Prototype The world most flexible SFF case? LOUQE Ghost S1

[PaChalski]

There has already testing been done with a few air coolers, look back on the thread and you'll find it.
The 8700k runs hot and I wouldn't go any further than setting the turbo to an all core 4.7ghz with the NH-L12, hard to say really without knowing what programs you run and what loads they place on the CPU. For gaming this should be fine.
With Coffee lake 6 cores the temps go nuts when you run anything with AVX instructions, this is when you want to run an -2, -3 AVX offset if you use software that runs AVX instructions.
You'd probably have a little more headroom with an 8600k if you don't need the hyperthreads.

If you are looking for a 5ghz+ overclock with an 8700k it's going to have to be an AIO, or custom water using it in the Ghost S1.

If productivity was my main use for this, with gaming as a secondary concern. I'd more than likely be looking at Zen+ for the timeframe that the case will be delivered in.
With the 65w replacement for the Ryzen 7 1700, you'd take away all the hassle of cooling it and you could just choose the quietest cooling solution available.

More information on their latest testing will be available soon. (see end of post for link to already completed cpu air cooler tests)




Yes, absolutely.




The big downside to this cooler is it will not work in AM4, Sycthe will not make or release a mounting kit to support it.
This cooler was also designed in the DDR3 era and has a Ram height limit of 39mm which you need to pay attention to when you buy DDR4. That takes Gskill Ripjaws V straight off the table at 41mm high, this particular ram has the most potential for overclockers on Coffee Lake, Cas17 4133+ is easily achievable with it's Samsung B-die IC's which all the kits are guaranteed (currently) to have at 3600+ kit rated speeds.
Other than that I agree, the Shuriken 2 Rev B with a NF-A12x15 is a potent combination.
I just think the NH-L12 has a bit more thermal capacity for Coffee lake, I guess we'll see if the Louqe team actually test with Coffee Lake rather than the i7 7700k.
While they are thermally similar, Coffee lake can really heat up with no delid in place and all of these HTPC coolers were never designed for such use.


Here is a link to the CPU Cooler tests that have already been done! (I have requested PaChalski adds this link onto his opening post)
http://louqe.com/img/heatsinktest.pdf

Thanks for helping out answering all these questions and clarifying things @Legion!

The link to the AIR cooler test report has been added to the OP. It is the latest one we did a couple of days ago with a different method. The exact same same method and rig (L12 setup) was used during the live stream (in the end of it) with a FireStrike Extreem score over 8100p and zero noise.

http://louqe.com/img/img/ext/ext/GhostCPUheatSinkTest.pdf

 

[lauheiyeung]

Yes, lack of AM4 compatibility is a shame for Big Shuriken 2 Rev B.

And yes, with the heatpipes vertical to DIMM slots, max RAM height is 39mm. However, with the heatpipes parallel to DIMM slots, max RAM height is 42mm.

One advantage of BS2RevB vs NH-L12 in Ghost is having the fan on top of the cooler. NH-L12 will do some hot air circulation failing to take advantage of the side vents in full, while BS2RevB will not. That alone should put the BS2RevB on top...

But at the end of the day, Scythe should really update this cooler with AM4 support and beefier fin stack by even adding 4-5mm to height.


EDITED with NH-L12 name correction...

It is pretty weird as the official website of China says it supports am4, and it does not look like a typo

 

[PaChalski]

I'm very surprised that some of the heatsinks in the test received the comments that they did.

In particular, the ShadowRock LP displayed the best CPU temperature results with the lowest peak fan power (so theoretically there should be even more cooling potential), but it was one of the lower-ranked coolers in the test. By no means is it in the league of the NH-L12, but the Big Shuriken was "efficient and quiet, barely audible" compared to the SRLP which had objectively better cooling performance but was "noisy". Is 2.2dB a considerable difference in practice?

The SRLP was one of the coolers on my radar due to cost, availability, etc. but the comments from the test go against the reviews I've read which have been generally positive.

I could be mistaken in the data I'm focussing on, but please feel free to discuss/correct me.

