DAN A4-SFX v4.1
- Thread starter dondan
- Start date
I am not a fan of windows in general for this case as it would hamper cooling and there is no room to install any exhaust fan really. Pat-Roner raises a good concern about the second windowed version, as that could very well easily crack/break under international transport.
I have seen several pictures of unlucky Ncase M1 v1 backers that had their case totally dismantled by the time it arrived at their local post office.
I have seen several pictures of unlucky Ncase M1 v1 backers that had their case totally dismantled by the time it arrived at their local post office.
For those of you not in on the Kickstarter, Dan sent out an update today indicating that backer cases will be shipped out starting in January.
(I feel a bit better about recently deciding to put off component shopping until the new year for other reasons. Only a tiny bit, though.)
(I feel a bit better about recently deciding to put off component shopping until the new year for other reasons. Only a tiny bit, though.)
It looks like the first round of A4's are shipping:
https://hardforum.com/threads/dan-a...in-the-world.1799326/page-172#post-1042674262
Once the KS backers get their cases, retail availability should come shortly after.
On the website, the FAQ still says :
When will it be available again?
End 2016 on Caseking.de and Overclockers.co.uk.
If this is the case that you have been eyeing, be sure to keep your fingers crossed!
https://hardforum.com/threads/dan-a...in-the-world.1799326/page-172#post-1042674262
Once the KS backers get their cases, retail availability should come shortly after.
On the website, the FAQ still says :
When will it be available again?
End 2016 on Caseking.de and Overclockers.co.uk.
If this is the case that you have been eyeing, be sure to keep your fingers crossed!
DAN Cases A4-SFX Window Kit Prototype Test
Introduction:
I plan to offer a Window Kit for the A4-SFX in summer 2017. It will be accessories so you can buy it separately. I plan to sell each side for its own,
so you can decide if you need only one side or both. Therefore I worked with Lian Li on two samples. One with tempered glass and the other one is made
out of acryl. The design isn’t final so if you have wishes or ideas to the design don’t wait and write your comment in the thread.
Acryl/Plexi Version:
I use a 3mm thick acryl glass for this version. The acryl version is a bit darker then the tempered glass one. The quality is nearly on the same level
as the tempered glass version. Every corner is rounded so it looks really high grade. After I removed the protection foil the first time the acryl is
static charged. This means the panel attracts hair and dust. Wiping the panels with a wet cleaning rag will stop that forever.
For the final price the acryl is around 10€ cheaper.
(click for higher resolution)
Tempered Glass Version:
For the tempered glass version I had trouble getting what I want. In Taiwan the tempered glass market is controlled by the government, so it is very hard
to get every thickness and color. For the needed 3mm version it was impossible to get it in tea black, so I have to use the default version.
Furthermore tempered glass has restriction for the holes. I had to use a 5mm diameter for the mounting holes and the distance from the holes to the outer
surface has to be 18mm.
Every corner is rounded so it looks really high grade. The corners have a green gloss that is typical for not colored tempered glass. I have no static charged
problem with the tempered glass panels.
(click for higher resolution)
Temperature Values:
I spend the last two days of testing the panels in different benchmarks and with different heatsink. All tests were made on my Socket X99 Setup with a
six core Intel i7 5820K and a Nvidia GTX 1070 Founders Edition. In the test are two new coolers present, that I managed to mount on the 2011-3 socket.
The new Thermalright AXP100H and the secret Nexus 7000 Low R2 (nearly sold out).
I will give you more information about the coolers later.
If you review the temperature test you will see, that temperatures will be much higher with the window kit. While gaming the temps and GPU fans speed on a
passable value, but after I start heavy benchmarks like 3D Mark and Prime95 the temps are rising in bad regions. I did a bit of research and found out what the problem is.
The glass is mounted with 5mm stand offs with the idea to have a small gab, that will help the exchange of hot air and yes this works, but not as good as
expected. At the beginning of every test the temperatures are in a good range, but for every minute the test will run longer the temperatures increase more and
more like a helix of temp death.
To explain why the temps are higher, I have to explain why the default panel will work so well:
- The fan can suck fresh air directly from the outside. Nearly 90% of the air will be taken from the outside and not from the inside.
