DAN C4-SFX - old

[chairmanmeow]

While you discuss the topic I had the important "AHA moment" yesterday I am waiting for the last weeks. So I found a solution for the classical C4-SFX design to solve the attaching problem with slide in mechanism without adding many millimeters to the case.

Thanks for your hard work @dondan. You're the man.

 

[Matsu]

I vote for the first and original design/render.

And i really hope to see this case for sale next year as am planing to build myself a new ITX build to replace my current Lian Li PC-Q37 case

<3 !

Personally i dont mind if the case will be a bit wider to find a solution for the side panel mountings, maybe it will look even better.

 

[IronLegacy45]

for this survey, please make sure to explain how and if space heights would change for the two configurations (e.g, with a sandwitch layout, how tall would be the biggest CPU heatsing supported, how many slot for a GPU). To me, giving the nature of this case, an air heatsink for CPU is totally unnecessary so that space could be the smallest possible to fit a reasonable number of RAM sticks

i think by sandwich design, @dondan meant the old a4/ghost s1 design where the gpu is separated from the other components. I don't think that the gpu height/width restrictions will change much but i will lean towards the sandwich design more because thermals might possibly be a bit better than the original c4 design since the gpu is in a separate compartment. But then those who were going to use taller cpu air coolers will suffer due to this. But since i will be watercooling my cpu, it won't be affecting me much. This is my humble opinion only and i will definitely take the sandwich design over the hard riser design. Also, a minor suggestion to @dondan. I would love to see the tempered glass on the case untinted so as to not hinder the visual aspect of the case

 

[SashaLag]

i think by sandwich design, @dondan meant the old a4/ghost s1 design where the gpu is separated from the other components.

yep I understood that! I asked because with the hard riser we were given support to 2 and 2,5 slot GPUs. This, obviously, by decreasing the distance with the CPU. WIth the old A4/Ghost design, this is not an option and I suppose, space available for CPU & GPU is fixed. Hence my question and the suggestion/request to have a bigger compartment for GPU (at least 2,5 slot) as probably everybody who will buy this case will use an AIO for his/her CPU (optmistic, as I suppose we are all men here )

 

[omega24]

Wouldn’t moving to the old sandwich design restrict airflow to the radiator more than the current design? The way it’s set up now, the radiator basically has it’s whole face open and can suck air directly from the top down, or bottom up. If you have the sandwich design, there’s now a part of the frame that runs across the middle of the radiator. Not sure how much that would affect performance.

 

[sverebom]

I'm glad that we are back to the initial C4 layout and design again. It is a beautiful design, and I got the impression that the design is mostly complete by now and waiting for finalization to go into funding and eventually production in H1 2018. I'm planning and building my new PC to fit into the C4 when it finally arrives and I would have been bummed out if the original C4 had been further delayed or even replaced

So I found a solution for the classical C4-SFX design to solve the attaching problem with slide in mechanism without adding many millimeters to the case.

That's interesting. Several weeks ago I wanted to ask you if a classic sliding mechanic could be an option to solve the problem, but then family matters got into the way and I forgot about the C4 and my new PC for a while. Is there also a chance to integrate the window into a sliding aluminium panel? While I will very likely prefer the perforated side panel anyway, it might be interesting to have window option without "nubby" thumb screws.

Also, where are the drive mounts? Behind the front panel? Brackets underneath the PSU?

As bilibili1 just pointed out, there are other similar designs to the C4 that may result in more competition which the A4-SFX didn't really have until more recently.

Those alternatives aren't widely and easily available, especially not in Europe. Not to mention that many people don't like to order "around three corners" and from other continents. The C4 however might be available through Caseking, a renowned only shop for PC cases and components that delivers to entire EU (other leading online retailers have the A4 too).

The only real and readily available competition over here is the Raijintek Ophion (Evo), and that's a serious competition despite the design flaws. But the Ophion doesn't have support for three slot video-cards, it doesn't have the quality, it is not space efficient, and it doesn't have vented side panels. Plus, there are more "skyscrapers" than there are Ophions. The C4 will do as fine as one can expect from a prices small production "craft SFF" case.


@omega24
That wouldn't make a real difference. The bigger problem with a sandwich design is that you have to settle for a video card size. A layout for three-slot coolers would waste space (that might have to be taken from the mainboard compartment and the CPU cooler height), a two-slot layout would be more space efficient but limit compatibility for high-end video cards. A layered layout like in the C4 allows for better compatibility with high-end components, but limits the use of air-cooler for the CPU and almost requires to opt for an AiO.

Then again in a layered layout like the Ophion the user decide to cool the GPU instead of the CPU with an AiO. Decisions, decisions. I think that a sandwich layout would be smarter, but it would liekly force me to get an AiO for the high-end Radeon that I want to use (therefore I hope that Dan won't listen to me and just finalize the C4).

 

[Woxys]

I wounder how the old C4 case design would look with the new design top grill. Maybe those few mm given by the new top grill will help with the side panel mounting problem.

 

[TheStryder]

I vote for the first and original design/render.

And i really hope to see this case for sale next year as am planing to build myself a new ITX build to replace my current Lian Li PC-Q37 case

<3 !

Personally i dont mind if the case will be a bit wider to find a solution for the side panel mountings, maybe it will look even better.

I definitely welcome this design with the perforated top if it means I can attach additional fans. Personally for airflow I would have the AIO at the top to push out air and fans at the bottom to pull in.

Any ETA on this? Aiming to build a new PC by February 2019 and would love to get in on this case.