You probably interpreting everything right. Even though I'm not sure what comments you are referring to. Let me comment on "noisy" and the 2.2dB (actually 1.8). I guess everyone knows the dB scale is logarithmic and that +2 dB = a doubled sound intensity measured in watts. So every dB is a large step. And it becomes more significant at these levels when it is close to what the human ear can pick up where 20dB is "audible". In the test you are referring to the microphone was sitting only 10 cm away from the side of the Ghost to pick up more noise. In reality you'll never sit this close to a computer. Sound waves loos intensity with the qube of the distance, by the time they reach your ears they will go below the "audible" level which is what you want from a silent computer. With the L12 this is what happens but not with the BigShurikan combo you are still able to just hear if loaded heavily for a longer time.

There is no reason for us to prize a discontinued cooler since it rises questions and a very tiresome discussion regarding case volume increases over and over again. So you can rest assure, we don't WANT the L12 to be any good compared to competition, implying the L12S would good as well. But the fact is that it is the best alternative that balances noise and cooling performance that we have tested so far. We need to be honest with this in order for everyone to have the same baseline information in the pursuit for the perfect AIR cooler for the Ghost S1 going forward. Currently the L12 is that magic cooler if you care about having a dead silent computer, soon we will find something better!

 

[PaChalski]

Now to some actual updates and good news! Hope this excites you as much as it does me!

1. FTW3 now fits thanks to the minor adjustments made to the back gable and by lowering the riser 1,7mm. More about this in the GPU compatibility list. See images below.

2. Dual 120 AIO works like a dream in one L-TopHat
Test setup:
- NZXT Kraken X31
- EVGA 1070 Hybrid

 

[DontPeek]

You probably interpreting everything right. Even though I'm not sure what comments you are referring to. Let me comment on "noisy" and the 2.2dB (actually 1.8). I guess everyone knows the dB scale is logarithmic and that +2 dB = a doubled sound intensity measured in watts. So every dB is a large step. And it becomes more significant at these levels when it is close to what the human ear can pick up where 20dB is "audible". In the test you are referring to the microphone was sitting only 10 cm away from the side of the Ghost to pick up more noise. In reality you'll never sit this close to a computer. Sound waves loos intensity with the qube of the distance, by the time they reach your ears they will go below the "audible" level which is what you want from a silent computer. With the L12 this is what happens but not with the BigShurikan combo you are still able to just hear if loaded heavily for a longer time.

There is no reason for us to prize a discontinued cooler since it rises questions and a very tiresome discussion regarding case volume increases over and over again. So you can rest assure, we don't WANT the L12 to be any good compared to competition, implying the L12S would good as well. But the fact is that it is the best alternative that balances noise and cooling performance that we have tested so far. We need to be honest with this in order for everyone to have the same baseline information in the pursuit for the perfect AIR cooler for the Ghost S1 going forward. Currently the L12 is that magic cooler if you care about having a dead silent computer, soon we will find something better!

I'm personally confused that you found the Shadow Rock LP to be 9c cooler at 13% less fan power than the Big Shuriken yet was 2db louder. Is the heatsink design really so bad that the airflow through the heatsink is causing that much extra noise? I think the comments he was referring to are the comments next to the results on page 6.

 

[PaChalski]

I'm personally confused that you found the Shadow Rock LP to be 9c cooler at 13% less fan power than the Big Shuriken yet was 2db louder. Is the heatsink design really so bad that the airflow through the heatsink is causing that much extra noise? I think the comments he was referring to are the comments next to the results on page 6.

The ShadowRock sits closer to the side panel, this is causing more noise in this specific application. All the answers should be in the report

 

[Legion]

I'm personally confused that you found the Shadow Rock LP to be 9c cooler at 13% less fan power than the Big Shuriken yet was 2db louder. Is the heatsink design really so bad that the airflow through the heatsink is causing that much extra noise? I think the comments he was referring to are the comments next to the results on page 6.

The "extra" noise being perceived over the db readings is created by air turbulence due to the cooler being almost pushed up against the side of the case due to it's 65mm height.
It's not just about the overall db readings, some people (myself included and apparently PaChalski) really dislike the sound of air turbulence as the fan is working harder to pull air in through the 1-2mm gap between it and the side of the case.