- The fan creates positive air pressure inside the case, because of blowing air inside. This pressure will force hot air to move outside on the top.
Now I will explain it for the window panel:
- The fan suck fresh air not directly from the outside, because there are no venting holes in the glass. So nearly 80% of the air will be used air from the
inside. I thought the gab will be enough to getting new fresh air, but a small 92mm fan is not strong and fast enough for this. So only 20% of the air will be air from the gab. - The window kit isn’t closed enough, so the fan isn’t able to crate positive pressure because the air can move everywhere.
These two reasons will increase the temp more and more, because the fan recycles hot air. It will stop at the point, where the 20% exchange through the gab
is enough for holding the temperature.
Conclusion:
For myself, I am very happy with the look, quality and feel of the new side panels. I made the decision to use them permanent on my system and living with
higher temps because benchmarking is not my daily business.
But the best surprise for me of the new test is the Nexus 7000 Low R2, it looks so great and is so powerful. But the best thing it is currently the best
heatsink for the A4 and it will also work with the default panels. (I will offer a how-to later)
Your decision:
Now it is up to you. Keep in mind that I used a 140W TDP CPU with the window.
- Do you like the design of the panel?
- What is your favorite version tempered or acryl?
- Do you think the results are ok or should I redesign the panels?
- What is more important design or good cooling. Adding holes will make the visibility worse.
If you think you have a idea that can change everything or an optimizing to the current design like round corners for the glass, please use the attached picture to visualize your idea.
(click for higher resolution)
With best regards and thank you for reading and supporting me
Daniel
I like the design of the panels, the tempered glass one a bit for the greenish tint and heft.
I personally would prefer no vent holes on them as the results seem very acceptable if one's goal is the aesthetics and general performance instead of aesthetics and high scoring benchmarks.
Feels like it would work amazingly with glossy white and/or gray!
I personally would prefer no vent holes on them as the results seem very acceptable if one's goal is the aesthetics and general performance instead of aesthetics and high scoring benchmarks.
Feels like it would work amazingly with glossy white and/or gray!
Hey Daniel, great to see you again.
The design looks great! I really like how the geometry of windows matches the profile from the back of the case.
I personally prefer acrylic because,1. It weighs less and 2. It offers give/flexibility when removing the side panels.
I'm too afraid of the tempered glass shattering, especially if I planned to make it more portable.
That being said, I will likely get one without windows.
The design looks great! I really like how the geometry of windows matches the profile from the back of the case.
I personally prefer acrylic because,1. It weighs less and 2. It offers give/flexibility when removing the side panels.
I'm too afraid of the tempered glass shattering, especially if I planned to make it more portable.
That being said, I will likely get one without windows.
DAN Cases A4-SFX Window Kit Prototype Test
Introduction:
I plan to offer a Window Kit for the A4-SFX in summer 2017. It will be accessories so you can buy it separately. I plan to sell each side for its own,
so you can decide if you need only one side or both. Therefore I worked with Lian Li on two samples. One with tempered glass and the other one is made
out of acryl. The design isn’t final so if you have wishes or ideas to the design don’t wait and write your comment in the thread.
Acryl/Plexi Version:
I use a 3mm thick acryl glass for this version. The acryl version is a bit darker then the tempered glass one. The quality is nearly on the same level
as the tempered glass version. Every corner is rounded so it looks really high grade. After I removed the protection foil the first time the acryl is
static charged. This means the panel attracts hair and dust. Wiping the panels with a wet cleaning rag will stop that forever.
For the final price the acryl is around 10€ cheaper.
(click for higher resolution)
Tempered Glass Version:
For the tempered glass version I had trouble getting what I want. In Taiwan the tempered glass market is controlled by the government, so it is very hard
to get every thickness and color. For the needed 3mm version it was impossible to get it in tea black, so I have to use the default version.
Furthermore tempered glass has restriction for the holes. I had to use a 5mm diameter for the mounting holes and the distance from the holes to the outer
surface has to be 18mm.
Every corner is rounded so it looks really high grade. The corners have a green gloss that is typical for not colored tempered glass. I have no static charged
problem with the tempered glass panels.