 

[IronLegacy45]

Wouldn’t moving to the old sandwich design restrict airflow to the radiator more than the current design? The way it’s set up now, the radiator basically has it’s whole face open and can suck air directly from the top down, or bottom up. If you have the sandwich design, there’s now a part of the frame that runs across the middle of the radiator. Not sure how much that would affect performance.

that wouldn't make too much of a difference to be honest because even though it is something that runs througn the middle of the chassis, it still is going to be thin enough to not affect the performance of the aio.

yep I understood that! I asked because with the hard riser we were given support to 2 and 2,5 slot GPUs. This, obviously, by decreasing the distance with the CPU. WIth the old A4/Ghost design, this is not an option and I suppose, space available for CPU & GPU is fixed. Hence my question and the suggestion/request to have a bigger compartment for GPU (at least 2,5 slot) as probably everybody who will buy this case will use an AIO for his/her CPU (optmistic, as I suppose we are all men here )

If the c4's dimensions remain the same with its w=130mm, then dondan can give about 61-62mm for clearance for the gpu so as to have basically no compatibility issues with any of the gpus on the market and still have left about 68-69mm clearance for the components on the other side (in the expectation that most of us are going the watercooling route )

 

[Kelly]

@dondan When might the case be available, will it be next year? I plan to buy some watercooling stuff this coming black friday, and I hope that it won't suddenly overlap with the schedule of the release of the case.

 

[IronLegacy45]

@dondan When might the case be available, will it be next year? I plan to buy some watercooling stuff this coming black friday, and I hope that it won't suddenly overlap with the schedule of the release of the case.

Don't worry, this case won't be coming to the market before next year.

 

[Kelly]

Don't worry, this case won't be coming to the market before next year.

Hope so, The original concept was masterpiece, and as a person who loves mini-itx systems, I'd be a shame not being able to join in

 

[Acquire]

This is the most important sentence in your text and tell me that you are didn't know about what you are speak.

The A4 has never a problem with GPU cooling and a build with an GTX 1080 + 8 core Ryzen is easy to cool inside it. GPU boosts are higer as in bigger tower systems.

There is a point in SFF where you have to set the limits. For me this is 2.5 Slot GPUs. If Asus decide for 4 Slot cards in 2020 should i change thdme design again? No because it is impossible to support every card.

In my opinion more than 2 slot cards does not match the idea behind SFF and with 2.5 Slot in the C4 we have more then enough space . As you see the very nice Nvidia RTX Founder Edition cards comes in 2 Slot design why not use them?

Furthermore the sandwich layout will be inefficent if you come close to 140-150mm in width.

You could just Google Dan case a4 and search for CPU or GPU cooling. You'll see a lot of results from people having thermal problems on i7 k series CPUs. You'll see a lot of people having problems with 1080 Tis, the few that can even fit into the case. General opinion from people I've read when researching this case is to stay away with high end hardware. Bitwit just made a video of how he had to downgrade to a lower end amd CPU because of the awful thermals in your case.

The information is out there. Not my fault you choose to ignore it because of your sff philosophy that is clearly incompatible with most high end hardware. Go to Newegg right now and compare the ratio of rtx 2080 Tis that'll actually fit into your case to those that don't. It's not a good looking ratio. Now look up the reviews for those cards and compare cooling and noise. That's the reason for not using a reference or blower rtx 2080 ti. There are far better alternatives that in the grand scheme of things are only sightly larger, especially in slot width. You also mention not wanting to update your design for just one card. That's understandable. However, again, look up the custom variants of the 1080 ti, 2080, and 2080 ti, the industry (MSI, gigabyte, Asus, zotac, etc) is standardizing on over 2 slot designs. This isn't just Asus going rogue. It's baffling that you think adding an extra slot for the gpu is somehow destroying your philosophy. Your philosophy is that of hot and loud and not based on what the current market majority even offers.

Also, I haven't built myself a mini itx system in a year. Since a lot of people are hanging on to me saying "a while" originally. I abandoned it when I moved to a strix 1080 ti, which no mini itx case will fit with any semblance of reasonable cooling.
I got tired of my PC sounding like a jet engine and running hot. This was in a fractal design node 304.

 

[chanberg]

when can i buy one? lol

 

[tenrose]

this case looks wonderful can i just buy the prototype?

 

[IronLegacy45]

this case looks wonderful can i just buy the prototype?

you wish...if that was possible, i would have ordered it the moment it went online

 

[schn1tt3r]

Hey, is there any plan or possibility to mount a 3,5" HDD in the front space?

I doubt it, but with the stupid cheap price of 1TB SSD's (and dropping even more), you should leave the 3.5 in the past, I've swapped 3.5 for external USB already, waiting on this case to go double m.2 and one 1TB SSD.

 

[omod]

Any update on this survey? Just want to make sure I don't miss it.

 

[Sean Crees]

What are the next steps?

While you discuss the topic I had the important "AHA moment" yesterday I am waiting for the last weeks. So I found a solution for the classical C4-SFX design to solve the attaching problem with slide in mechanism without adding many millimeters to the case.
I will give it try. But before I will draw it in SolidWorks I will do a survey later today to check if it is worth to talk about the riser topic again. So you can decide between sandwitch layout with flexible riser like the A4-SFX or hard riser like C4-SFX. The price difference will be 30$ for the final product.

One of the reasons i really like the hard riser layout is it puts both the CPU and the GPU on the same side, so you can easily see both from the same viewing angle when you have a window on the case. There are a lot of people out there that really want a case that they can easily show off, like the youtubers do with that B roll footage of case reviews. Especially on watercooling rigs, which this seems to be more designed towards over the A4-SFX. Also, the whole option to flip top/bottom, left/right is a really cool concept.

Also, the Loque Ghost already does the A4-SFX layout with radiator support. This new layout makes this case more unique.

 

[chinyang]

Looking at the size of current RTX cards, assuming will be watercooling the cpu with 120mm AIO, is there a possibility to increase compatibility of GPU to 3 slot cards without increasing the footprint of the case?