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DAN C4-SFX - old
- Thread starter dondan
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I may add, a better solution for a 240+240mm radiator configuration with only 2 fans would be having space for those two fan in the upper/lower region of the case. No gaps everywhere else. In this way, one radiator would work in the best condition. The others will work good too, as air won't have to make a 90° path to go away. Something like @aquelito 's last design but rotated. He proved it worked good.
Hi guys,
I like to share with you my newest idea on how it is possible to improve the internal design of the C4-SFX. This design will be between 11 & 11,3L and will allow for using up to 480mm radiator surface inside the C4. (Keep in mind it is just an idea):
How it works:
The layout will be work around positive or negative pressure. There will be three vent openings for this design – top side, bottom side and front side. Every vent area has a surface of 120x240mm there will be no venting holes on the side panels.
There is one rule for building inside the case: ALL fans (including the GPU) have to blow in the same direction.
On this picture you see positive pressure. The two front fans pushing fresh air inside the case and it will move out through the radiators on top and bottom. On a use case with a radial fan GPU (GTX Founders) negative pressure would be better and for a axial fan GPU (RTX Founders) positive pressure. ( I know I did it wrong on the renderings)
If you like to use only one radiator you can also put fans on the mount points for the second radiator or install one or two of the included bracket (don’t visible on the rendering) to covering the not needed vent areas. Every bracket is able to cover a 120x120mm surface. Furthermore each bracket will also work as an drive bay and can hold two 2.5” drives.
A little example: You like to use only one 240mm radiator. You install it in the bottom of the case. Now is it up to you: You can install the fans at the front or topside. You decide for the front. Now you have unused space at the topside. You install a third 120mm fan at the topside and one vent holes cover to have more space for two HDD drives.
This design is very unique because it will allow up to 480mm radiator surface in ~11L volume. In a direct comparison a radiator will cool better if the fan is directly attached on it, but also this design will work very well.
For designing the front intake I have different ideas:
Between front panel and fan there will be 15mm free space to not have air turbulences and to provide space for dust filters. So now we have two options: 1) adding vent holes to the front panel itself or adding vent slots on the left and right side of the 15mm free space zone (I will visualize it).
What do you think about this design?
Very interesting design. Do you think thermals will be sufficient for non-blower GPUs?
You are correct in that there will be too many variables in terms of components and assembly. All it takes is for one person to forget (or simply has lost / broke) his I/O shield to prevent a large enough delta in air pressure. However, technically this should workI don't know if this idea was already proposed by you or by others in this forums, but my doubts remains. Air, as electrons, likes to take the less resistive path... So you're idea may work if we suppose there are no gaps at all in the enclosure. Even at I/O region where it's likely we have gaps. If there are, this design is doomed to "fail" because it's less efficient than having fans directly in contact with radiators (e.g. no static pressure "wasted")...
Furthermore, even if we suppose no drops in performace between a direct contact fan + radiator... We have to take in considerations that, in a 480mm configurations, we have just 2 fan... rotated and "not close" from radiators... So, static pressure is halved. Not an efficient design IMHO, as we will have probably a gradient in static pressure and airflow (portions near fans will perform better than portions of radiators near the I/O shield in negative pressure configuration)...
So, I doubt this design will work and it may be more expensive because tolerances has to be lowered (higher quality manufacturing) to be sure we don't have excessive gaps in the enclosure...
A COMSOL/ANSYS simulation(s) would be awesome
I think small gabs are not a big problem, but you are right a missing i/o shield is a problem.
Its hard to say without a prototype what sort of performance this would retain/gain.
The primary question I have is who actually wants 2 x 240mm radiators and why? One for the CPU and one for the GPU? Custom loop with them both in line? Can you fit a custom loop, reservoir, and pump in this space?