(click for higher resolution)
Temperature Values:
I spend the last two days of testing the panels in different benchmarks and with different heatsink. All tests were made on my Socket X99 Setup with a
six core Intel i7 5820K and a Nvidia GTX 1070 Founders Edition. In the test are two new coolers present, that I managed to mount on the 2011-3 socket.
The new Thermalright AXP100H and the secret Nexus 7000 Low R2 (nearly sold out).
I will give you more information about the coolers later.
If you review the temperature test you will see, that temperatures will be much higher with the window kit. While gaming the temps and GPU fans speed on a
passable value, but after I start heavy benchmarks like 3D Mark and Prime95 the temps are rising in bad regions. I did a bit of research and found out what the problem is.
The glass is mounted with 5mm stand offs with the idea to have a small gab, that will help the exchange of hot air and yes this works, but not as good as
expected. At the beginning of every test the temperatures are in a good range, but for every minute the test will run longer the temperatures increase more and
more like a helix of temp death.
To explain why the temps are higher, I have to explain why the default panel will work so well:
- The fan can suck fresh air directly from the outside. Nearly 90% of the air will be taken from the outside and not from the inside.
- The fan creates positive air pressure inside the case, because of blowing air inside. This pressure will force hot air to move outside on the top.
Now I will explain it for the window panel:
- The fan suck fresh air not directly from the outside, because there are no venting holes in the glass. So nearly 80% of the air will be used air from the
inside. I thought the gab will be enough to getting new fresh air, but a small 92mm fan is not strong and fast enough for this. So only 20% of the air will be air from the gab.
- The window kit isn’t closed enough, so the fan isn’t able to crate positive pressure because the air can move everywhere.
These two reasons will increase the temp more and more, because the fan recycles hot air. It will stop at the point, where the 20% exchange through the gab
is enough for holding the temperature.
Conclusion:
For myself, I am very happy with the look, quality and feel of the new side panels. I made the decision to use them permanent on my system and living with
higher temps because benchmarking is not my daily business.
But the best surprise for me of the new test is the Nexus 7000 Low R2, it looks so great and is so powerful. But the best thing it is currently the best
heatsink for the A4 and it will also work with the default panels. (I will offer a how-to later)
Your decision:
Now it is up to you. Keep in mind that I used a 140W TDP CPU with the window.
- Do you like the design of the panel?
- What is your favorite version tempered or acryl?
- Do you think the results are ok or should I redesign the panels?
- What is more important design or good cooling. Adding holes will make the visibility worse.
If you think you have a idea that can change everything or an optimizing to the current design like round corners for the glass, please use the attached picture to visualize your idea.
(click for higher resolution)
With best regards and thank you for reading and supporting me
Daniel
Hi Dan, I love the look of the window panels!
If you choose to go down the Acrylic window panel route you could laser cut some ventilation holes/slot patterns into the windows?
I agree that one of the reasons for the increased temperature is re-circulation of heat, but a second reason for increased temperatures is a loss of fan performance due to the reduction in airflow 'run-up'.
If you put a solid wall close to the intake side of a fan it drastically reduces the airflow it pushes out the other side, even a distance of 50mm will affect the amount of air that a fan can pull through, as you get down towards a gap of 10mm or less the fan will be producing a fraction of its potential airflow.
You can test this by running a fan in free air and 'dangle' a piece of paper in front of the fan on the exhaust side and see how much the air bends the paper away from the fan, now start moving a flat solid surface/wall towards the intake side of the fan, you will notice the closer the surface gets the less the paper bends, you may be surprised at how big the gap is when this starts to happen. Now cut some slots into the surface and repeat the test, although the airflow is still reduced the reduction is not as great.
This is why cases such as the ML08 and Node 202 perform so much worse when lay horizontally compared to stood vertically, the GPU fan is in close proximity to the (solid) floor so they pull in less air resulting in higher GPU temps. This is not just from build up of heat (although that is a secondary cause), but in the first instance it is due to less efficient fan performance, almost as if they are running at a lower RPM.
You may already of known this, but I thought it was worth mentioning, direct intake vents are your friend!
