Stalled Winter One -- 15.6L SFF case, 3090 Support, 3-slot GPUs, dual 280mm radiators, CFD Optimized Design

[Ilyu]

Im also team custom loop. My ideal setup would be tempered glass on gpu side and vented side panel on cpu side. Are the current CPU heights from page 1 still valid? Or is it maybe possible to fit in the barrow ddc/reservoir/cpu Block? (72mm with low profile fittings if i remember correctly) edited i was wrong its about 72mm

great work so far, really like and appreciate your efforts.

 

[dKenGuru]

DDC pump/CPU block variants are available and must fit. Compact aquanaut form other tread. But no any D5/CPU combo. And D5 better in most satiations and builds.

 

[WinterCharm]

My interest in this case is for a full custom loop with dual radiators. It's true that feeding the top radiator with warm air will leave some cooling potential on the table, but for noise, and in my opinion aesthetics, solid side panels are the only option. I'm attracted to this case because the brute force cooling potential is so high for the size that I'm confident I can get what I need from it without sacrificing much. Without the solid panels, I lose interest, but I'm only one and there are other cases.

It sounds like despite the tradeoffs, people *do* want solid side panels. I suppose we can keep them in for the truly minimalistic aesthetic. One of the nice things about having done the CFD is that I can simply include guidance in the build guide about the GPU cooler.

If you do case for two rads, who will install there air cooled card? Nonsense. It's a huge problem here, with a lot of prototypes. You want compact case, but want audience (potential buyers) who love watercooling, but do for this nothing. No place for rads bigger then 240, no place for non slim fans, no place for pump, no place for res or distroplate.
Ok, you create case for watercool in semi SFF style. Why you care about air cooling? It's like a run after two rabbits.
Side panels must be mesh lite Sidearm T1 or glass. (plexi suxx and get scratches from air)

1. The original Goal of Winter One was powerful cooling. It can be done with water OR air. The case was designed to carefully balance both
2. Space will be used for SPK (very big, custom-made heatsinks) when aircooling (space is not wasted)
3. Space will be used for radiators and fans when water-cooling.
4. Case is still SFF -- very space efficient & 15L.

Do you think your planned (semi) passive cooling kit would benefit from closed side panels? Similar like the Monsterlabo? For passive I could imagine vented panels might work better with your design but with case fans installed it could help to force the air through the fins with closed panels. If not, it seems there is no reason to go with closed panels for Winter One.

The SPK is being designed to work well with both panel types.

Im also team custom loop. My ideal setup would be tempered glass on gpu side and vented side panel on cpu side. Are the current CPU heights from page 1 still valid? Or is it maybe possible to fit in the barrow ddc/reservoir/cpu Block? (72mm with low profile fittings if i remember correctly)
great work so far, really like and appreciate your efforts.

DDC pump/CPU block variants are available and must fit. Compact aquanaut form other tread. But no any D5/CPU combo. And D5 better in most satiations and builds.

This is one of the things I will use the "extra" width for. I'm currently working on the vF the "final" iteration of Winter One, incorporating Beta Testing feedback, and some design changes around part compatibility. I'll have some more information after the weekend!

 

[Kundahli]

It sounds like despite the tradeoffs, people *do* want solid side panels. I suppose we can keep them in for the truly minimalistic aesthetic. One of the nice things about having done the CFD is that I can simply include guidance in the build guide about the GPU cooler.

I am firmly in the solid side panel camp for a water-cooled system. The solid panels are not only minimalistic, but they also help reduce noise (which is another one of the, often under-appreciated, benefits of water cooling). By offering solid panels this case has the potential to be one of the quietest, well cooled ITX offerings on the market.

 

[dKenGuru]

The original Goal of Winter One was powerful cooling. It can be done with water OR air. The case was designed to carefully balance both

Real a little bit different.
If you build with hi-end pc components, you can't air cool in SFF. Only if it is not a open stand. Just because. AMD PBO, Nvidia 3080/3090 and incoming new amd navi.
If you build not hi-end pc gear, you will not need in cases like this. Just buy any more compact SFF case for air cooling.

Space will be used for SPK (very big, custom-made heatsinks) when aircooling (space is not wasted)

In any way it can't cool top CPU with 3080/3090. Never. Heatout 600-700 TPD unreal in this size. Monsterlabo can't in more size.

As I say before, you much choose - or you do case for air or water. If water, don't do with any compromises. SFF market don't have case for double 240/280 rads configuration with D5 pump and space for comfort place any res.

D5 less noise then DDC.

