DAN C4-SFX - old
- Thread starter dondan
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My Dan Case a4 SFX v2 is in order, however I might want to go for your C4-SFX.
When would this be on kickstarter or your website?
When would this be on kickstarter or your website?
Hey dondan, one thing that has kept me from pulling the trigger on your A4-SFX was the complaints about the power-button. Such a stupid little thing, I know...but that is the one component on the case the case that I touch every day I use it. I wish I could test it at a store to see if these complaints were off-base or with merit but before I lay down this much cash site-unseen, I'd like to know if you've made any changes to it. Did you feel those complaints were justified with the A4-SFX? Did you make any changes for the C4-SFX based on that feed-back?
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@george5, @Fledder : Mid of 2018
@xpatriatedtexan: For the C4-SFX the power button will be glued to the internal switch so the feedback of the button will be very good and there will be no wobbling.
@Marvelm: It will be very tricky to made a window kit for it. I have this on my to-do list for C4-SFX v2
@ALL:
Some guys requested a pass on the backside for external components like radiators under the desk or reservoir on the backside. What do you think about my implimentation of the Lian Li rubber pass?
@xpatriatedtexan: For the C4-SFX the power button will be glued to the internal switch so the feedback of the button will be very good and there will be no wobbling.
@Marvelm: It will be very tricky to made a window kit for it. I have this on my to-do list for C4-SFX v2
@ALL:
Some guys requested a pass on the backside for external components like radiators under the desk or reservoir on the backside. What do you think about my implimentation of the Lian Li rubber pass?
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Furthermore I made two versions of the middle plate. I will test both on the prototype:
The left version is the new one the fan's will be covered by two 120mm fan guards/grill that will be included. The cover is necessary to prevent PSU wires falling in the fan. Also the left version will have a higher air flow through the middle plate. The disadvantage is, that I have to think about a new way to mount the bottom HDD bay, because the left fan guard will block the mount points.
The right version will have not the same high airflow like the left version this could be irrelevant,but it will provide a better stability for the case and support for the current HDD bay version.
If you take a deeper look on the picture you will see that I add some slot holes to the riser to increase the airflow in the motherboard area.
What do you think about it?
The left version is the new one the fan's will be covered by two 120mm fan guards/grill that will be included. The cover is necessary to prevent PSU wires falling in the fan. Also the left version will have a higher air flow through the middle plate. The disadvantage is, that I have to think about a new way to mount the bottom HDD bay, because the left fan guard will block the mount points.
The right version will have not the same high airflow like the left version this could be irrelevant,but it will provide a better stability for the case and support for the current HDD bay version.
If you take a deeper look on the picture you will see that I add some slot holes to the riser to increase the airflow in the motherboard area.
What do you think about it?
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Furthermore I made two versions of the middle plate. I will test both on the prototype:
The left version is the new one the fan's will be covered by two 120mm fan guards/grill that will be included. The cover is necessary to prevent PSU wires falling in the fan. Also the left version will have a higher air flow through the middle plate. The disadvantage is, that I have to think about a new way to mount the bottom HDD bay, because the left fan guard will block the mount points.
The right version will have not the same high airflow like the left version this could be irrelevant,but it will provide a better stability for the case and support for the current HDD bay version.
If you take a deeper look on the picture you will see that I add some slot holes to the riser to increase the airflow in the motherboard area.
What do you think about it?
I can't imagine the difference in airflow would be THAT significant to justify using two fan grills; and you could always try to make the grill-cross section (in the design to the right) even thinner. The reasons why I think it is better with the right one are:
1) HDD-bay is quite important for those who need it, and I rather see it there, than not.
2) Since more material is used in the design to the right, it is also more sturdy, and will hinder the case from being wobbly, even when empty, which will give a more premium feel - something one wants after paying high dollars for these cases
3). It just looks so darn cheap and lazy to only have two grills instead of having something that feels and looks thought-out. I'm sorry if I'm shallow, but for the price range I expect this case to be in, nothing should look cheap or lazy.
Those were my two cents.
I'd be truly happy to see wire grilles or equivalent removable solutions over fixed ones. On top of the superior acoustic/airflow performance when installed, they offer the chance to be completely removed. I get it that some like the look of various mesh patterns but it's sad to see restrictive and fixed meshes that have a small practical value, in an expensive and otherwise thought-out case.
