Prototype The world most flexible SFF case? LOUQE Ghost S1
- Thread starter PaChalski
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If you keep the pump under 50% it is not loud at all, over that and it does get loud. Very loud at 100%.
Ive always wondered whether a Drive II can fit and run a DDC310... it would make a lot more sense for most sff builds
Intake! changing that ruins the from-sides-to-top-airflow and will result in significantly higher temps together with a crazy RPMs. Also, hot air would leak over to the CPU side from the GPU compartment.NH-L12 taking the cake again. I'll just go with that one I guess and if it doesn't fit with Ryzen, tough luck
http://louqe.com/img/img/ext/ext/GhostCPUheatSinkTest.pdf
One question though, was the NH-L12 fan set as intake or exhaust in the tests?
For vertical-flow coolers whether intake or exhaust is better really depends on the case airflow. In S1, it makes definitely more sense to have it as intake. Along with that, what would surely help is fans on top to help with exhaust.
I've been looking at doing exactly this with an Apogee Drive 2 and something like the Sollertia 120mm reservoir. It would take a bit of dremel work to get this reservoir in though because its 32mm thick and the fan/HDD space is restricted to 27.5mm.
@PaChalski is there a reason the height of the fan/HDD cutout in the spine is limited to 27.5? Any chance you could increase this a bit?
There are a coupe of resons the cutout is this height:
1. SFX PSU power cables end aprox at this level. With the planned alternative (elevated) PSU position it could make sense increasing the cutout by another 15 mm
2. The larger the cutout the more the two compartments will affect each other
Basically it could make good sense increasing this cutout height and creating better 120 mm AIO possibilities here.
+1 for that so please don't go over 10mm with that extra cutout. Otherwise GPU compartment could build up the temps to PSU/CPU compartment.
I posted this over on [H]ardforum as well but wanted to get this community's input:
Any comment about SFX vs SFX-L PSUs? With the new elevated position of the PSU mount will there be room for a full 25mm fan under an SFX-L PSU? How's the overall fit with an SFX-L?
Also, what does the community consider to be the quietest SFF PSU? I currently have a Silverstone SFX-L 500 v1.0. It's subjectively quiet but the fan makes a clicking noise. Pachalski, have you guys settled on the Corsair SF series as being the best?
Any comment about SFX vs SFX-L PSUs? With the new elevated position of the PSU mount will there be room for a full 25mm fan under an SFX-L PSU? How's the overall fit with an SFX-L?
Also, what does the community consider to be the quietest SFF PSU? I currently have a Silverstone SFX-L 500 v1.0. It's subjectively quiet but the fan makes a clicking noise. Pachalski, have you guys settled on the Corsair SF series as being the best?
I don't think the Apogee Drive II will fit in this case:
The Fractal Design Celsius/Kelvin has probably the only standalone pump/CPU block combo that will fit.
Another possibility is the Alphacool Eiswolf GPX Pro, which integrates the pump into the GPU block.
The new elevated position will allow for a 15 mm tall fan to be placed underneath an SFX-L PSU.
I would not call the overall fit of an SFX-L roomy but it is no problem and with premiered cables it is actually very easy.
You can see an SFX-L mounted here:
We actually like the Corsair SFX PSUs better than the Silverstone 800W because of powerperformance and that it in not moving (passively cooled) most of the time. Silverstone will soon releasing (may be out already?) a purely passive SFX-L that could prove to be the best option!
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I don't think the Apogee Drive II will fit in this case:
The Fractal Design Celsius/Kelvin has probably the only standalone pump/CPU block combo that will fit.
Another possibility is the Alphacool Eiswolf GPX Pro, which integrates the pump into the GPU block.
The terminals on the apogee rotate to 45degrees. That plus a 45 degree fitting should keep it under the 66mm limit... I think... I hope
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It's actually only ~30 degrees, so 45 degree fittings won't help. 90 degree fittings might though:
You'll have to be very careful to get sufficiently short fittings though; these 1/4" ID Koolance fittings are amongst the lowest profile right angle fittings, and they just squeeze in with a couple mm to spare. Taller fittings, or fittings for larger diameter tubing likely won't fit.
It's actually only ~30 degrees, so 45 degree fittings won't help. 90 degree fittings might though:
You'll have to be very careful to get sufficiently short fittings though; these 1/4" ID Koolance fittings are amongst the lowest profile right angle fittings, and they just squeeze in with a couple mm to spare. Taller fittings, or fittings for larger diameter tubing likely won't fit.
Cheers @Necere ! Where/how are you finding/making these renders?
Just models I made myself in Sketchup.
There seems to be a lot of comments regarding the cpu temps for the 8700k and the tests on kickstarter. People will always be skeptical of the test results.
I really wish it could fit an L12s and I know other people who want to air cool would too. It shouldn't be the notion that you'd have to increase the case size every time a company like Noctua releases a new sff cpu cooler. But if it's one of the best cpu cooling companies and they revise a longstanding sff cooler, it should at least be considered more. I mean the L12s was made 4+ years after the L12.
Instead you should think of like: what air cooler will accommodate newer and possibly upcoming cpus? Hence a lot of concern with the 8700k and an L12. The 8700k is what a many people currently want to put in this thing, only to have to settle for an sff cooler released in 2012/13 when it has since been redesigned. So people will be very hesitant to put their new $400+ cpu and rely on an older generation cooler.
Don't get me wrong, I have an unopened L12 sitting in the corner for this. But that's because it's my best option for air cooling that I'm limited to and it's discontinued. Am I concerned about having to downclock my 8700k? Yes. If the case were 4mm wider to accommodate what could be the modern version of the best sff air cooler, would I get an L12s? Of course I would.