The cooler isn't bad by any means, in a case with more room for it, it is undoubtedly a solid performer. It's just not a good candidate for the Ghost S1 if you want it "quiet" and like PaChalski pointed out also DDR4 memory compatibility on this particular cooler is also pretty bad, because just like every other cooler in the 120mm topdown cooling category they were created in the DDR3 era. DDR3 has a lower package height than DDR4 and SFF PC air cooler development pretty much stopped after the market became saturated with them.

There are new "low profile" coolers in development by several Independent SFF designers in the Enthusiast community for "next gen" hardware as the big players in the cooler business have no interest in developing new coolers for our tiny boxes (Or if they are they aren't announcing anything about it)

Which cooler you decide to use is ultimately up to you, you are though being presented with what has been tested in the case and what the Louqe team thought about them.

Their testing is not the be all and end all, it's just there to allow you to have "easy" choices on what works well and what doesn't

 

[DontPeek]

The ShadowRock sits closer to the side panel, this is causing more noise in this specific application. All the answers should be in the report

Got it, thanks!

 

[B14CKB1RD]

Thanks for the clarification.

So, is the Noctua NH-L12 a clear winner?

I say again, nobody mentions Thermalright AXP-100RH and it a shame this cooler wasn't included within the test.

Yes, lack of AM4 compatibility is a shame for Big Shuriken 2 Rev B.

And yes, with the heatpipes vertical to DIMM slots, max RAM height is 39mm. However, with the heatpipes parallel to DIMM slots, max RAM height is 42mm.

I'm still considering to get the damn L12 even after I've already ordered L9x65 for my 1700 and Asus ROG B350i. But the main issue is will my FlareX 3200 C14 kit fit below the damn L12. They are 41mm in height so its tricky with that one mm left. Any of you guys here with that combo? Now following the gravity law and hot air rising, L12 heatpipes parallel position to DIMM slots would be friggin amazing for the heat dissipation and the overall looks. Hmm ...

 

[Legion]

I say again, nobody mentions Thermalright AXP-100RH and it a shame this cooler wasn't included within the test.



I'm still considering to get the damn L12 even after I've already ordered L9x65 for my 1700 and Asus ROG B350i. But the main issue is will my FlareX 3200 C14 kit fit below the damn L12. They are 41mm in height so its tricky with that one mm left. Any of you guys here with that combo? Now following the gravity law and hot air rising, L12 heatpipes parallel position to DIMM slots would be friggin amazing for the heat dissipation and the overall looks. Hmm ...

I have an original AXP-100 here with a newly purchased NF-A12x15. Tested: Incompatible with my Gskill Ripjaws V DDR4: It would require the heatspreader removal to make it work in the most favourable orientation.

I am going to do a test build on my delided 8600k. (decent sample, does 5.3ghz with complete stability @ 1.34v on air)
I'm going to retest my NH-L12 with the NF-A9x14, replacing the 92mm NF-B9 fan that ships with the NH-L12.
I have high hopes for a "managable" 5ghz with the NH-L12 in the Ghost S1. The 8600k's heat output is vastly reduced after the delid.

Your Flare-X "will" sit under the NH-L12, it's the same package height as Ripjaws V and I've already test fitted that with an NH-L12.

 

[B14CKB1RD]

I have an original AXP-100 here with a newly purchased NF-A12x15. I am going to do a test build with it to test on my delid'd 8600k. (decent sample, does 5.3ghz with complete stability @ 1.34v on air)
I'm also going to retest my NH-L12 with the NF-A9x14, replacing the 92mm NF-B9 fan that ships with the NH-L12.
I have high hopes for a "managable" 5ghz with the AXP-100 or NH-L12 in the Ghost S1. The 8600k's heat output is vastly reduced after the delid.

Your Flare-X "will" sit under the NH-L12, it's the same package height as Ripjaws V and I've already test fitted that with an NH-L12.

