Stalled Compact 24L water cooling oriented ATX case

[Boil]

On another note, there's something else I have been working on. Some discussions recently with w360, plus exploring the idea of making a case that specifically supports the EK Phoenix has led me to a new design. It's primarily for ITX boards (though mATX is possible with some restrictions), so it won't satisfy ATX people. It's also not super-small, at around 21L, so the small-at-all-costs crowd won't be interested, either. But I think for the sort of person that's looking for a small footprint case (it's a vertical, rotated motherboard design), with good cooling performance and enough room for activities, it could offer a compelling package. I don't really want to derail this thread, but for those interested, here's a WIP preview.

@Necere

I LOVE the fact that someone is looking to design a chassis around the 280 EK Phoenix...!

I feel that the 280 Phoenix should be enough cooling for an i7-8700K & GTX 1080 Ti (or maybe an i7-9700K & GTX 2080 Ti)...

Just remember to take into account the bulk provided by the tubing & three QDCs...!

But there is a good chunk of open space in the linked image, between the motherboard & the PSU, and I am concerned with the placement of the GPU blocking a good bit of airflow for the AIO...

I would go for the back to back (Dan A4-SFX, CustomMOD SFX, Louqe Ghost S1 MkII, Sliger G, DSE Breathe) layout, and flip the PSU on its side (using that formerly empty space)...

I like the venting fans on the back, but I would rather see 25mm thick fans here...

I like that (at least it appears to be) there is space up top for the connections IN the chassis, rather than having them just poking out the top (like the Breathe chassis)...

But I would recommend flipping it all; still a back to back design, but with the motherboard down low & the PSU up high; this would put all the cables (excepting the PSU main power) coming out of the bottom back of the chassis...

You could also inset the PSU (assuming SFX) & run the main power connection down & out the bottom with all the rest of the cabling...

And if there would be any way to do all the above, AND get the total package under 20 liters, then it could still be SFF...!!!

 

[Boil]

@Necere

More to say about this; again, I am really excited that someone is designing around the EK Phoenix AIO...!

I feel as if a sub-20 liter chassis should be no problem with an I/O down oriented back-to-back layout...

As with any concept for a SFF chassis, component compatibility needs to be hammered out, and specifics nailed down...

I would see the 280 Phoenix as the perfect AIO from the MLC line-up for the layout I, well, laid out in the previous post...

I would stick to ITX motherboards only, we all can see that mATX is a form factor that is getting no love as of late...

I would also stick with a SFX PSU over the option for a SFX-L PSU; the shorter SFX unit allows for a smaller overall chassis, and gives room for the cabling / connectors without being super tight... 600 watts should be more than enough for an i7-8700K / GTX 1080 Ti build...

I (personally) could do without a window on the side panel, and with the EK Phoenix components it is not like they are going to be showing the fluid much anyway... In fact, the only component that might show fluids would be the GPU block... But with the ZMT tubing & QDCs, I would go with acetal / nickel blocks myself,,,

Virtually every modern ITX motherboard has at least one M.2 SSD slot; the ASUS Strix line provides two & the ASRock X299 provides three; so I would simplify things by having M.2 SSDs as the only supported SSDs, no 2.5" mounts at all... Less variables, lees cabling, less clutter...

For more storage than can be provided by M.2, there is always an external drive, cloud storage, or a NAS...

Max dimensions should be no more than 350mm x 150mm x 280mm (H x W x D), so a sub-15 liter chassis...!

I am gonna stop now, but this is a project I really, Really, REALLY hope sees eventual production...!!

This could make a high-end water cooling build into a simple plug & play operation...!!!

 

[Necere]

Moved discussion of the vertical concept to my random concepts thread.

 

[Phuncz]

It's funny because I've always felt the M1 was already a timeless and classy design, like the ThinkPad of SFF cases. But many people hate the look of ThinkPads too...

This. Someone calling the Ncase M1 tacky seems like trolling.