What concerns me is the logic that we'd be getting the best modern parts for this new case, but we're going to have to settle for the best cooler from 4+ years ago. Don't think of it as increasing the case by 4mm to fit the newest Noctua cooler. Think of it like increasing the case by 4mm to allow more people to be able to put newer i7's in it and the next 1-2 year's upcoming cpus which the L12s might be better suited for.
I really wish it could fit an L12s and I know other people who want to air cool would too. It shouldn't be the notion that you'd have to increase the case size every time a company like Noctua releases a new sff cpu cooler. But if it's one of the best cpu cooling companies and they revise a longstanding sff cooler, it should at least be considered more. I mean the L12s was made 4+ years after the L12.
Instead you should think of like: what air cooler will accommodate newer and possibly upcoming cpus? Hence a lot of concern with the 8700k and an L12. The 8700k is what a many people currently want to put in this thing, only to have to settle for an sff cooler released in 2012/13 when it has since been redesigned. So people will be very hesitant to put their new $400+ cpu and rely on an older generation cooler.
Don't get me wrong, I have an unopened L12 sitting in the corner for this. But that's because it's my best option for air cooling that I'm limited to and it's discontinued. Am I concerned about having to downclock my 8700k? Yes. If the case were 4mm wider to accommodate what could be the modern version of the best sff air cooler, would I get an L12s? Of course I would.
What concerns me is the logic that we'd be getting the best modern parts for this new case, but we're going to have to settle for the best cooler from 4+ years ago. Don't think of it as increasing the case by 4mm to fit the newest Noctua cooler. Think of it like increasing the case by 4mm to allow more people to be able to put newer i7's in it and the next 1-2 year's upcoming cpus which the L12s might be better suited for.
On the other hand, it has ample support for watercooling with the tophats. It's about use cases, really. In SFF it gets hard to maintain air cooling with hot chips, so AIOs are useful.
We have not tested the L12S so we don't know if it potentially would be a better fit with the 4mm increase in width of the case. Actually no one can know for sure before it has been tested in reality. We did a new tests an published it on the KS campaign as you say. This time using more aggressive fan settings that allow the fans to spool up more earlier and potentially causing more noise.
We understand these results are hard to believe. When we first saw them on the first prototype we had to make reruns only to believe it ourselves and then it hit us - this will be hard to communicate without people questioning the results. So we have urged the reviewers to run these tests and share their results because this is one of the biggest USPs of the Ghost, but so far they haven't really done this - still hoping Dave will do it! If you have any ideas on how we could communicate this more convincingly and impartially without putting our hopes in reviewers' hands we would love to do it. Maybe someone here lives close by and could swing by to confirm!? We could do a live 3Dmark run during the live stream today, probably at the end of it not to waste time.
The point is that The Ghost performs well with any of these coolers. When you experience this yourself we believe you'll be happy the case was not made any bigger. There is no need for down volting or delidding with any of these coolers! The key to this performance is the "Back-to-back architecture, only the fact that it gives superior vertical heat-pipe orientation is important.
The L12S compared to the L12: you call it a 4 year old design, but what is really different and why is the S better other than the fact that it is available? I'm not sure I'd prefer the S even with the 4mm case width increase only because it is newer, i'd base my decision on facts available and then test the candidates myself to understand the implications these facts have in my specific application:
- The S is lifted give it sufficient ram clearance when using a 120 mm slim fan - but the clearance is still lower than that of the L12, no?
- You get one fan only with the S
- It is taller
- Same recommended TDP?
- The S has a copper base, potentially an improvement but I'm not sure... heat traveling between different mediums is never optimal, if it would have been all copper I'd understand
In our view the L12 is the superior alternative, it has given us a solid baseline, a starting-point from where our expectations should keep rising. The question is now: Where do we go from here and how can it be improved further? Yesterday we reached out to Noctua (located not far from Stockholm) to initiate a dialogue with them to see if we can answer this question together. We don't know where that will lead at this point but we see several outcomes that would truly be better than increasing the size of the Ghost S1.
Link to test
Just because it’s newer doesn’t mean it’s better. And even if it was a few degrees cooler it’s not worth it to make the whole case wider imo. It’s a shame the NH-L12 is discontinued now, luckily got mine on the way.
But the NH-L12 is probably the better option in this use case anyway. If you widen the case 4mm and stick the slim fan right against the side panel we’re gonna have turbulence which can result the cooler being noisier than its older brother.
Again: just because an air cooler is a few years old doesn’t mean it won’t do its job well. Air cooler development is quite slow. I got a 10 years old Noctua still in use and I doubt it’s much worse than a modern version of the model.
As seen from Louqe’s tests, the NH-L12 does its job very well in the Ghost. The only problem is availability.
The thing is all we need is a good full copper air cooler. Probably 4 or even 6 pipes L12 style fully copper (base, pipes, fins) and only that might handle 180W TDP or even more to be some future proof. So yeah basically we can just sit and wait for those new Cryorig Cu models coming very soon or we need you guys @PaChalski to reach out to Noctua and make them come hopefully with full Cu models either from L9x65 or L12 variant and problem solved end of story happy ending air cooling wise. Simple as that. Now the other side of coin, since I was with some IT companies handling cooling way back I have some experience regarding copper. Its gonna be expensive, tricky to manufacture and very very heavy and is why most companies today avoid going full Cu route for mainstream air coolers. Its practically niche of its own. Until then we have little choice but go with AIOs like Fractal Design S24 or NZXT Kraken X62 for more powerful CPUs. Me personally I go with 65W TDP max and air cooling anytime cos I just can't stand that awful pump noise.
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