Log SMALLEST ATX CASE : CERBERUS-X (Complete build log)

MarcParis

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The look on the reviewer's face says it all! I am not happy with this narrow perch, I preferred the old one that I could happily sit on...
M. Le PC Somelier, bring me a better resting place, NOW!
 

MarcParis

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Cerberus-X Build Log 2022#1 : SSDs upgrades (06th November 2022)
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As you might know, following my move to excellent SFFTIME N-ATX v2 for living room case, I've decided to communalize my two PC setups with following features :
  • ATX motherboards only
  • M.2 NVME SSDs only
  • Vertical GPU stands only
Following those guidelines I've decided to remove my pcie combo Sata & Nvme SSDs extension card :


I've moved my Samsung m.2 Sata 860 EVO (2TB) to an external case and my Samsung m.2 NVME 950 Pro 512Go on the motherboard m.2 slot (slot connected through Chipset) directly.

At last, in order to fully fill my motherboard m.2 slots and enjoy last gen 4 SDDs I've added one WD SN850X 2TB in the m.2 slots directly interfaced to the CPU.



Synthetic performance of this SN850X is great!


What I liked the most? Actually the reached speed to transfer steam library from ADATA SX8200 pro towards WD SN850X...that's where NVME SDDs are shining the most..:)
 

MarcParis

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Cerberus-X Build Log 2022#2 : Fitting RTX4080 FE (27th November 2022)
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Before putting my RTX 4080 FE inside Cerberus-X I've fully tested inside N-ATXv2:
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...n-atx-v2-complete-build-log.17997/post-271132

Fitting RTX 4080 FE was not very difficult, even with included 12VHPWR 16 Pins to 3x8 Pins adapter cable, as layout was hopefully compatible.

However for Cerberus-X, it was more difficult, only due to this cable adapter.
Otherwise the RTX 4080 FE is simpler to put in place vs the RTX 3090 FE. Indeed the RTX 4080 FE is shorter (304mm vs 313mm) so it is really straight forward (no need to angle it like RTX 3090 FE)

RTX 4080 FE


RTX 3090 FE


However the RTX 3090 FE has an angle power connector vs a vertical one on the RTX 4080 FE...clearly a downgrade!

Outside the poor cable management, the adapter cable is clearly too high!


I was able to bend it, as gently as possible, with side panel...really not ideal (be careful on that step as you can break GPU connector)


I was clearly not satisfied at all by this solution. Ok it was working, but it is not a long term solution.
Thus I decided to search for PCIe 5.0 extension compatible with my Corsair SF750 (type 4 plugs) and found this Corsair CP-8920284!
Hopefully I found it available in France, as it is difficult to find it in stock anywhere.

Here is a comparison side by side, the difference is obvious! On top this adapter is compatible with 600W!



Will it fit easily in Cerberus-X? Answer is yes, with really cable management :

You still need to push/flatten the final connector on GPU, but way less than the included adapter.


As now the RTX 4080 FE sits comfortably in my Cerberus-X, you can easily guess what will be the topic of next build log..:D
 

MarcParis

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Cerberus-X Build Log 2022#3 : Overclocking RTX 4080 FE (4th December 2022)
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While using my RTX 3090 FE, as there was some coil whine, GDRR6X max temperature issues, I was mainly focused to undervolt it to reach the same performance than at stock with massive reduction of symptoms.
However, with RTX 4080 FE, it is totally the contrary. While at stock settings, I'm experiencing absolutely no troubles (No coil whine, no GDDR6X limit temperature, no fan noise). Based on my pretty long GPU experience, this is my best experience ever!

As suggested by rumors, Nvidia was expecting way more power hungry Ada Lovelace (RTX 4000 series) chips. In the end, it was not the case (except maybe RTX 4090, maybe)...thus RTX 4090/80 GPU coolers & power delivery systems were sized accordingly, leading to some kind of oversizing (great temperature, no coil whine).

This is easily explaining why I managed to complete this achievement on 3DMark : RTX 4080 FE, at the stock settings, was able to finish a DirectX 12 benchmark without exceding 55°C!!! This is a normal result for GPU water-cooling, not air-cooling! Cherry on the top is the absence of Coil Whine..;) (watercooling is not helping on this issue)


As you have guessed, with my RTX 4080 FE, I was mostly focused on overclocking it as its card design is clearly allowing it!

After some (many, should I say..:D) trials, I found 3DMark Port Royal (Ray Tracing - Benchmark) to be the best tool to define maximum & polyvalent overclocking setup.
Here are the values I managed to reach (fully stable) :


PS : it is important to note that RTX 4080 FE boost is fluctuating significantly based on allocated vCore and/or Power limit. Thus overclocking properly an RTX 4080 is requiring a lot of trials/errors to understand its behavior.

Here is a summary of actual performance in 3DMark benchmarks (synthetic).
Depending on the type of 3D workload, the overclocking is leading to 4%-8% approx.



I wanted to illustrate in a better way overclocking performance. Thus I've recorded a video in Cyberpunk 2077, within the Afterlife, while applying & resetting the RTX 4080 FE overclocking parameters. Thus you can easily check for all parameters variation, in live!

Here is a summary of overclocking in Cyberpunk 2077 :


Overall I'm assuming my overclocking parameters is adding approximately 8% for the games I'm playing the most (involving definitely ray tracing). Not so bad, especially as this is a free overclock with no real impact on temperature or noise!


Last comment regarding DLSS3. Currently I've only "A plague Tale : Requiem" that is compatible with it (Cyberpunk 2077 with DLSS3 is still in beta as of today's date). Benefit was significant (+28%) but not as magical as it claimed to be. This technology has a lot of potential but will require more refinement like DLSS 1 vs 2.
Here is a portion of the video where I'm testing DLSS3.


