Bitcoin and other Crypto Currency discussion thread

robbee

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The bitcoin bubble might burst at some point (or suffer heavy correction), but the crypto hype is here to stay. People are always looking for easy profit investments. As one coin collapses, 3 others will rise to take its place...

Mod-edit: broke the discussion off to a seperate topic, when it started to move from expensive GPUs at the end of 2017 and start odf 2018 to crypto mining.
 
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Phuncz

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Yes but at some point people will realise the value of most crypto currency is about zero because it's just a front for shorting and it will implode on itself. At this point many of my friends that have little interest in computers or crypto currency are investing in them, making me glad I don't have FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) and I am not paying the inside traders' yachts.

This is turning into a crypto currency chat topic, sorry about that.
 
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warfreak131

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Jun 30, 2017
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It appears I've caused quite a stir, and this thread has taken a strange route. When I checked prices for the GTX 1060, I was seeing prices between $300 and $400. Granted they were all sold out, presumably because that was such a good price...
 

robbee

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It seems to be the case with not only the 1060. I've bought the MSI 1070 ITX last week for €430 and prices are up to at least €515 now for shops that have stock...
 

alamilla

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Feb 11, 2016
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It is such a depressing time for building a new PC.
Part of me feels like buying a Hades Canyon NUC and being done with it!
 
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Runamok81

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Jul 27, 2015
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ArsTechnica - Here’s why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy



And the price of Ethereum over the same period.


If this continues, we'll all have to start hedging our PC build against investments in crypto. There was a nice crypto flash crash a few days ago, so maybe this will help prices.
 
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lhl

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Nov 16, 2015
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Sadly, it's going to take more than the recent price dips to help GPU prices - last time things didn't calm down until profits dropped by another 50% or so (you can check out Whattomine to see how much each card makes in profit mining different coins) - this could be a combination of price action or difficulty growth, but I suspect that since none of the manufacturers want to be holding the bag on excess inventory, we're just going to have to wait for next-gen chips or use APUs to get reasonably priced graphics.

A couple notes - if you *are* getting a GPU, you can mine in the background when you're not using it to offset the costs. It depends on how expensive your power is, but might make a lot of sense. I bought a GTX 1080Ti before the latest price runup and it should pay for itself in a couple more months doing that, which is actually pretty neat (at least in the winter when it's offsetting my heating bill anyway).

Oh, generally, people aren't very good at math on this whole mining thing - historically, it's been rare for GPU mining to crypto-ROI, and that's still the case today (when there are periods of really short dollar-ROIs it's because cryptos are also going up in price and you'd almost always be better buying the crypto directly if that's what you wanted to do). Also, in a year or so (maybe less time), Ethereum will be switching fully over to proof of stake, which will crash the price of mining and will probably mean a glut of cheap used cards...

Cryptocurrencies (blockchains, distributed ledger technologies) are actually super interesting, but we're in silly season / the start of a big bubble right now. It might not burst for a while though, although there's enough scammage going on that, well, who knows.
 

jØrd

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It does occur to me to ask if anyone knows how environmentally damaging production of fiat currency is. I mean mining and smelting of metals for coins, logging of trees, harvesting of cotton, etc for notes, the inks and varnishes used probably aren't very environmentally friendly either + the cost of running the machinery needed, etc. We have plastic notes here so add in some petrochemicals to the mix too. Weather its comparable to the costs of crypto mining i have no idea but i wouldn't be surprised if its essentially as bad if not worse especially once you start dealing w/ things like the transport of currency (secure vehicles, etc) storage (vaults, banks to run, etc), destruction, verification, etc, etc, etc. I guess you could also toss in the storage of refined gold & silver bullion too and all the environmental damage that goes into gauging that out of the earth & processing it....thinking about it cypto mining might not actually be all that bad by comparison after all.
 
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GuilleAcoustic

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It is not good for the environment, but most human beings do stuff that are environmentally bad on a hourly basis and don't give a damn f**k. Crypto currency is the just one of the many ways we use to do that.

Welcome to the consumer society, where wasting is the norm!
 

zanduh

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Jan 15, 2018
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It is not good for the environment, but most human beings do stuff that are environmentally bad on a hourly basis and don't give a damn f**k. Crypto currency is the just one of the many ways we use to do that.

Welcome to the consumer society, where wasting is the norm!

The key point is that it’s not that it’s not good for the environment but that it is growing at a tangible rate. We can’t treat the earth as a lost cause of “if people litter I’m not going to bother caring about an oil spill”
 

GuilleAcoustic

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I am someone who care about environment and everything I buy is thought toward that (consumption, where is it built, etc).

Crypto currency is indeed worrying, but sadly people acts are very irresponsible environmentally wise. We must change our habits right at the core.

I do think that sadly it is a lost cause, but I'll keep sorting my wastes, I'll keep being careful about how much energy my house use, I'll continue to repair or repurpose what is repairable/reusable instead of throwing it. And more importantly, I'll continue to raise my kids with those values.

... And I've been working in the financial industry for over 10 years. You do not need cryptocurrencies to waste energy (workstations turned on 24/7, offices light never turned off even at night or during the weekend, etc)
 
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BaK

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I do think that sadly it is a lost cause, but I'll keep sorting my wastes, I'll keep being careful about how much energy my house use, I'll continue to repair or repurpose what is repairable/reusable instead of throwing it. And more importantly, I'll continue to raise my kids with those values.
Same here, except I don't think it's lost already. Time and knowledge/education will maybe save us.

And with crypto mining, as @zanduh said, it's the growth rate which is frightening. Especially when electricity used for it comes from countries where its made from polluting sources such as coal...
 

Phuncz

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Life as we know it used to be survival of the fittest, but we've managed to eliminate that for most of the world.
 
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EdZ

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May 11, 2015
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Diminishing returns will limit the power growth rate of Bitcoin: as more efficient ASICs are developed it forces older ASICs out of action simply because they can no longer compete vs. power costs (same reason GPUs can no longer mine Bitcoin, they cost more in power than they earn in mining rewards and transaction fees because they're so inefficient). As low-hanging-fruit efficiency gains diminish (and Bitmain are already buying up piles of TSMC 16nm wafers, so just process scaling is already as dried up as for GPU and CPU design) efficiency increases will need to exceed the floor of price-per-kW, so you may end up with setups like with some datacentres where excess head is harnessed for other purposes (e.g. ducted for local HVAC).

Remember, energy spent mining is not 'wasted', it's spent ensuring the blockchain remains secure. Energy spent by datacentres operating EMV/SWIFT/etc is not 'wasted' either.
 
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Kmpkt

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Life as we know it used to be survival of the fittest, but we've managed to eliminate that for most of the world.

I have this conspiracy theory that big data and social media is actually just the New World Order/Illuminati/Bilderbergers etc. inventorying and ranking every last human in terms of utility to the ongoing survival of the species/planet with a view towards culling the herd.
 
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