 

[Nasp]

Well I can report that... there's nothing new to report. I haven't been working on the M5. I did model the 280 version of the new EK MLC Phoenix expandable AIO (the new version of the Predator) the other day, and I was dismayed to find that it won't fit in the M5. I know that's not a total dealbreaker, since there's room for a full custom loop with standalone res/pump, but it would still be nice to have compatibility.

Someone on another forum also just called the M1's styling outdated and "tacky." That shouldn't and wouldn't bother me much, if not for the fact that I've been feeling like the styling is a little stale as well, and perhaps it's time to move away from it. The M1 is five years old now, after all. Also from a more philosophical perspective, as a designer I'm always striving for purity and honesty in design - towards something like the Platonic ideal of PC cases, if that makes sense (and as pretentious as that sounds). The chamfered front panel and angled IO cutout lend the M1 its identifiable character, but perhaps it's a bridge too far. There's a balance to be struck between identity and minimalism, and the "M-look" maybe leans too heavily to the former. Granted, it's probably worked in our favor by making the case stand out in the crowd, without being garish or ostentatious, but still my instinct is to move towards a more pure, timeless aesthetic.


On another note, there's something else I have been working on. Some discussions recently with w360, plus exploring the idea of making a case that specifically supports the EK Phoenix has led me to a new design. It's primarily for ITX boards (though mATX is possible with some restrictions), so it won't satisfy ATX people. It's also not super-small, at around 21L, so the small-at-all-costs crowd won't be interested, either. But I think for the sort of person that's looking for a small footprint case (it's a vertical, rotated motherboard design), with good cooling performance and enough room for activities, it could offer a compelling package. I don't really want to derail this thread, but for those interested, here's a WIP preview.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I should make it clear though - since I guess I've given people somewhat of a wrong impression - whatever people think about the M1 in terms of its aesthetics doesn't bother me. Everyone has different taste, and I'm perfectly okay with that. The vast majority of comments on the subject are complimentary anyway.

No, what bothers me are the issues people have with the engineering and build quality...

As a daily browser of all things SFF PC, I see a lot of people asking about the Ncase M1. If it's not about purchasing one, it's about rating their build or discussing options for coolers and different GPUs. I don't hear anything but good marks about aesthetically. Now design-wise, it' a SFF PC so there are going to be some comprises. Yes, it isn't the best for custom water cooling loops, but I did one anyway. My only critiques are that it cannot fit a larger rad and/or full-size fans when going with a windowed side panel. I had someone make a custom side panel and it's so great to look inside my build.

I think you are being way too hard on yourself and overthinking things - as usual. At the end of the day, these PC cases are just glorified boxes. Designs haven't changed a whole lot from the first custom PC cases. What has changed are the components, specifically the aesthetics of the components. Motherboard look much different now then they used to, but the overall layout and function remains much the same.

Can you create a timeless design? Probably not. Can you create a time-less aesthetic? Probably. I think the Ncase has a great look that will work well for itself in the future. Have some of the design trends passed it by recently? Perhaps. Things like RGB (blah), side-windows, better compatibility for radiators, cable management sections and guides, etc have become mainstream. However, those things are not always deemed mandatory for SFF PCs.

Necere, can you please just stick with something? You have shown us wonderful designs, but never get passed the design phase. It's becoming too much of a tease. I know you do everything with careful intent, but sometimes you have to take some risks too. I really want to back your next project, but it seems that lately I've just been disappointed at all your "updates".

If you really are dissatisfied with the Ncase M1, perhaps just focus on "re-inventing" it. Maybe add more support for the things I mentioned above? Whatever you decide to do, I know it will be great. I just the journey to get there won't be too long.

 

[Necere]

Necere, can you please just stick with something? You have shown us wonderful designs, but never get passed the design phase. It's becoming too much of a tease. I know you do everything with careful intent, but sometimes you have to take some risks too. I really want to back your next project, but it seems that lately I've just been disappointed at all your "updates".