Example. Doesn't protrude as much (at all) as wire grille:
Example. Doesn't protrude as much (at all) as wire grille:
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There is a massive difference in both fan airflow and noise levels between fan grills and slotted vents.
Why the air cooling principle of the C4-SFX will be better as the principle of the A4-SFX:
The first thought of many users that take a first look on the layout of the C4-SFX is:
“The CPU cooler will be choke behind the GPU!”
The case is designed around the idea of using two 120mm fans in the bottom area. This means any use-case without case fans in the bottom is not supported. The case fans will generate a continuous airflow between GPU and motherboard. Because of the small size of the C4-SFX the heat exchange will be very fast also on low fan speed. The main advantage of this concept is the fact, that there will be not left hot air inside the case. This is a huge advantage against the A4-SFX. A continuous airflow will reduce M.2 SSD, motherboard components and GPU backside temperature.
For extreme hardware constellations like Hex/Octacore CPU’s and GPU’s like the 1080 Ti the exhaust temperature of these components are very high. For the A4-SFX these components will increase the ambient temperature inside the case, so motherboard components and SSDs become very hot. Inside the C4-SFX the heat will be move out very quick.
Some of you may think:
“The CPU cooler will get a lot of hot air from the backside of the GPU”
The continuous airflow of fresh air inside the case will feed the fan of the PSU and also the fan of the CPU heatsink. A part of this air will also travel the backside of the GPU and will be heated up by it. With airflow the increase will be very low, because the air will pass the GPU backside very quick so there is no chance to warming it up to a level that will be negative for the CPU heatsink. Also hot air that will be generated by the CPU will not be recycled by the CPU fan because the bottom fan sucks it away.
A second interesting option for customers that are planning to use big heatsink’s like the Cryorig C1 or Thermalright AXP200 is the SEMI-PASSIV cooling mode. If you mount the heatsink without the included fan and rotate it in this way that fresh air from the topside can easily pass through the heatsink it will work. Connect the bottom case fans with a Y-cable to the CPU fan port of your motherboard so it will act like CPU fans. Now they will spin faster if the CPU temperature will be higher and sucking more air through the heatsink. This will allow much bigger heatsinks and will be in interesting alternative to water cooling setups.
The cooling concept is very similar to a rack mounted server with the advantage of using bigger case fans for lower noise.
I hope this drawing made it clear:
Summary:
Feel free to ask questions if something is not clear.
The first thought of many users that take a first look on the layout of the C4-SFX is:
“The CPU cooler will be choke behind the GPU!”
The case is designed around the idea of using two 120mm fans in the bottom area. This means any use-case without case fans in the bottom is not supported. The case fans will generate a continuous airflow between GPU and motherboard. Because of the small size of the C4-SFX the heat exchange will be very fast also on low fan speed. The main advantage of this concept is the fact, that there will be not left hot air inside the case. This is a huge advantage against the A4-SFX. A continuous airflow will reduce M.2 SSD, motherboard components and GPU backside temperature.
For extreme hardware constellations like Hex/Octacore CPU’s and GPU’s like the 1080 Ti the exhaust temperature of these components are very high. For the A4-SFX these components will increase the ambient temperature inside the case, so motherboard components and SSDs become very hot. Inside the C4-SFX the heat will be move out very quick.
Some of you may think:
“The CPU cooler will get a lot of hot air from the backside of the GPU”
The continuous airflow of fresh air inside the case will feed the fan of the PSU and also the fan of the CPU heatsink. A part of this air will also travel the backside of the GPU and will be heated up by it. With airflow the increase will be very low, because the air will pass the GPU backside very quick so there is no chance to warming it up to a level that will be negative for the CPU heatsink. Also hot air that will be generated by the CPU will not be recycled by the CPU fan because the bottom fan sucks it away.
A second interesting option for customers that are planning to use big heatsink’s like the Cryorig C1 or Thermalright AXP200 is the SEMI-PASSIV cooling mode. If you mount the heatsink without the included fan and rotate it in this way that fresh air from the topside can easily pass through the heatsink it will work. Connect the bottom case fans with a Y-cable to the CPU fan port of your motherboard so it will act like CPU fans. Now they will spin faster if the CPU temperature will be higher and sucking more air through the heatsink. This will allow much bigger heatsinks and will be in interesting alternative to water cooling setups.
