DAN C4-SFX - old

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Nanook

King of Cable Management
May 23, 2016
805
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I got to 55mm height by adding the two following:
  • 30mm to accommodate a much greater range of radiators
  • 25mm to accommodate regular fan thickness. Most popular AIO kits comes with 25mm fans
Having 55mm will allow most builders to use their current AIO kits, and also allow for some builders (like me) to try to fit a custom loop in there. :)
 

KSliger

King of Cable Management
Sliger Designs
Gold Supporter
May 8, 2015
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Flip design is probably going to need a GPU brace, GPU may sag out of slot on the riser - I would not go to prototype with that hanging GPU design.

PSU is oriented for drawing air from inside case, and then blowing it back in the case?

Why not make it slightly bigger for 55mm AIO and add support for 120mm AIO CPU cooler + EVGA 1080 TI Hybrid Gaming type solution? Yes it'd be a bit taller and deeper, but once you cover every possible AIO solution you'd get a lot of sales from people carrying over existing hardware.

Carrying over existing hardware is a huge selling point, as they can afford the ~$200 case, but not the $200 case and a new $140 AIO cooler when they already have an AIO that's not supported.

That'd also open up for people using 120mm CPU AIO to use the other half for SSD or HDD mounting.
 

dondan

SFF Guru
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Feb 23, 2015
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@ALL: Here is a small rendering to show you how the bottom cooling part looks like. For you information: The most often 240 radiator thickness is 27mm on the market. Only Corsair is with 30mm a bit higher. The current height for the AIO + FAN area is 42mm I am thinking of adding 5mm to support the following configurations:

*22mm radiator + up to 25mm thick fan
*27mm radiator + up to 20mm thick fan (Noctua A12x15 will fit)
*30mm radiator + up to 17mm thick fan (Noctua A12x15 will fit)



Some of you wonder why I configured it with fan bushing to the bottom so they will work against thermal convection. The thermal convection in PC case temp range is very low so two 120mm fans can easily disable it. Furthermore fans that come close to a ground will lost performance and become noisy if they suck air from the ground. If the fan blows to the ground the distance can be very low and also the noise level is low.


Some other forum members mentioned that if you use higher case feets you can use bigger fans. This is wrong because it will collide with the outer panel.



@Nanook:
Sorry but 55mm is too much for me. I wish I can respect every request but if you create a SFF case there is a point where you have to stop increasing the size. I reached that point with adding 5mm to have 47mm in total.

@KSliger:
The PCB riser has a holding clip on the PCIe socket. The card is screwed and clipped in so it will not sag. Also the PCIe Riser is screwed to the case. MSI did the same holding mechanism with the Nightblade M1 and shipped the products with mounted GPU. I think 55mm height for the bottom area is too much. This is a SFF project so I like to keep it as small as possible. If a customer needs max. AIO compatibility the M1 is the better choice.
 
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AleksandarK

/dev/null
May 14, 2017
703
773
I like it so much. I just have two questions:
1.What are the max radiator dimensions?
2.With your "just flip it" concept, would the front be able to be rotated? So you dont end up with downside logo, which annoys a LOT of people.
 
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Nanook

King of Cable Management
May 23, 2016
805
791
@ALL: Here is a small rendering to show you how the bottom cooling part looks like. For you information: The most often 240 radiator thickness is 27mm on the market. Only Corsair is with 30mm a bit higher. The current height for the AIO + FAN area is 42mm I am thinking of adding 5mm to support the following configurations:

*22mm radiator + up to 25mm thick fan
*27mm radiator + up to 20mm thick fan (Noctua A12x15 will fit)
*30mm radiator + up to 17mm thick fan (Noctua A12x15 will fit)



Some of you wonder why I configured it with fan bushing to the bottom so they will work against thermal convection. The thermal convection in PC case temp range is very low so two 120mm fans can easily disable it. Furthermore fans that come close to a ground will lost performance and become noisy if they suck air from the ground. If the fan blows to the ground the distance can be very low and also the noise level is low.


Some other forum members mentioned that if you use higher case feets you can use bigger fans. This is wrong because it will collide with the outer panel.



@Nanook:
Sorry but 55mm is too much for me. I wish I can respect every request but if you create a SFF case there is a point where you have to stop increasing the size. I reached that point with adding 5mm to have 47mm in total.