I think the general consensus was that water-cooling the GPU with an AIO was not something most people are interested in. The current configuration would not support 120mm hybrid GPUs or 120mm rads of any kind. So the only option is custom loop? Is it really your intention to make this case so niche? The new configuration would mean that people who only wanted to water-cool the CPU and not the GPU would have inferior airflow over the radiator as compared to fans placed directly on the rad.
Are there enough people who want more than 240mm of rad that this is a worthwhile path? I just seems like a solution to a problem that no one is complaining about, while also requiring too many factors to be perfect.
It seems to me that the problem I actually hear people talking about isn't radiator size, its slot width.
Edit: That being said, If the C4-SFX is trying to be a more holistic water-cooling solution (with either specifically designed or a list of fully supported blocks, pumps, and reservoirs), it would be very interesting of course assuming that this would actually result is superior thermal performance. I have also always been interested in modular AIO designs.
The primary question I have is who actually wants 2 x 240mm radiators and why? One for the CPU and one for the GPU? Custom loop with them both in line? Can you fit a custom loop, reservoir, and pump in this space?
I think the general consensus was that water-cooling the GPU with an AIO was not something most people are interested in. The current configuration would not support 120mm hybrid GPUs or 120mm rads of any kind. So the only option is custom loop? Is it really your intention to make this case so niche? The new configuration would mean that people who only wanted to water-cool the CPU and not the GPU would have inferior airflow over the radiator as compared to fans placed directly on the rad.
Are there enough people who want more than 240mm of rad that this is a worthwhile path? I just seems like a solution to a problem that no one is complaining about, while also requiring too many factors to be perfect.
It seems to me that the problem I actually hear people talking about isn't radiator size, its slot width.
Edit: That being said, If the C4-SFX is trying to be a more holistic water-cooling solution (with either specifically designed or a list of fully supported blocks, pumps, and reservoirs), it would be very interesting of course assuming that this would actually result is superior thermal performance. I have also always been interested in modular AIO designs.
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@Rankless
I never said 120mm single radiators are not supported, they will work too. But yes you are right this case is more optimized for building custom loops.
I never said 120mm single radiators are not supported, they will work too. But yes you are right this case is more optimized for building custom loops.
I am interested to see where this concept goes, especially knowing that you and Wahaha have been working on purpose built water-cooling gear.
If it proves too difficult to cool 480mm of radiator with just the front fans, would you consider a taller, shorter length case that has two adjacent fan mounter per radiator?
If it proves too difficult to cool 480mm of radiator with just the front fans, would you consider a taller, shorter length case that has two adjacent fan mounter per radiator?
This would result in an case with an height of > 300mm and a volume >12l i don't think i will go this route. Depending on the feetback of this new design i will decide if i will stay on the current design or move to the new one.
Btw:
Gigabyte Aorus RTX 2080
Inno3D RTX 2080 Ti
Btw:
Gigabyte Aorus RTX 2080
Inno3D RTX 2080 Ti
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I’m trying to think of ways to configure the external casing to minimize seams. Maybe a tunnel configuration, or left / right clamshellThis would result in an case with an height of > 300mm and a volume >12l i don't think i will go this route. Depending on the feetback of this new design i will decide if i will stay on the current design or move to the new one.
Btw:
Gigabyte Aorus RTX 2080
Inno3D RTX 2080 Ti
Hey @dondan maybe you could try something like this (images below). You get 360mm of radiator surface with direct fan pressure, and keeps the case somewhere in that 11 liter range. Not factoring in case thickness and extra frame structure, this design in the way I set it up is about 11 liters, has about 65mm of room above the CPU, and also leaves a nice large area open next to the 120mm radiator for HDD mounting. This would allow custom loops with 360mm of radiator surface, or a 240 AIO on the CPU and a hybrid GPU, or other combinations. I had to go with the 120mm radiator on the side or else the other half of a 240 was right up on the power supply and would have restricted air flow. I'm definitely not experienced in case design so I figured I'd toss this idea out there for you and maybe you could figure out if it would work.