 

[DrHudacris]

Real a little bit different.
If you build with hi-end pc components, you can't air cool in SFF. Only if it is not a open stand. Just because. AMD PBO, Nvidia 3080/3090 and incoming new amd navi.
If you build not hi-end pc gear, you will not need in cases like this. Just buy any more compact SFF case for air cooling.


In any way it can't cool top CPU with 3080/3090. Never. Heatout 600-700 TPD unreal in this size. Monsterlabo can't in more size.

As I say before, you much choose - or you do case for air or water. If water, don't do with any compromises. SFF market don't have case for double 240/280 rads configuration with D5 pump and space for comfort place any res.

D5 less noise then DDC.

I think you want the dice case flow

 

[dKenGuru]

Yes, I'm wait second batch or revision.
But there same problem. Creator want save extensibility instead of one size and CNC full case.
By public poll in theard - 77% want case only because it dual rads. And only 32% want option change size of case.

Market want, but creators afraid do case for water only in sff.

 

[gelbetron]

If you build with hi-end pc components, you can't air cool in SFF

False. Yeah, youre not gonna cool them with a 30mm tall l9i. But there are plenty of air cooled 39XX and 2080ti (soon to be 3080/3090) out there

In any way it can't cool top CPU with 3080/3090. Never. Heatout 600-700 TPD unreal in this size. Monsterlabo can't in more size.

Monsterlabo has some serious design issues, and really isn't comparable to two independent heatsinks. THE SPK heatsinks are 280mm radiator size, if not bigger.

 

[Boil]

False. Yeah, youre not gonna cool them with a 30mm tall l9i. But there are plenty of air cooled 39XX and 2080ti (soon to be 3080/3090) out there

Monsterlabo has some serious design issues, and really isn't comparable to two independent heatsinks. THE SPK heatsinks are 280mm radiator size, if not bigger.

 

[WinterCharm]

@dKenGuru you're making a lot of false assumptions.

If you build with hi-end pc components, you can't air cool in SFF. Only if it is not a open stand. Just because. AMD PBO, Nvidia 3080/3090 and incoming new amd navi.

This is not true at all. The issue with air cooling in SFF cases has to do more with airflow, and heat sink limitations. Cooler on the 3080 and 3090 is perfectly capable of air-cooling those cards, if your case has adequate airflow. It's entirely possible to design even better performing coolers, given more area. (See SPK sneak peek).

In any way it can't cool top CPU with 3080/3090. Never. Heatout 600-700 TPD unreal in this size. Monsterlabo can't in more size.

Also a bad assumption. Monsterlabo is using a totally different design. Volume / Cooling Capacity / TDP is a surface level measurement that doesn't take into account a lot of other things... Heat Sink Efficiency is different when you extend in the x or y direction.

In vertical airflow Same 10cm x 10cm heat sink that is 2x taller (20cm H and 10cm L) is 60% more cooling (due to ∆T shrinking more as air travels along fins)
In vertical airflow Same 10cm x 10cm heat sink that is 2x wider (10cm H and 20cm L) is 100% more cooling.

There is a very good reason Winter One Is not a Tower-shaped case like the H1

As I say before, you much choose - or you do case for air or water. If water, don't do with any compromises. SFF market don't have case for double 240/280 rads configuration with D5 pump and space for comfort place any res. D5 less noise then DDC.

I have chosen. Winter One was designed, from the very start, to support both extreme air and water cooling. Stock Parts work fine, but the best air cooling performance will be with the SPK. SPK coming later was the reason I moved to supporting 280mm radiators + 25mm fans.

By public poll in theard - 77% want case only because it dual rads. And only 32% want option change size of case.

Poll in this thread isn't anywhere close to the survey information I have from other posts / surveys.

* 37% plan to use SPK. ⅔ with fans, and ⅓ for entirely silent build.
* 36% plan to build a custom loop.

This is with nearly 200 people responding across multiple forums. Make of it what you will.

Market want, but creators afraid do case for water only in sff.

rude and unnecessary.

 

[Dawelio]

*** MODBREAK ***

Please try to keep thread as informative and civil as possible - Trolling isn't acceptable nor welcome.​

If you do case for two rads, who will install there air cooled card? Nonsense. It's a huge problem here, with a lot of prototypes. You want compact case, but want audience (potential buyers) who love watercooling, but do for this nothing. No place for rads bigger then 240, no place for non slim fans, no place for pump, no place for res or distroplate.
Ok, you create case for watercool in semi SFF style. Why you care about air cooling? It's like a run after two rabbits.