@KSliger:
The PCB riser has a holding clip on the PCIe socket. The card is screwed and clipped in so it will not sag. Also the PCIe Riser is screwed to the case. MSI did the same holding mechanism with the Nightblade M1 and shipped the products with mounted GPU. I think 55mm height for the bottom area is too much. This is a SFF project so I like to keep it as small as possible. If a customer needs max. AIO compatibility the M1 is the better choice.
That’s awesome that you were able to add a little bit more space to accommodate the Noctua slim fans. :)
 
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NADRIGOL

Caliper Novice
Sep 25, 2017
23
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Very cool design.

Like @KSliger I would have loved to see the ability to use a pair of 120mm AIO rads on the bottom (i.e. a Corsair H60 on the CPU and an EVGA Hybrid GPU). I also would have loved to see 50-55mm in the bottom. So many AIOs (both the ones I mentioned) are 25mm rads, and the best rad fans on the market are 25mm high static pressure fans like the Nidec Servo Gentle Typhoon 2150RPM or the EK Varder F4-120ER.

Edit: It looks like the rad/fan mounting at the bottom has more than enough space on the side with the tubing... could the mounting holes be centred to allow tubing to come up on either/both end(s) of the assembly?
 

oceanmechanic

Efficiency Noob
New User
Sep 15, 2017
5
1
Very cool design.

Like @KSliger I would have loved to see the ability to use a pair of 120mm AIO rads on the bottom (i.e. a Corsair H60 on the CPU and an EVGA Hybrid GPU). I also would have loved to see 50-55mm in the bottom. So many AIOs (both the ones I mentioned) are 25mm rads, and the best rad fans on the market are 25mm high static pressure fans like the Nidec Servo Gentle Typhoon 2150RPM or the EK Varder F4-120ER.

Edit: It looks like the rad/fan mounting at the bottom has more than enough space on the side with the tubing... could the mounting holes be centred to allow tubing to come up on either/both end(s) of the assembly?
I'd be really interested in this as well. A single 240 AIO for either a GPU or CPU is great, but sticking a 120 on both would seriously lower operating noise.

It looks like this guy managed to cram 2 120's into a m1, which is designed to support a 240.
 

dondan

SFF Guru
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Feb 23, 2015
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@georg5: Just get the Thermaltake Water 3.0 and switch the fan to Noctua A12x15.
 

dondan

SFF Guru
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Feb 23, 2015
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Maybe I have to make a poll to see if nearly everyone wants 25mm fan support for radiator usage.
I have the same feeling about 25mm fans that I have with 3.5" hdd drives. It misfit the idea behind SFF systems and sometimes you have to go new ways to see that it will also work.
And if 15mm thick fans will become more popular the industry will follow and we will see more thin 120mm fans on the market.
Furthermore if you use the "SilverStone Tundra TD02-SLIM V2" you can use 25mm thick fans with my increased design that have 47mm space for radiator + fan.
 

Redwaygg

What's an ITX?
Sep 27, 2017
1
1
@dondan I just sign up for this amazing project.

Here are few questions:
1. Are you still asking Lian Li to manufacture the case?
2. Do you think a hybrid or watercooled graphics card will fit will expandable AIOs?
The render with ROG 980ti make me doubt if a ROG Poseidon 1080ti will fit with Fractal Design's AIO in this case.

BTW I think 25mm fan is so much better when it comes to radiators.
There's some great 25mm fans like EK Vardar, Gentle Typhoon, Corsair ML120 which perform better then Noctua A12x15 and the SCYTHE 12mm fan while making little noise. I don't think it's the same as 3.5'' HDDs, you've already made 43mm concession on the height for better cooling solutions, why not make 10mm more for quiet and efficiency?

Anyway, it's still great to see a new case coming from you. I'm hoping to purchase one when it's available on Kickstarters.

(sorry for the language)
 
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MerkuR

Efficiency Noob
May 31, 2017
6
4
As someone looking for a smaller NCASE alternative with vertical GPU positioning, USB-C (plus the rest of front I/O ports), watercooling capabilities and outstanding design, I must have to say that you achieve perfection with this idea Dan, my sincere admiration and respect for such amazing work. :)

Now, I think there's a few improvements here and there that could turn a perfect idea into a perfect product. Some are my personal preferences and by no means do I want to change your original vision, but I think is worth to mention in case you want to consider some aspects:

