An eGPU dock that's actually SFF (name TBD)

jeshikat

Jessica. Wayward SFF.n Founder
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In this thread and this thread we've collectively been lamenting how stupidly big all the eGPU docks are that have been announced so far.

I've gotten fed up with it and have offered to do the CAD work for free to design a eGPU dock that's actually sized appropriately for housing just a video card, TB3 adapter board, and power supply. @Runamok81 has graciously offered to purchase a AKiTiO Node for me to measure and get this project started.

I have absolutely no use for one of these eGPU docks myself so please leave any and all feedback in this thread for what you want to see in such a design!

But just don't expect me to implement everything suggested, design by committee is the death of great ideas and a good designer has to know when to say "no" :)
 

Sean Crees

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Jan 1, 2017
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You know, i've always had this idea in my head where you have 2 matching chassis. One fits just a mini itx motherboard, no expansion slots. The other fits just a full height double width graphics card. Then you could sit them next to each other, or stack them, and connect them with a thunderbolt cable.

Then for people who don't want dedicated graphics, they just get the motherboard case. People who already have a case and just want the graphics card case could get that, but people who want both could have that too.

I'm probably explaining it wrong, and i'm sure this is outside the scope your imagining with this thread. I hadn't thought of this in years and this thread reminded me, and i just felt compelled to mention it. :)
 

jeshikat

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I'm probably explaining it wrong, and i'm sure this is outside the scope your imagining with this thread.

Oh no that kind of feedback is what I'm looking for because it's muuuuch easier to take stuff like that into account at the early design stage rather than try to retrofit it later. I actually suggested just that in the thread that started this:

And if @ilovelampshade's custom board is done in the nearish future then maybe we could use that and have a 19V output on the dock to power a NUC/Mini-STX so you could have a Mini PC + eGPU stack with only one power cord.
 

BirdofPrey

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Sep 3, 2015
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Neat, I was thinking it'd be fun to livestream the CAD process of a case design so this would be a good project.

I was leaning toward internal PSU. I was thinking either the upcoming HDPLEX 300W AC-DC or FlexATX. With the latter @iFreilicht may be interested in collaborating to finally get a production run going for that FSP.

And if @ilovelampshade's custom board is done in the nearish future then maybe we could use that and have a 19V output on the dock to power a NUC/Mini-STX so you could have a Mini PC + eGPU stack with only one power cord.

But if you're paying it's whatever you want :p
An internal PSU would be much better in my opinion, though that's at least partially because they are better at handling higher wattages and power spikes. I do like the idea of being able to use it as the power brick for a computer, though I still don't see the point of connecting a GPU dock to a NUC or Mini-STX rather than just getting a gaming mini-PC or a small ITX case. What docks are great for is turning any old laptop into a gaming laptop when you are home at your desk, but for that it would also be useful to have an integrated USB hub and sound output off the thunderbolt as well (granted, there might not be a circuit board that allows for that that also includes a PCIe slot)
 

jeshikat

Jessica. Wayward SFF.n Founder
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I can swing the $200-$300 to seed the project. Sounds like we wait on the AkiTiO Node to get shipped to me and I forward it to you. Estimate a week to me. Will you need the Gigabyte GTX 1070 and HDPlex 160W AC-DC, or should I use them in other builds? Right now, they just collect dust.

No hurry, I'll be slammed this week and early next week writing up CES coverage. Let me know when you get the dock and I'll PM you my shipping address.

I have a HDPLEX 160W already. For GPU testing I have an EVGA GTX 1060 SC mini, Gigabyte GTX 1050 Ti Mini, MSI R9 280X (too power hungry though until I get a 300W HDPLEX), and I have access to several full-size cards at work (980 Ti, 1070, etc.) I can borrow.

That Gigabyte 1070 mini is the ideal card for this though so if it's just sitting around I can borrow it to test but not a big deal either way.

I do like the idea of being able to use it as the power brick for a computer, though I still don't see the point of connecting a GPU dock to a NUC or Mini-STX rather than just getting a gaming mini-PC or a small ITX case.

@Tek Everything actually has that use case. He has (had?) a Skull Canyon NUC and would take it back and forth from home to work since he could just stick it in his bag or pocket since he kept AC adapters at both locations.

but for that it would also be useful to have an integrated USB hub and sound output off the thunderbolt as well (granted, there might not be a circuit board that allows for that that also includes a PCIe slot)

Yeah, for now we'll stick to the AkiTiO as a base since it is basically the reference design and doesn't have weird proprietary connectors. So no USB/audio/etc. like the docks from the ASUS, Razer, and the like.
 

Runamok81

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Here is list of all the full size eGPU solutions currently available.



