasionally hear the fans ramp up a bit.
under "heavy" load (Cinebench R23 AND 3DMark TimeSpy Extreme parallel in loop) you can definetly hear the system - but its still quieter than my Titan RTX with its stock fans under load.
edit: @TheClash: i've linked the progress of my build in the signature - think that's what you're also going for :-)
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Under full load for what? A Ryzen 7000 CPU with ~120w TPP should be reliably easier to cool quietly at full load with a D12L than with liquid since the liquid cooling setup would be total overkill for the wattage and would require a higher minimum fan speed to push an acceptable amount of air through a radiator. Essentially at this wattage you could run your D12L fans at 600 RPM, but you'd need to run your rad fans at 1000 RPM.
At 170w TPP or higher liquid cooling likely starts to pull away a tiny bit since you'd be getting better cooling performance with 1000+ RPM on the rad than 1000+ RPM on the D12L. The higher the fan RPM goes the more of a non-issue the pump noise is too.
Then at 250w+ TPP liquid cooling should definitely be quieter as long you don't have a loud af asetek pump. I 1000% agree that your 13900k at load would be a heck of a lot quieter with a properly configured liquid cooling setup than with a D12L.
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Is it reasonable to cool a 13900K with a contact frame + high quality thermal paste + D12L + 165W PL2 + -100mV?
It would not lead to more than a 10% performance decrease according to this:
I mostly care about noise/noise profile.
I actually bought an arctic 280 but it turns out it's not compatible with my motherboard.
I prefer the D12L because of simplicity, no pump/air bubble noise, noise profile and aesthetics. But it's probably a less powerful cooler (even when adjusting for noise) at load, and probably has much less thermal mass. My workload is quite bursty.
What are your thoughts? Any suggested alternatives?
It would not lead to more than a 10% performance decrease according to this:
I mostly care about noise/noise profile.
I actually bought an arctic 280 but it turns out it's not compatible with my motherboard.
I prefer the D12L because of simplicity, no pump/air bubble noise, noise profile and aesthetics. But it's probably a less powerful cooler (even when adjusting for noise) at load, and probably has much less thermal mass. My workload is quite bursty.
What are your thoughts? Any suggested alternatives?
Under full Load of current generation high-end consumer hardware (e.g. RTX4090 + 150W CPU)
Also, in your post you are only talking about CPU - who in his right mind would run a dual rad liquid setup to only cool a CPU
If you're ok losing 10% performance on the 13900k to limit heat output wouldn't a 13700k or better a 7950x in 105W eco mode make more sense?
Unsure what bursty workloads you mean. The 13900k only takes ~80w when gaming which is no issue to cool quietly. For multicore workstation loads in sff though 7950x would be a better choice.
Excellent build - I'm drooling over it.
Do you really expect those radiators to both fit in the C4-sfx? Can't tell what they both are, but the one in the last picture (linked in your profile) looks pretty thick. As does the pump/block. How do you plan on putting them in? And will you share your build once the case arrives? I want to see how it all goes together.
Thank you for the suggestions. Bursty workload = 100% CPU utilization for 1-120 seconds, average probably 5 seconds.
From my understanding, the 13700K is significantly less efficient for highly threaded applications for any given power limit as it will have to clock higher to reach the same level of performance. I haven't considered the 7950x because I use Intel MKL. Having said this, difference in efficiency is surprisingly small: https://www.club386.com/intel-core-i9-13900k-vs-amd-ryzen-9-7950x-at-125w-and-65w/
Wild. It looks like the 7950X performs significantly better at 125W. The reviewers 125w numbers for the 7950X are almost identical to what I'm getting from my air cooled 7950X in 105W eco mode.
The 7950X also appears better at 170w (7950X's stock TDP) although the reviewer doesn't actually test the 13900k at 170w for some reason. Then it's more of a tossup than expected at 65w?
Good rationale to avoid the 13700k though if a 13900k power limited to 13700k levels will offer significantly better performance.
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That's fair, and I agree, the 7950x is better at 125w and most likely at 170w too. I think <65W efficiency for the 7950x can be explained by the chiplet design and I/O die consumes a relatively constant amount of power.
I am looking to try and use these as they are quite slim: https://www.alphacool.com/shop/radi...l-nexxxos-st20-hpe-full-copper-280mm-radiatorExcellent build - I'm drooling over it.
Do you really expect those radiators to both fit in the C4-sfx? Can't tell what they both are, but the one in the last picture (linked in your profile) looks pretty thick. As does the pump/block. How do you plan on putting them in? And will you share your build once the case arrives? I want to see how it all goes together.
Paired with some slim fans as well like this: https://www.arctic.de/en/P14-Slim-PWM-PST/ACFAN00268A
I am most def using @m4nii as inspiration!
I'm not quite sure how/if it all will fit in the case as i'm building it right now. I definitely need to change the tubing (i even consider hard tubing for the top rad), also for the cpu block i need to use the side in- and outlet ports, and need to use 90° adapters for the side-rad as well.
Currently i'm waiting for the Direct-Die Kit from EKWB for the 13900K which - i hope - will have great impact on temps as well.
As for the size of the rads i calculated with the case measurements Dan provided, but it might just be a tick to tight at the top. Currently i have the NexXxos HPE-30 at top and the HPE-45 on the side, with Noctua Chromax A14-PWM (25mm). As the mainboard provides an external temperature input port i also want to add a coolant temperature sensor, but i'm not quite sure where to put it in the loop. (i'd be most interested in two sensors - one right before the gpu and one right after the cpu, but the mobo only supports one...).
I can't wait to get my hands on the case to start the final assembly
Currently i'm waiting for the Direct-Die Kit from EKWB for the 13900K which - i hope - will have great impact on temps as well.
As for the size of the rads i calculated with the case measurements Dan provided, but it might just be a tick to tight at the top. Currently i have the NexXxos HPE-30 at top and the HPE-45 on the side, with Noctua Chromax A14-PWM (25mm). As the mainboard provides an external temperature input port i also want to add a coolant temperature sensor, but i'm not quite sure where to put it in the loop. (i'd be most interested in two sensors - one right before the gpu and one right after the cpu, but the mobo only supports one...).
I can't wait to get my hands on the case to start the final assembly
I shudder at the thought of going direct die... but the videos I have seen do seem to have a 20deg reduction in temps!
While I think I will go 13th Gen for this build, it was interesting to see Linus Tech Tips review the 7950X3D recently. While the performance is not record breaking (but to quote the video it was "13900K ish") it was sipping power at what looks to be like 50W (package power) under 4k gaming compared to over 80W for the 13900K.
I'm considering an all AMD build this go around: 7800X3D, 7900XTX -- but will wait to see how exactly the 7800X3D performs and the price/availability locally before deciding. Haven't gone direct die since, well, before heat spreaders became a thing, but I will for this build.
Really looking forward to the case. And to seeing @m4nii 's build come together.
Really looking forward to the case. And to seeing @m4nii 's build come together.
All review samples are shipped:
Linus Tech Tips
Computerbase
Optimum Tech
Hardwarecanucks
Linus Tech Tips
Computerbase
Optimum Tech
Hardwarecanucks