I know it, you don't need to tell me. Usually it's hitting some kind of impasse or reconsidering some key element of the design. Like my wariness of using flex PCIe risers now. I've just seen too many different cases that used inexpensive ones have problems, and I refuse to ask people to pay $75+ for a 3M riser. Also at this point the prospect of creating future support burdens if I don't design things just right gives me some anxiety, too, which is no fun.

 

[Nasp]

I know it, you don't need to tell me. Usually it's hitting some kind of impasse or reconsidering some key element of the design. Like my wariness of using flex PCIe risers now. I've just seen too many different cases that used inexpensive ones have problems, and I refuse to ask people to pay $75+ for a 3M riser. Also at this point the prospect of creating future support burdens if I don't design things just right gives me some anxiety, too, which is no fun.

If you don't like riser cables, then this 24L ATX case fits the bill perfectly. Honestly, with all the support it has received and the lack of anything like it currently, I don't see why you don't push it to market.

 

[Chrip]

If you don't like riser cables, then this 24L ATX case fits the bill perfectly. Honestly, with all the support it has received and the lack of anything like it currently, I don't see why you don't push it to market.

I feel your frustration too. I want nothing more than this case to be out. However it needs to come out of passion from Necere or its not going to be good.

 

[dangwang]

Why not make it a tiny bit wider to fit in D15s? That's like less than an 1 inch wider and you get to use 120mm fan on the rear and a much better CPU cooler support.

 

[Soul_Est]

I know it, you don't need to tell me. Usually it's hitting some kind of impasse or reconsidering some key element of the design. Like my wariness of using flex PCIe risers now. I've just seen too many different cases that used inexpensive ones have problems, and I refuse to ask people to pay $75+ for a 3M riser. Also at this point the prospect of creating future support burdens if I don't design things just right gives me some anxiety, too, which is no fun.

Have you considered partnering with HDPLEX for silicon risers like @Josh | NFC did?

 

[Necere]

Why not make it a tiny bit wider to fit in D15s? That's like less than an 1 inch wider and you get to use 120mm fan on the rear and a much better CPU cooler support.

Interesting you should mention it - just in the last little bit I've been working on an mATX/ATX design again, and one of the changes I made was to make it just wide enough for 160mm tall coolers like the D15S. In fact I specifically looked that one up to double-check the dimensions. An inch isn't a trivial difference when you're talking about SFF (or near-SFF) cases, of course, but at least in this particular instance it's something I'm considering.

I should say that the design I'm working on now isn't the M5 design from the top of the thread, and I've actually gone back to a more conventional, non-reverse ATX layout, with styling from one of my earlier mATX concept designs (the red case). One of the reasons for this change is that a full-glass side panel window doesn't integrate well with the design of the M5 exterior panels, and I know that feature is a significant selling point for a lot of people. Admittedly it's very close to the new NZXT H200i/H400i, but whatcha gonna do? I've always liked it for its engineering and design simplicity, and also its scalability to different sizes.

Have you considered partnering with HDPLEX for silicon risers like @Josh | NFC did?

Yeah, this is the one w360 is looking at using. I haven't seen much reliability data one way or another, but at least the manufacturing method seems less prone to problems than other cheap risers.

 

[Philairflow]

Are there any pictures of your current version? So you design it with ATX mainboard now?

 

[Necere]

Are there any pictures of your current version? So you design it with ATX mainboard now?

I've decided to scale back on posting pics of early concepts so I don't give people the wrong idea. I got some negative feedback not too long ago from someone who believed I was engaging in some kind of self-promotion with these threads. Also would rather avoid seeming like vaporware with so many ideas, none of which have come close to realization at this point.

To answer the second part, it's chiefly an mATX motherboard case with only four slots, but it can accommodate an ATX motherboard as well (but still with only four slots available). It's otherwise a traditional layuout, so the PSU eats up what space there could be for more slots.