I like this dual radiator direction. A DIY case that embodies the Corsair One philosophy is very attractive. (it seems water cooled graphics will only grow in importance given the trend for modern games, at high resolutions, to be more GPU-bound)
Two questions:
1. Is 30mm enough to fit the majority of out-of-the-box GPU radiators (like the two above)?
2. The front fans are blowing in, yes? I fear this would favor the top radiator. Why not blow out? That's what the Corsair does.
Two questions:
1. Is 30mm enough to fit the majority of out-of-the-box GPU radiators (like the two above)?
2. The front fans are blowing in, yes? I fear this would favor the top radiator. Why not blow out? That's what the Corsair does.
@Bonusround
1) Maybe currently i dont have dimensions of it. From the pictures it looks like iChill = 30mm and Aorus = 27mm.
2) This is up to you. Please read my text under the rendering again.
@omega24
This is too similar to the M1.
1) Maybe currently i dont have dimensions of it. From the pictures it looks like iChill = 30mm and Aorus = 27mm.
2) This is up to you. Please read my text under the rendering again.
@omega24
This is too similar to the M1.
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Hi guys,
I like to share with you my newest idea on how it is possible to improve the internal design of the C4-SFX. This design will be between 11 & 11,3L and will allow for using up to 480mm radiator surface inside the C4. (Keep in mind it is just an idea):
How it works:
The layout will be work around positive or negative pressure. There will be three vent openings for this design – top side, bottom side and front side. Every vent area has a surface of 120x240mm there will be no venting holes on the side panels.
There is one rule for building inside the case: ALL fans (including the GPU) have to blow in the same direction.
On this picture you see positive pressure. The two front fans pushing fresh air inside the case and it will move out through the radiators on top and bottom. On a use case with a radial fan GPU (GTX Founders) negative pressure would be better and for a axial fan GPU (RTX Founders) positive pressure. ( I know I did it wrong on the renderings)
If you like to use only one radiator you can also put fans on the mount points for the second radiator or install one or two of the included bracket (don’t visible on the rendering) to covering the not needed vent areas. Every bracket is able to cover a 120x120mm surface. Furthermore each bracket will also work as an drive bay and can hold two 2.5” drives.
A little example: You like to use only one 240mm radiator. You install it in the bottom of the case. Now is it up to you: You can install the fans at the front or topside. You decide for the front. Now you have unused space at the topside. You install a third 120mm fan at the topside and one vent holes cover to have more space for two HDD drives.
This design is very unique because it will allow up to 480mm radiator surface in ~11L volume. In a direct comparison a radiator will cool better if the fan is directly attached on it, but also this design will work very well.
For designing the front intake I have different ideas:
Between front panel and fan there will be 15mm free space to not have air turbulences and to provide space for dust filters. So now we have two options: 1) adding vent holes to the front panel itself or adding vent slots on the left and right side of the 15mm free space zone (I will visualize it).
What do you think about this design?
Currently I have two concerns with this layout
1) Error-prone: If a customer did not read the manual proper this customer can make mistakes in the build. Like Nanook mentioned forget install I/O shield, don't close unused vent holes with the included covering-bracket or run the system without side panel attached.
2) Unused features: Maybe this layout provides more features than needed. If the biggest percentage of my customers use only one 240mm radiator (AIO) for cooling the CPU the extra space is useless. Furthermore for these customers a design with fans directly attached to the radiator will be better.
I think this design is currently the best if it comes to space usage and cooling possibilities. Think about it 11.3L and 480mm radiator surface.
Interesting concept! But as you mentioned the percentage of people using 2 240mm rads might be quite small. So what about: keeping the 2 fans in the front and support only one 240 rad with attached fans. So people can have a 240mm cpu aio + 2 fans delivering air to a gpu, or the other way around!
I really like it, it will definitely cover my needs and even gives me more ideas. Well done
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