Side panels must be mesh lite Sidearm T1 or glass. (plexi suxx and get scratches from air)

You care about air cooling, since it's the most popular cooling solution out there. Plus, it's the most cheapest one as well, due to every manufacturer uses it as default. Watercooling is a 3rd party accessory, which you need to pay a lot of extra for to even utilize it.

Side panels don't have to be mesh. One of the most popular SFF cases of all time, the Dan A4 SFX, doesn't use mesh side panels at all.

And I'm not sure if it's a typo or not, but I've never heard of a case in the world which has gotten scratches from air. Air can't scratch things, since it's just.... air. It doesn't have a physical form that can physically scratch.

Real a little bit different.
If you build with hi-end pc components, you can't air cool in SFF. Only if it is not a open stand. Just because. AMD PBO, Nvidia 3080/3090 and incoming new amd navi.
If you build not hi-end pc gear, you will not need in cases like this. Just buy any more compact SFF case for air cooling.

In any way it can't cool top CPU with 3080/3090. Never. Heatout 600-700 TPD unreal in this size. Monsterlabo can't in more size.

As I say before, you much choose - or you do case for air or water. If water, don't do with any compromises. SFF market don't have case for double 240/280 rads configuration with D5 pump and space for comfort place any res.

So you're saying that you can't use air cooled high end components in an SFF case?

My current rig, an Gigabyte 2080 (air cooled) and my 3700X are working just fine in my Dan A4 SFX. It has been fine for over 6 months.
So not entirely sure what you're talking about.

 

[Qzrx]

Let's get back to what matters: absolute overkill SFF case design.


Leak testing: successful!

 

[Dawelio]

Let's get back to what matters: absolute overkill SFF case design.


Leak testing: successful!

I’m gonna have to warn you here bud, it’s getting a bit too wet now and too much hardware porn

 

[dKenGuru]

My current rig, an Gigabyte 2080 (air cooled) and my 3700X are working just fine in my Dan A4 SFX. It has been fine for over 6 months.
So not entirely sure what you're talking about.

And you can overclock it, your temps lower then 50-60C and setup deadly silent, right?

And I'm not sure if it's a typo or not, but I've never heard of a case in the world which has gotten scratches from air. Air can't scratch things, since it's just.... air. It doesn't have a physical form that can physically scratch.

You perfect understand what I mean. Plex is very soft. And get scratches very easy. All plastic transparent side windows are sucks.

 

[Dawelio]

And you can overclock it, your temps lower then 50-60C and setup deadly silent, right?

By what you just said and if you actually believe it, then you're unfortunately very missinformed. If and when you overclock, your temps doesn't lower - they rise.

With any overclocking, your pushing your hardware to go faster and hence that creates a lot more heat and hence the temperatures rises.

The only way for temps to go down, is if you would be undervolting. Which is the direct opposite of overclocking basically, in a way.

You perfect understand what I mean. Plex is very soft. And get scratches very easy. All plastic transparent side windows are sucks.

No, you missunderstood my post. It doesn't matter if the side panel is made out of plexi, tempered glass, aluminium, steel, titanium or even 2 meters thick rock. It won't get scratched by air at all, since air is just that - air. Air can't scratch anything, since it doesn't have an physical form that can cause scratches.

 

[Luke NK]

I think he's talking obout having big tower cooling capabilities within small form factor format.

But I believe this is not achievable just going from dual 240 to dual 280. Besides there's no practical need to have components running so cool really.

 

[Dawelio]

I think he's talking obout having big tower cooling capabilities within small form factor format.

But I believe this is not achievable just going from dual 240 to dual 280. Besides there's no practical need to have components running so cool really.

Which isn't realistic, as most SFF cases can't support large tower coolers.

 

[dKenGuru]

But I believe this is not achievable just going from dual 240 to dual 280.

I can offer use google for this information. 280 a lot better then 240. More cool area.

Besides there's no practical need to have components running so cool really

More efficiency -> lower temps -> lower fan speed -> less noise.

 

[Dawelio]

I can offer use google for this information. 280 a lot better then 240. More cool area.

In theory that's true yes, but in practical terms there's not that much to be gained. There's not much difference in temperatures going from 240 to 280.
On top of that, there are also many other variables to consider regarding this, that makes it even more complex than this - Case used, fans used, which components are inside the system, are there any overclocks on the system etc etc.

 

[DrHudacris]

I can offer use google for this information. 280 a lot better then 240. More cool area.


More efficiency -> lower temps -> lower fan speed -> less noise.

By your own schema, more efficiency comes from your components. silicon lottery and undervolting buying server chips and professional graphics cards are the ways to achieve efficiency (less wasted heat for the same performance).

If you're looking for greater efficiency, you're not going to get it from a case or cooling solutions.