Hello world!
Today I'm pleased to reveal my build log of SFF Time N-ATX v2.
Thanks again for @riba2233 to reserve me 1st piece!
I decided to replace my Sliger S620 with SFFTime N-ATX v2 for several reasons, but the main one was to commonalize all my setups with ATX motherboards, vertical stand GPUs & nvme m.2 SSDs.
Thus it is said that I'm leaving the Mini-ITX motherboard world, while staying in the Small Form Factor world!
This important decision was iniated one year ago (2021) with the poor Z690 mini-ITX lineup, confirmed by AM5 mini-ITX Lineup in 2022. Hopefully it is not the only reason as I also identified those ones :!
Now it is time to jump in the build log!
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#1 : Assembly (06th November 2022)
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Before building, it was time for bios update for my sweet Asus C6H motherboard (thanks again cable extensions used from my S4 mini with external SFX PSU build..
)
From now, Asus C6H has received agesa 1.2.07 v2!, really useful for a 5-years old motherboard to use all Zen 3 functions!
First thing to note is that N-ATX v2 is coming in loose piece, in a rather small carton package :
(from original N-ATX v2 thread)
Building N-ATX v2 manual is rather good and well explained!
Screws are also well detailed and split in two different plastic bags for better sorting.
Main case frame is easy to assemble, the same for USB Type-C header & motherboard
RTX 3090 FE installation was also smooth!
And now start roadblocks.
First main roadblock was PSU installation.
Target was to use my silverstonetek SX800-LTI, with the intake on the same side as CPU/GPU.
Several issues occurred :
I thought it was coming from the front panel stud. I filed it a little bit with no success.
At the end, I double checked all screws, power cord extender plug, push harder and it works at last!
ps : for Information, I never face such troubles assembly PSU in any of previous PC cases (and they are pretty numerous..)
Overall (bracket design, assembly in case), PSU assembly clearly requires major improvements for N-ATX v3 (or v2b)
Here is the result, hopefully, it is perfect for cooling!
Second roadblock was to secure properly side panels, as they are used to assembly vertical stand (you push/force the side panel to secure stand).
Basically if side panels are not well secured, your stand is not secured too.
However, after the first assembly & disassembly of the stand I discovered that one of the back side panels (front) has some tape to adjust (I suppose) but the provided screw (M3, 5mm) was too short and basically the upper thread portion was damaged..
Easy fix was to change provided screws (black) by slightly longer version (silver) :
On long term, if thread is completely damaged, last resort action will be to replace front of the case (doable due to modularity of the case)
Securing Side panels & Vertical stand requires improvement
Last change I did on my setup was to add a back exhaust 120x25 fan.
Its installation was really smooth :
In a surprising way, cable management was really good. Generally it is usually an issue in the SFF world, especially with no custom PSU cable.
Overall building experience was like a rolling coaster : great as general assembling the case/frame was easy and bad mainly due to road blocks I faced & hopefully surpassed.
Here is complete list of component used :
Well no...
After building N-ATX v2, let's test it & enjoy it!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#2 : Performance & Global Tour (06th November 2022)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's start with direct comparison with my beloved Sliger Cerberus-X / Cat..
I must admit, N-ATX v2 looks gorgeous!
Does it perform well also?
Short answer is yes!
Without a back panel exhaust fan, it faced a 4 hours gaming session on "A plague Tale : Requiem" without any major issue (no GDDR6X overheating).
From this gameplay experience, I switched Noctua NFA12x25 "Sterrox" to Fractal Design Venturi HP-12PWM for acoustics & esthetics. Its rubber corners are so great to amortize vibration noise.
I also placed a back exhaust fan, spinning only at 800 rpm, (same FD venturi HP-12 PWM as on cpu cooler) to improve sligthly hot air exhaust and decrease even more GDDR6X temperature (minus 2-4°C).
In terms of cooling & acoustics, N-ATX v2 is really, really good!
Compared to my sweet Cerberus-X, GPU cooling is on par! Obviously on CPU cooling, I can only rely on "free" overclocking using PBO2 with -30 curve...but it is plenty enough for my needs!