Ah the older AXP-100 Muscle, all aluminum right? Man very nice 8600K you have there but I'm not so sure about the OC over 5GHz with those coolers. You know I kinda miss the old Zalman full copper era and beautiful SFF coolers. To bad Zalman is no more. Some of their key staff went and started Cryorig, some guys from Thermalright too, so I hope Cryorig "will" do something nice in the near future, they have the brains. We just don't have any more options and thats sad.
My last Intel was 6600K so now I pulled the trigger for AMD finally and just can't wait to see how well it performs in this tiny setup. Hopefully Asus VRM's and their cooler will do its job inside Ghost. Thanks for FlareX heads up, thats gonna be some cramped setup, can't wait! Photo is perfectly adequate lol.

 

[Legion]

Ah the older AXP-100 Muscle, all aluminum right? Man very nice 8600K you have there but I'm not so sure about the OC over 5GHz with those coolers. You know I kinda miss the old Zalman full copper era and beautiful SFF coolers. To bad Zalman is no more. Some of their key staff went and started Cryorig, some guys from Thermalright too, so I hope Cryorig "will" do something nice in the near future, they have the brains. We just don't have any more options and thats sad.
My last Intel was 6600K so now I pulled the trigger for AMD finally and just can't wait to see how well it performs in this tiny setup. Hopefully Asus VRM's and their cooler will do its job inside Ghost. Thanks for FlareX heads up, thats gonna be some cramped setup, can't wait! Photo is perfectly adequate lol.

Nah, the muscle is a stripped down, "cheapened" version of the AXP-100 this is the original:
http://thermalright.com/product/axp-100/
This is sadly discontinued, the AXP-100R is the same cooler as the original with a RoG red fan and supplies of that still out in the wild are end of line also. So when they are gone, that's it for those too.......
The nasty stock fan will ofc be replaced with a tasty NF-A12x15.

I'm actually pretty optimistic for an "aircooled" 5ghz with my 8600k in the Ghost S1.
Holidays soon and I will have plenty of time to do some test builds

 

[PaChalski]

I have an original AXP-100 here with a newly purchased NF-A12x15. I am going to do a test build with it to test on my delid'd 8600k. (decent sample, does 5.3ghz with complete stability @ 1.34v on air)
I'm also going to retest my NH-L12 with the NF-A9x14, replacing the 92mm NF-B9 fan that ships with the NH-L12.
I have high hopes for a "managable" 5ghz with the AXP-100 or NH-L12 in the Ghost S1. The 8600k's heat output is vastly reduced after the delid.

Your Flare-X "will" sit under the NH-L12, it's the same package height as Ripjaws V and I've already test fitted that with an NH-L12.

Excuse the potato pic, on my backup phone after my S7 died today.....

Please let us know if this (impying AXP-100R) is a promising candidate for the throne! If it is, we will re-prioritize and include the AXP-100R in the line-up for the test! THANK YOU in advance!

EDIT: clarifying the AXP-100R is in question

 

[B14CKB1RD]

Nah, the muscle is a stripped down, "cheapened" version of the AXP-100 this is the original:
http://thermalright.com/product/axp-100/
This is sadly discontinued, the AXP-100R is the same cooler as the original with a RoG red fan and supplies of that still out in the wild are end of line also. So when they are gone, that's it for those too.......
The nasty stock fan will ofc be replaced with a tasty NF-A12x15.

I'm actually pretty optimistic for an "aircooled" 5ghz with my 8600k in the Ghost S1.
Holidays soon and I will have plenty of time to do some test builds

I see very nice, Noctua fan will do the job I'm sure! Although its also dangerously close to side panel probably producing some turbulence noise just like L9x65 did on the test but we'll see. I'm afraid that dust filters will improve on that turbulence sound even more and that sucks. :/
Fingers crossed for your 8600K, that would be awesome to have that kind of performance in such tiny package! For the Ghost!

 

[Legion]

Please let us know if this (impying AXP-100R) is a promising candidate for the throne! If it is, we will re-prioritize and include the AXP-100R in the line-up for the test! THANK YOU in advance!

/snip

I'm going to pull this recommendation, I've just tried fitting this onto a Z370-i and have learned that it now has issues with DDR4 package heights.........
It will not fit without removing the heatspreaders in the optimum orientation for the cooler in the Ghost S1
I really wouldn't recommend you do that with the current prices of DDR4.