1.- The design and size is perfect and I already love it (including the brilliant idea of flip it in order to get the power button and I/O ports in the right, very convenient), but would be absolutely PERFECT if the default position of the radiator and I/O ports at the bottom would be right-positioned instead of left. I think most of us have the PC next to the right and it will be fantastic (with the possibility of flip over and put in the other way, off course).
2.- As a Strix GTX 1080 owner that barely fits in my NCASE, I would appreciate 5 aditional mm of room for GPU, due your size limitation (295 mm) and the Asus Strix size (298 mm). Probably it will fit, but I think 300 mm is a great maximum lenght for such a perfect case like yours, and the Strix 1080/1070 is a popular card.
3.- This is one personal, but I prefer black USB Type-A port instead of blue as a cleaner and more elegant touch for an already refined and pleasant design. I think the "wow" modern factor of the blue is no more relevant in 2017 as most of the modern cases have USB 3.0 ports in the front I/O panel.
4.- Do you think is it possible to separate the GPU to the back and put the motherboard more in the front, just like the A4-SFX? I think it will be a great oportunity to extend the GPU thickness compatibility taking advantage of the lack of CPU air coolers in the Mobo area (plus, if you have some nice AIO RGB waterblock, it won't be covered by the GPU, and might open the door for future window closed panels, as the air flow comes from below).

Aside from that, I have no problems with the radiator thickness nor fans, maybe just the color of the Noctua fans, but surely there will be other thin fans that could fit.

Keep it up with the project, now I know what would be my next case!
 
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alamilla

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Feb 11, 2016
120
114
Great design @dondan
I have to agree with a lot of those on here and would prefer there be compatibility for larger AIOs.
55mm seems excessive but the large majority of Asetek designs by Corsair/NZXT/etc. could then be used.
 

dondan

SFF Guru
Original poster
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Feb 23, 2015
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@george5:
Than get these fans SilverStone FN123: https://geizhals.de/silverstone-fn123-schwarz-weiss-sst-fn123-a1179725.html?hloc=at&hloc=de
They costs only the half and have nearly the same air pressure.

@Redwaygg:
Yes Lian Li will manufacture it.
If you mean the Fractal Design AiO S24 maybe this could work.

@MerkuR:
The GTX 1080 Strix fits in the A4-SFX so it will also fit inside the C4-H2O because GPU compatibility is nearly the same.
I will aks LL about USB black ports
THe layout change will require a 3M riser and this will result in a higher price and longer production time.
 

dondan

SFF Guru
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Feb 23, 2015
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@All:

Before I offer the poll about fan compatibility I made a list of compatible 240mm AiOs.
The case supports radiators with the following max specs:

295mm length
122,5mm width
height depends on fan configuration

AiOs that are based on Alphacool radiators will not fit because there are 124mm in width. Also some radiators with labels on the site will not fit.
From my own experience I regocment Asetek based AiOs, because they have support for every socket and if you reduce the pump RPM they are very quiet.



22mm height (Link):

* SilverStone Tundra TD02-SLIM V2 (273 x 120 x 22) = OK



27mm height (prefered class) (Link)

* Akasa Venom A20 (272 x 120 x 27) = OK

* Antec Mercury M240 (no data) = ?
* Cooler Master MasterLiquid 240 (277 x 119,6 x 27) = OK
* Cooler Master MasterLiquid Pro 240 (275 x 118,5 x 27) = OK
* Cooler Master Seidon 240V (273 x 120 x 27) = OK
* Corsair Hydro Series H100i (275 x 122 x 27) = OK
* DeepCool Captain Series = not fit (pump height)
* DeepCool MaelStrom 240T (274 x 120 x 27) = OK
* Enermax Liqmax II 240 (274 x 120 x 27) = OK
* ID-Cooling Auraflow 240 (274 x 120 x 27) = OK
* LC-Power LC-CC-240-LiCo (274 x 120 x 27) = OK
* LEPA Aquachanger 240 (274 x 120 x 27) = OK
* MagiCool AiO MC-A240A (272 x 120 x 27) = OK
* SilverStone Tundra TD02-LITE-V2 (273 x 120 x 27) = OK
* SilverStone Tundra TD02-E-V2 (278 x 124 x 27) = not fit (radiator width)
* Thermaltake Water 3.0 Extreme S (270 x 120 x 27) = OK
* Cryorig A40 (272 x 120 x 27,5) = OK


30mm+ height (Link)

* AeroCool Likai 240 (274 x 120,5 x 29 ) = OK

* Alphacool Eisbaer 240 (277 x 124 x 27,5) = not fit (pump height & radiator width)
* be quiet! Silent Loop 240 (277 x 124 x 27,5) = not fit (radiator width)
* Corsair Hydro Series H100i v2 (276 x 125 x 30) = maybe (maybe if you remove label)
* Fractal Design Celsius S24 (284 x 122 x 31) = OK
* NZXT Kraken X52 (275 x 123 x 30) = maybe ( I think the values are wrong because based on Asetek radiator)

(all Data are collected from the product specification pages, so there could be wrong values!)
 
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