 

[Phuncz]

Sad to hear someone influenced you to stop releasing the concepts that obviously many people here liked. But on another aspect I can understand regularly posting designs isn't ideal for the community.

 

[Philairflow]

I've decided to scale back on posting pics of early concepts so I don't give people the wrong idea. I got some negative feedback not too long ago from someone who believed I was engaging in some kind of self-promotion with these threads. Also would rather avoid seeming like vaporware with so many ideas, none of which have come close to realization at this point.

To answer the second part, it's chiefly an mATX motherboard case with only four slots, but it can accommodate an ATX motherboard as well (but still with only four slots available). It's otherwise a traditional layuout, so the PSU eats up what space there could be for more slots.

I am not registered here yet that long. But i was reading the threads in this forum for a while and I can tell you one thing:
The reason why I Iike this forum so much now, especially the custom cases section, is because people share their ideas without restraint.
This forum inspired me to share some ideas myself (not posted yet), so from my position this is a little bit sad to hear. This section seams very active and full of creative people. So I would appreciate it if you go on posting your stuff

 

[loader963]

Sad to hear someone influenced you to stop releasing the concepts that obviously many people here liked. But on another aspect I can understand regularly posting designs isn't ideal for the community.

I respectfully disagree. Long as you aren’t trying to sell them, I like people posting various ideas and concepts. Even if they are abandoned, they may inspire others or get insights from another perspective to encourage them

I tried building my own custom case and failed miserably, so I’ve bought one ( and soon to be 2) that I never would have gotten if not for this website. But I mainly come here to see what the sff community is working on. I love seeing all these ideas, and even happier when one comes to market successfully.

 

[Philairflow]

I respectfully disagree. Long as you aren’t trying to sell them, I like people posting various ideas and concepts. Even if they are abandoned, they may inspire others or get insights from another perspective to encourage them

I tried building my own custom case and failed miserably, so I’ve bought one ( and soon to be 2) that I never would have gotten if not for this website. But I mainly come here to see what the sff community is working on. I love seeing all these ideas, and even happier when one comes to market successfully.

I fully agree. Seeing all these ideas also inspires peolple working on their own stuff. Their is no need in holding something back because of some people complaining.

 

[CircleTect]

I've decided to scale back on posting pics of early concepts so I don't give people the wrong idea.

Sad to hear Necere, as you and your concepts are an inspiration around here. I think it's totally ok to float ideas without a promise of final delivery - that's what the creative process is all about (and as long as they're marked as such - concepts). The only reason I can see why people would be upset is because they can't own them all!

 

[Biowarejak]

Sad to hear Necere, as you and your concepts are an inspiration around here. I think it's totally ok to float ideas without a promise of final delivery - that's what the creative process is all about (and as long as they're marked as such - concepts). The only reason I can see why people would be upset is because they can't own them all!

I agree. I would love to see a concept gallery just to get inspiration from

 

[prateekprakash]

I just read through the entire thread today, and would like to present my situation: I own an M1 v5, and it is a beauty!

Currently i have the following hardware in it:
msi b250i
i7 6700 w/c using ek waterblock
zotac gtx 1060 mini w/c using ek vga supremacy
240 rad from a swiftech h220
ek d5 pump without reservoir
1x 3.5" HDD 8TB
1x 2.5" HDD 15mm 5TB
Enermax Revo SFX 650
Toshiba m.2 512GB

(My build log, just in case: https://500px.com/iamprateekprakash/galleries/ncase-m1-v5-0-build-log)

2 things I would love to expand the case (in addition to the above hardware) would be:
4x 3.5" HDD support instead of my current setup of 2 different sized HDDs (I am thinking 4x 12TB Seagates).
changing the pump volute to an EK XRES 100 REVO D5.

The rest of the hardware would be same. @Necere Is this possible in the dimensions of the proposed M5? (I really wish it is, because I would hate to go for another conventional larger case just to fit the hard drives and reservoir...)