For size, here is the - now cancelled - Wolfe project Mini eGPU.



As a working Mini eGPU example here is @BenjaminLSR's modified AkiTio Thunder3 box.



The chassis above is nice, but it uses an external power brick.
 
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Runamok81

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though I still don't see the point of connecting a GPU dock to a NUC or Mini-STX rather than just getting a gaming mini-PC or a small ITX case. What docks are great for is turning any old laptop into a gaming laptop when you are home at your desk..

I don't disagree. It's more likely that people will have a TB3 enabled laptop than they will have TB3 enabled SFF PC. Hopefully, the final design is amenable to BOTH use cases.

What size cards do we want to support? Up to something like the new Zotac GTX 1080 Mini?

That is a VERY nice card. A marvel. As far a dimensions, how much would the size increase to support the card? I'm interested in having something that appeals to MOST folks. But if it's going to be a small run, then maybe we go premium and support the most interesting Mini card out there? I could go either way.
 
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jeshikat

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For that Zotac 1080 I'd say it'd need to be about 220mm long (excluding the retention flange) to be safe.
 

jeshikat

Jessica. Wayward SFF.n Founder
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I'll wait for feedback, we have plenty of time before dimensions will have to be locked down. Supporting full-length GPUs would be neat for bragging rights since it'd still be smaller than any of the other docks but a SFF community dock should probably only support SFF video cards to encourage manufacturers to make more short cards.
 
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PNP

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I think an important aspect to consider is portability.

Not in the size sense, but in the sense that even in a padded case, an eGPU will get jostled around and that means the GPU inside it will be putting considerable strain on the PCIe slot and itself.

I'm not a fan of the reinforced PCIe slots so many motherboard manufacturers are putting out, but I think a flexible solution designed to flex a little would be ideal. As for the GPU itself, perhaps some adjustable brackets to keep it in place.

It doesn't have to be 810G certified or anything, but I would like something approaching the durability of the workstation it could potentially be attached to.
 

Sean Crees

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Jan 1, 2017
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No smaller than 8". I think 10" would be plenty. You can usually find at least 1 version of most GPU's that's 10 inches or less in length. You do have to draw a line somewhere though, there are some pretty ludicrously large GPU's out there. Like triple slot, extra tall, 13 in long behemoths.
 

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
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There are a lot of current generation cards right at the 10.5" threshold. These include Founder's Edition 1070 and 1080, the bulk of EVGA's line, the MSI blower models (10.6") and probably a few others. There's a lot of longer cards, but nothing between 10.5" and Zotac's 1070/1080 minis. I think if you're going to do this as a potentially production run case then it should be 10.5" or longer. That being said if this is meant to be a one-off then I would totally design around the Zotac 1080's dimensions and plan for that the be the card for this enclosure since this is SFF network after all.

One cool idea (IMO) would be to tool the case for a longer card (30cm or thereabouts) or an ITX card + 120mm radiator and associated water cooling equipment.
 

Ceros_X

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I think an important aspect to consider is portability.

Not in the size sense, but in the sense that even in a padded case, an eGPU will get jostled around and that means the GPU inside it will be putting considerable strain on the PCIe slot and itself.

I'm not a fan of the reinforced PCIe slots so many motherboard manufacturers are putting out, but I think a flexible solution designed to flex a little would be ideal. As for the GPU itself, perhaps some adjustable brackets to keep it in place.

It doesn't have to be 810G certified or anything, but I would like something approaching the durability of the workstation it could potentially be attached to.

While I don't disagree with the idea, isn't the point of a dock to be able to leave your GPU at home and then break off the laptop/SFF part and take it with you?


I personally don't have a use case for this, however I was wondering, perhaps you could make the end of the enclosure modular? Make the end (furthest from the GPU ports) modular - a tool free end cap that fits flush but you could switch it out for a longer one to support larger cards. Maybe ITX length and regular length, or regular length and oversized.

Here are some crappy MSPaint drawings illustrating the idea:





Name just for shits and giggles, Mini-External GPU.
 
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PNP

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While I don't disagree with the idea, isn't the point of a dock to be able to leave your GPU at home and then break off the laptop/SFF part and take it with you?

This can be problematic when "home" changes every few days and you don't want to lug around both the eGPU enclosure and the box your GPU came in. Some may opt for a dGPU equipped machine at that point, but to me a dGPU in a laptop is a hot, loud, battery capacity degrader that you have to plug in to use anyways.

Mini-External GPU.

Or micro as in mATX? But lower case 'm' in front of GPU has usually meant "multi"...oh lord, can you imagine trying to SLI/CrossFire eGPUs?