As usual, here is a representative gaming experience in "A Plague Tale : Requiem" :
And related HWinfo64 info
Last point regarding user experience, front type-C port is working well but with anomalies :
At the end, I'm enjoying a lot my experience N-ATX v2 (1000x better than Node 202 or CL530, cases with similar layout), and I will simply state that Cerberus-X has now a true competitor on ATX SFF world, or at last, in my heart !
As usual, enjoy!
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#3 : PCIe Gen4 Riser (11th November 2022)
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Today I would like to continue deep diving on performance testing of my new platform.
Let's start with Riser PCIe Gen 4, provided by N-ATX v2.
Obviously, it will be limited to PCIe Gen 3 due to the Motherboard (Asus C6H), but it is still interesting to compare it with "theoretical" bandwidth.
For that I'm using 3DMark, PCIe test, leading to 13.08GB/s, to be compared to "theoretical" of 16GB/s
As I was intrigued, I continued my inquiries with the 3DMark Time Spy benchmark (1440p) test and compared it with my previous tests, done with the same motherboard, GPU but with R7 3800X..
Here is result of RTX 3090 FE + R7 5800X (N-ATX)
Here is comparison, using RTX 3090 FE +R7 5800X or R7 3800X
Overall, you can notice +3% increase of GPU performance, pretty logical due to CPU upgrade...but, most importantly, no downgrade of performance due to Gen 4 PCIe Riser.
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#4 : Horizontal vs Vertical Stand of N-ATX v2 (11th November 2022)
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As you know, I'm really fond of using my Cerberus-X in a horizontal stand. Thus I also wanted to test N-ATX cooling performance in that horizontal orientation.
For that purpose I used the same hifi feet (with magnetic tape) as for my CL530 setup...I must admit magnetic tape was surprisingly useful on metallic furniture I'm using..
No argue here : N-ATX v2 is also gorgeous while standing horizontally!
Now it is time for the cooling test.
For that I'm back in "A plague tale : Requiem" to compare, while using same hardware components temperatures :
Verdict ?
All temperatures are worse in horizontal stand versus vertical stand :
PS : Cherry on the top, it is also possible to improve GPU by making it sit on back panel fan (there is only 1-2mm gap)
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#5 : CPU Cooling & Thermal paste (11th November 2022)
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As edited/highlighted in my first logs on N-ATXv2, I used thermal paste Arctic MX-5 where I had some doubts due to its weird aspect (oily part split from paste). Anyway I used it and CPU thermals were not critical either.
Thus I decided to inquire more on this topic.
First I decided to test CPU thermals in more CPU demanding game, ie CyberPunk 2077 (continuous data streaming)
Arctic MX-5 + Thermalright AXP120-67+FD Venturi HP-12 PWM
And now I moved to Arctic MX-6, that has way better aspect than 1-year aged MX-5 (I also changed CPU fan, back to Noctua NFA12x25, no impact)
Arctic MX-6 + Thermalright AXP120-67+Noctua NF-A12x25 "Sterrox"
Conclusion?
Well CPU temperature drops by 5°C at similar power usage (75w)!
Clearly 1year-age MX-5 was faulty!
On top of that, I can also conclude that thermalright AXP120-67 is really capable of handling 120W tdp CPU, with a reasonable noise output.
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#6 : Semi-Passive build (13th November 2022)
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As the thermal paste issue was fixed, I attempted to aim for full semi-passive mode while on low load.
In order to do so, I replaced all fans with 0 rpm mode at 0% PWM (all recent Noctua pwm fans are capable of 0 rpm mode). Thus I replaced all FD Venturi HP-12 with Noctua fans.
On software side, I installed excellent "Fan Control" (as already stated in my Cerberus-X log, I'm definitely recommending this tool).
I'm using Fan Control only to manage Fans connected to the motherboard.
As RTX 3090 FE passive mode could be only reached while using firmware control, I'm using allmighty MSI Afterburner to do so :
On the PSU side, SX800 LTI fan is only spinning while the load is reaching 160W.