Overall, gaming experience with the RTX 4080 FE is significantly improved vs the RTX 3090 FE, especially with Ray Tracing enabled. Below you will see another example of Cyberpunk 2077 gameplay, but it is also applicable on other games like Metro Exodus - enhanced version (Ray Tracing only).
 

MarcParis

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Obviously, here are videos from "Next Gen" The Witcher 3 with DLSS3 & Ray tracing in Novigrad (Day & Night) :

 
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artbywaqas

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@MarcParis I'm actually thinking of building a new computer with an RTX 4090 in the Cerberus-X.

I already have a computer I built in a Cerberus case which I'm very happy with.

From what I understand this case is the same and just a little taller allowing an ATX motherboard?
Will it fit a bigger 1000 W SFF Power Supply too?

Did you have any issues temperatures and cooling?
 
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MarcParis

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@MarcParis I'm actually thinking of building a new computer with an RTX 4090 in the Cerberus-X.

I already have a computer I built in a Cerberus case which I'm very happy with.

From what I understand this case is the same and just a little taller allowing an ATX motherboard?
Will it fit a bigger 1000 W SFF Power Supply too?

Did you have any issues temperatures and cooling?
In fact with ATX motherboard, generally (almost 100%), pcie 16x slot is second one (vs first on mini itx and most micro atx mb). Thus you can fit a sfx-l in front location without any issue, even with RTX FE passthrough gpu (I did it with RTX 3090 FE and my SX 850 lti in my Cerberus-X)
Thus you could fit RTX 4090 FE with front sfx-l 1000w ( and even upcoming 1200w) with ATX mb/Cerberus-X..:)

No issue of gpu cooling at all, just make sure you have dual intake 120mm fan at bottom and side exhaust 120/140 mm (this is the most important fan in fact..:))

Please keep me posted!
 
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artbywaqas

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@MarcParis Good to know.

Here's what I'm looking at getting at the moment:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Artbywaqas/saved/#view=zpdbjX

 

MarcParis

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@MarcParis Good to know.

Here's what I'm looking at getting at the moment:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Artbywaqas/saved/#view=zpdbjX

Based on your components list, here are my remarks :
  • Only RTX 4090 FE fits in Cerberus-X (approx 310mm length maximum in real conditions), based on my search. Your choice "MSI GAMING TRIO GeForce RTX 4090" is too long for Cerberus-X (337mm length)
  • Switch from U9S to C14S as CPU cooler. In terms of CPU cooling or even GPU exhaust airflow, side exhaust is really important. For general purpose, C14S is best CPU cooler for Cerberus family
  • Switch from 12900KS (if possible) to 13700K, way better ratio performance/power consumption (heat). KS cpu are meant for showroom/demonstration, and only beefy watercooling could really handle it. Depending of your rendering type (more GPU or CPU), you need to prioritize only one in aircooling. If you want both, you need to focus on custom full watercooling (not ideal as you are planning to transport your workstation).
  • PSU choice : Make sure to have a mod DIY kit to have/convert your PSU to "native" 12vhpwr compatibility. As native SFX PSU with ATX 3.0 that should fit your needs you have :

Example of my Cerberus-X with RTX 3090 FE and SFX-L PSU (SX800 LTI) :
https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...erberus-x-complete-build-log.2007/post-241003


 
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artbywaqas

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@MarcParis


Do you mean i7 13700K?

I only see 13900K listed for i9 cpus



I didn't understand. What is the difference between SFX PSU nd SFX-L . All the 1000W ones I'm seeing are SFX-L

Is the side fan you are referring to the one that came with the C14S CPU cooler?


hmm looks like I'll need to find a different power cable for the GPU like you did too
 

MarcParis

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@MarcParis


Do you mean i7 13700K?

I only see 13900K listed for i9 cpus
Yes I was referring to i7 13700k. You could go to i9 13900k too…just avoid KS..:)
Choose the best power efficient cpu compared to your actual workload..:)

@MarcParis

I didn't understand. What is the difference between SFX PSU nd SFX-L . All the 1000W ones I'm seeing are SFX-L
SFX-L psu are deeper than SFX, 125mm vs 100mm
For RTX 4090 FE, Corsair sf750 is enough.


@MarcParis

Is the side fan you are referring to the one that came with the C14S CPU cooler?
Yes. You will place it as exhaust.

@MarcParis
hmm looks like I'll need to find a different power cable for the GPU like you did too
Definitely required.
 

artbywaqas

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@MarcParis Did you have to under volt your CPU to avoid over heating? Or was this not an issue when using the C14S cooler?

With my older/current computer https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...ld-cerberus-3d-workstation.11001/#post-159011

I had to under volt the CPU to fix this



BTW I went ahead and ordered all the parts ( except for the graphics card which is currently out of stock where I plan to get it from). I did make some changes based on your advice..
 
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MarcParis

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@MarcParis Did you have to under volt your CPU to avoid over heating? Or was this not an issue when using the C14S cooler?

With my older/current computer https://smallformfactor.net/forum/t...ld-cerberus-3d-workstation.11001/#post-159011

I had to under volt the CPU to fix this



BTW I went ahead and ordered all the parts ( except for the graphics card which is currently out of stock where I plan to get it from). I did make some changes based on your advice..
In fact I’ve overclocked all my cpu with my c14s. Roughly c14s is able to handle cpu with 170w heat load, like my i5 12600k overclocked at 5ghz.

Edit : that means you can cool i7 13700k or i9 13900k at stock speed with little / tiny room to overclocking with a c14s inside Cerberus-x
Edit 2 : be sure to disable/tweak all hidden overclocking setup in MB bios, generally applied by default (like MCE for Asus). This is a well known issue on MB for Intel cpu.
 
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