So for now at least stick with PaChalski's recommendations.

 

[B14CKB1RD]

Some other tasty credentials of the AXP-100R include:

It's much, much smaller than the NH-L12
It does not interfere with ram slots (at least not on Intel socket boards)
You can mount it just like the NH-L12 in the Ghost S1 with the Heatpipes pointing upwards (Mounting on Intel sockets, not sure about AM4) which is the most desirable position for all coolers of this type in the Ghost S1

This has to perform even better. I'm not sure how this guy got it from Thermalright but that full copper AXP-100 was engineering sample some time ago. Thermalright said they would release it but until now we never saw it. @PaChalski maybe to contact Thermalright to ask them when exactly?

 

[Legion]

This has to perform even better. I'm not sure how this guy got it from Thermalright but that full copper AXP-100 was engineering sample some time ago. Thermalright said they would release it but until now we never saw it. @PaChalski maybe to contact Thermalright to ask them when exactly?

Thermalright made 10 Full Copper AXP-100's and pulled the plug on the project due to not enough "perceived" demand for what they would cost over the regular AXP-100 (at that point in time)
Several ended up on ebay for silly cheap money, I know a guy on another forum that bought 2 and will not part with either of them for any amount of money. (believe me I've tried to get him to sell me one several times hehe)

I think now maybe with the explosion of "enthusiast" grade SFF cases could well be a good time for someone to approach Thermalright and ask about the possibility of a 1000pc, Full Copper AXP-100 run, as more people care about performance and not as much about what things cost

The Dan HSLP-48cu will not be ready before the launch of the Ghost S1. From what I've seen of that so far in it's prototype stage, it could be the "go to" after it's release.

 

[B14CKB1RD]

Thermalright made 10 prototypes and pulled the plug on the project due to not enough "perceived" demand for what they would cost over the regular AXP-100 (at that point in time)
Several ended up on ebay for silly cheap money, I know a guy on another forum that bought 2 and will not part with either of them for any amount of money. (believe me I've tried to get him to sell me one several times hehe)

I think now maybe with the explosion of "enthusiast" grade SFF cases could well be a good time for someone to approach Thermalright and ask about the possibility of a 1000+ Full Copper AXP-100 run, as more people care about performance and not as much about what things cost?

There is no current completion date for the Dan HSLP-48cu project, the Full Copper AXP-100 revival could be just the "interim" solution we are all craving?

Ouh really didn't know about that. So they actually went with it and produced ten pcs, interesting.
Its exactly why someone needs to approach Thermalright again or/and Noctua to make this happen. Me personally I would rather go with Noctua cos of better more modern design but not going over 5 heatpipes in total. That way more surface is secured for them copper fins. All in all full copper L12 is the right path. Cu for the people!

 

[Gravexmind]

Intake (as in towards the cpu), because it performs worse in exhaust mode (as in towards the side panel) for a number of reasons, one likely being recirculation of warm air.

Setting it as intake doesn’t pull warm air down onto the cpu and vrm??

 

[elliot_alderson]

Now to some actual updates and good news! Hope this excites you as much as it does me!

1. FTW3 now fits thanks to the minor adjustments made to the back gable and by lowering the riser 1,7mm. More about this in the GPU compatibility list. See images below.

2. Dual 120 AIO works like a dream in one L-TopHat
Test setup:
- NZXT Kraken X31
- EVGA 1070 Hybrid

Thanks for this!
I'm now debating keeping by EVGA 1080ti Hybrid, but can't seem to find a decent 120mm AIO for CPU.
The Kraken X31 is no longer made (superseded by the X42).
I'm also wondering if the pump noise from gpu/cpu is audible in the case on a desk? Especially at idle?
Also, I believe AIO's are supposed to have the radiator mounted above the pump to stop air getting in the pump. Is it possible to do dual AIO's in a top mounted TopHat?
I'm tempted to sell my Hybrid and get the FTW3 and the NH-L12 for 8700K.
Hmm..