At worst case, CPU fan is starting spinning at around 300 rpm...completely inaudible (fan start & stop are inaudible on Noctua)
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#7 : Fans setup (14th November 2022)
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In order to complete my N-ATX v2 setup, here are all fans setup (motherboard, bios, Fan control & RTX 3090 FE)
N-ATX v2 Fan Setup for Bios :
N-ATX v2 Fan Setup for Fan Control (Semi Passive mode) :
RTX 3090 FE Fans setup for MSI Afterburner :
Thus am I reaching full passive mode in N-ATX v2? YES! Here is the proof!
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#8 : Side Panel Screw issue (20th November 2022)
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The thread of the back/front side panel damage has increased as I'm keeping opening/closing the case to do further hardware changes. Thus I was forced to switch once again to a longer screw.
This time I used an M3x20 screw to make sure the full length of thread.
In the worst case, if the thread is completely damaged I will be able to use an M3 nut to secure the panel.
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#9 : Changing GPU (20th November 2022)
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As a temporary solution (time to find a worthy successor of my RTX 3090 FE in my Cerberus-X), I switched back to my MSI GTX 1080 Ti.
As both RTX 3090 FE & MSI GTX 1080ti have similar thickness (2.75 slots vs 2.50 slot), the process was pretty easy and quick. (8 screws in total, including panels ones)
I tested PCIe bandwidth, leading to same result as on RTX 3090 FE, ie 13GB/s
In terms of performance/cooling, N-ATX v2 proved to be also really good while using GPU with pure axial fans and solid back plate (MSI GTX 1080 ti) as it is while using GPU with passthrough cooling (RTX 3090 FE). I compared its performance using 3DMark Timespy (1440p) versus 2017 score from original Cerberus-X (AMD R7 1700X + MSI GTX 1080ti)
Look at the CPU score, it improved by 30%! It was done using the same RAM & Motherboard! The AM4 platform was really impressive in terms of future proofing!
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#10 : Performance benchmarking vs Cerberus-X (20th November 2022)
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Now it is to compare performance Cerberus-X (2017) vs N-ATX v2 (2022)!
Let's start by setups comparison :
I skipped PCIe bandwidth as Asus C6H is limiting everything to Gen 3, i.e. 16GB/s theoretically (13GB/s in practice).
Regarding TimeSpy (1440p benchmark), here are results :
As expected, Intel Core i5 12600K (OC) is +20% ahead vs R7 5800X (PBO2 OC only).
It is also important to note that RTX 3090 FE scores are pretty close all together (0.7% gap).
Now it is time for gaming comparison, using opening scenes from "A Plague Tale : Requiem"!
Here is comparison :
Conclusion?
Overall, N-ATX v2 is an excellent case, on par with Cerberus-X regarding GPU cooling, with less noise and additional dust.
I've only 2 remaining factors to test :
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#11 : N-ATXv2 meets Nvidia RTX 4080 FE (27th November 2022)
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To be honest, the current discrete GPU market is weird. After 2 years of crypto-mania, "new" previous GPUs are, at last, at their MSRP in USD, approximately. However, the USD/EUR FX rate collapsed also (from 1.20 USD/EUR to 1.00 USD/EUR approx)...thus all GPUs prices in Europe are now +20% more expensive than previously...
I also looked at the second hand market...finding RTX 3090 FE at approx 1000 euros.
Here is a summary :
RDNA3 are promising but their quantity (very few expected in 2023), their prices (1200€ expected) and their announced "average" RT performance (somewhere below RTX 3000 series) led me to another dead end.
Overall my initial GPU budget was around 1000€.
At last, as I'm still in the SFF world with N-ATXv2 and Cerberus-X, the GPU dimensions were also vital.
I put all those constraints in my head mixer and get to the conclusion to get an Nvidia RTX 4080 Founder's Edition for 1469€.