The cooling concept is very similar to a rack mounted server with the advantage of using bigger case fans for lower noise.
I hope this drawing made it clear:
Summary:
- no left hot air inside the case
- no recycled hot air for the CPU heatsink
- CPU heatsink will be inside a cooling tunnel so a semi-passive mode is possible
- much better temperature for motherboard components, backside of the GPU and M.2 SSD
Feel free to ask questions if something is not clear.
@K888D: You are right. I made a test. I cutout my hole design for a single 120mm fan on a cardboard with a plotter. With the cardboard attached the fan is much more noisy. Here is a website that comes to the same result:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Effects-of-Grill-Patterns-on-Fan-Performance-Noise-107/
So for noise the grill is the best option.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Effects-of-Grill-Patterns-on-Fan-Performance-Noise-107/
So for noise the grill is the best option.
I stand corrected then.
These results now make me wonder whether or not I should install dust filters or not in my own custom case.... Thanks for the headsup!
Hi there,
this is the second survey for the C4-SFX. I need your help once more for some design questions that will affect the outer look and GPU compatibility. So your choice will have a direct impact on the final product.
Link to survey:
Google Forms Survey
Thank you for your help!
this is the second survey for the C4-SFX. I need your help once more for some design questions that will affect the outer look and GPU compatibility. So your choice will have a direct impact on the final product.
Link to survey:
Google Forms Survey
Thank you for your help!
Done.
It was a difficult decision between the 2 and the 2.5 slot gpu's. I chose the latter.
I think that if anyone needs a SFF aircooled dan case, he could probably buy the A4-SFX. It's smaller and it can host high end hardware in it (95W cpu and a 2 slot 1080/Vega 64).
If anyone wants a watercooled dan case, he can buy the C4-SFX, so he does not need the extra space for the cooler while he will probably need the space for a 2.5 slot gpu. Actually the buyer could target the extreme high end hardware for this case (100+W cpu, water cooling, 1080Ti or a 2.5 slot 1080). By chosing 2 slot gpu/larger cpu cooler, you practically condemne the case since it cannot host extreme gpus while the 2.5 slot gpu owner at all probabillity will use water and not air cooling.
It was a difficult decision between the 2 and the 2.5 slot gpu's. I chose the latter.
I think that if anyone needs a SFF aircooled dan case, he could probably buy the A4-SFX. It's smaller and it can host high end hardware in it (95W cpu and a 2 slot 1080/Vega 64).
If anyone wants a watercooled dan case, he can buy the C4-SFX, so he does not need the extra space for the cooler while he will probably need the space for a 2.5 slot gpu. Actually the buyer could target the extreme high end hardware for this case (100+W cpu, water cooling, 1080Ti or a 2.5 slot 1080). By chosing 2 slot gpu/larger cpu cooler, you practically condemne the case since it cannot host extreme gpus while the 2.5 slot gpu owner at all probabillity will use water and not air cooling.
I did reply, that I like the DAN-logo on the front. HOWEVER! That depends on how it is made. If you make it bright white or lit-up I wouldn't like it. I want the logo to be subtle, perhaps some polished metal in contrast to the otherwise matt finish or something like that. If that can't be done, then keep it clean. Something like this: https://pimages.solidsignal.com/C31030-001A-BKBK_zoom.jpg
I would also love to see options for thicker side panels with sound dampening, or side panels made out of akrylic glass (so it is possible to drill holes for ventilation; not possible on tempered glass).
I would also love to see options for thicker side panels with sound dampening, or side panels made out of akrylic glass (so it is possible to drill holes for ventilation; not possible on tempered glass).
@dondan i think that the pre drilled rubber holes are not important at all. Here is why.
You need a 90 degree fittings and radiator placed at the bottom.
Radiators have different spacing between G 1/4 inch ports and even tho the fitting can be rotated, the tubing will kink and stop the flow.
If user need external rad/pump/chiller they can drill holes themselves, as they probably know their way arround modding if they want external enclousure.
Of course this is just my OP, and the survey will show what users preffer.
You need a 90 degree fittings and radiator placed at the bottom.
Radiators have different spacing between G 1/4 inch ports and even tho the fitting can be rotated, the tubing will kink and stop the flow.
If user need external rad/pump/chiller they can drill holes themselves, as they probably know their way arround modding if they want external enclousure.
Of course this is just my OP, and the survey will show what users preffer.
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