And now comparison vs MSI GTX 1080 ti (almost same TDP..), 5.5 years between them :
Overall, the biggest constraint to fit RTX 4080 FE in N-ATXv2 (and Cerberus-X, more to come on my thread log) was this "new", "bulky" ATX 3 PCIe 5.0 connector!
Its orientation is straight vertical (vs angled orientation on RTX 3090 FE) and the female connector of the provided adapter is not really flexible. I'll look at replacing it pretty quickly, especially for Cerberus-X.
Hopefully in N-ATXv2, managing a clean routing of this PCIe 5.0 adapter was pretty easy (above RAM).
Now it is time to power it on!
Somehow I was lucky to start using my RTX 4080 FE with my Asus C6H (Crosshair Hero VI) as I did not experience any "black screen" bug. However I was forced anyway to make a fresh install of drivers.
PS : For info, with my Asus Z690 MB, I was unable to see bios booting...leading to black screen bug. Hopefully I was able to reach Windows (after some hard reboots). I was able to flash RTX 4080 FE firmware. (https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5411/?=&linkId=100000163736896). Now it is working like a charm.
Here are interesting photos, illustrating semi-passive mode. Computer is ON and all fans are stopped.
What about RTX 4080 FE performance?
Well, in order not to spoil too much, I will share some results on 3DMark :
Obviously, more to come quickly..
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#12 : N-ATXv2 Front Face replacement & C6H Wifi 6 (12th February 2023)
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Today was dedicated to the maintenance of my STTIME N-ATXv2 and my Asus Crosshair Hero VI.
To replace the N-ATX v2 front panel, it is required to remove at minimum :
One noticeable change on my new part was the absence of tape near damaged thread:
Regarding update of my Asus C6H, it was pretty tricky to take photos (not enough hands..), but here is process steps :
In terms of network speed, well, we are very closed to 1 gigabit ethernet transfer speed & latency : (Maximum bandwidth is 1000 Mbps download and 500 Mbps upload)
Let's finish with some photos of the final build :
Conclusion :
PS : I also tested another front usb-c extension, but I face similar strange behaviors (working with my external SSD, but failing to transfer more than 2 photos in a row with my phone..). Thus it should be a compatibility/software issue, but it is completely fine for my personal case.
PS : I used M3x6mm screws to secure the side panels (default are 5mm)
Today I'm pleased to reveal my build log of SFF Time N-ATX v2.
Thanks again for @riba2233 to reserve me 1st piece!
I decided to replace my Sliger S620 with SFFTime N-ATX v2 for several reasons, but the main one was to commonalize all my setups with ATX motherboards, vertical stand GPUs & nvme m.2 SSDs.
Thus it is said that I'm leaving the Mini-ITX motherboard world, while staying in the Small Form Factor world!
This important decision was iniated one year ago (2021) with the poor Z690 mini-ITX lineup, confirmed by AM5 mini-ITX Lineup in 2022. Hopefully it is not the only reason as I also identified those ones :!
- Recycle ATX Motherboard from one setup to second one
- Way more ATX MB spare parts available (inline with poor mini-ITX MB lineups)
- ATX MB reliability...or mini ITX unreliability due to really crammed setup
- More m.2 slots on ATX MB, all on front face (better access & cooling)
Now it is time to jump in the build log!
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#1 : Assembly (06th November 2022)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before building, it was time for bios update for my sweet Asus C6H motherboard (thanks again cable extensions used from my S4 mini with external SFX PSU build..
)
From now, Asus C6H has received agesa 1.2.07 v2!, really useful for a 5-years old motherboard to use all Zen 3 functions!
First thing to note is that N-ATX v2 is coming in loose piece, in a rather small carton package :
(from original N-ATX v2 thread)
Building N-ATX v2 manual is rather good and well explained!
Screws are also well detailed and split in two different plastic bags for better sorting.
Main case frame is easy to assemble, the same for USB Type-C header & motherboard
RTX 3090 FE installation was also smooth!
And now start roadblocks.
First main roadblock was PSU installation.
Target was to use my silverstonetek SX800-LTI, with the intake on the same side as CPU/GPU.
Several issues occurred :
- Included PSU bracket is not compatible with my SX800-LTI (I tried also my SFX SX700 and it was compatible withbad airflow)
- Hopefully I was covered by Silerstonetek PP08 SFX to ATX PSU adapter
- Thanks to that adapter I could set up PSU intake on either side of N-ATX v2 case (like ATX PSU)
I thought it was coming from the front panel stud. I filed it a little bit with no success.
At the end, I double checked all screws, power cord extender plug, push harder and it works at last!
ps : for Information, I never face such troubles assembly PSU in any of previous PC cases (and they are pretty numerous..
)Overall (bracket design, assembly in case), PSU assembly clearly requires major improvements for N-ATX v3 (or v2b)
Here is the result, hopefully, it is perfect for cooling!
Second roadblock was to secure properly side panels, as they are used to assembly vertical stand (you push/force the side panel to secure stand).
Basically if side panels are not well secured, your stand is not secured too.
However, after the first assembly & disassembly of the stand I discovered that one of the back side panels (front) has some tape to adjust (I suppose) but the provided screw (M3, 5mm) was too short and basically the upper thread portion was damaged..
Easy fix was to change provided screws (black) by slightly longer version (silver) :
On long term, if thread is completely damaged, last resort action will be to replace front of the case (doable due to modularity of the case)
Securing Side panels & Vertical stand requires improvement
Last change I did on my setup was to add a back exhaust 120x25 fan.
Its installation was really smooth :
- Insert behind SFX PSU
- Slide it below in position (doable as I did not put any fan grid)
In a surprising way, cable management was really good. Generally it is usually an issue in the SFF world, especially with no custom PSU cable.
Overall building experience was like a rolling coaster : great as general assembling the case/frame was easy and bad mainly due to road blocks I faced & hopefully surpassed.
Here is complete list of component used :
- Case : SFFTime N-ATX v2, with gen 4 PCIe riser
- Motherboard : Asus X370 Crosshair VI Hero
- CPU : AMD R7 5800X (PBO2, Curve -30)
- CPU Cooler : Thermalright AXP120-67 with 25mmx120mm Fractal Design Venturi HP-12PWM fan (Intake)
- Thermal Paste : Arctic MX-5, but it was difficult to apply, as the oily portion split from paste. For info, Arctic stopped MX-5, acknowledging its technical issues. I'm planning to change the thermal paste quite soon.
- RAM : 2x8Go GSkil Flare-X DDR4 (3200 MTS @ 14-14-14-34) @1.35v
- GPU : Nvidia RTX 3090 FE undervolted 1800Mhz@806mV (Curve), 90% Power Limit, Custom Fan curve
- PSU : Silverstonetek SX-800 LTI v1.0 (Titanium) with SilverstoneTek PP08 adapter
- SSD#1 : m.2 ADATA SX8200 Pro 2To (located behind RTX 3090 FE, reached 47°C Maximum during trial)
- Back Panel Fan : 25mmx120mm Fractal Design Venturi HP-12PWM fan (Exhaust)
Well no...
After building N-ATX v2, let's test it & enjoy it!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#2 : Performance & Global Tour (06th November 2022)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's start with direct comparison with my beloved Sliger Cerberus-X / Cat..
I must admit, N-ATX v2 looks gorgeous!
Does it perform well also?
Short answer is yes!
Without a back panel exhaust fan, it faced a 4 hours gaming session on "A plague Tale : Requiem" without any major issue (no GDDR6X overheating).
From this gameplay experience, I switched Noctua NFA12x25 "Sterrox" to Fractal Design Venturi HP-12PWM for acoustics & esthetics. Its rubber corners are so great to amortize vibration noise.
I also placed a back exhaust fan, spinning only at 800 rpm, (same FD venturi HP-12 PWM as on cpu cooler) to improve sligthly hot air exhaust and decrease even more GDDR6X temperature (minus 2-4°C).
In terms of cooling & acoustics, N-ATX v2 is really, really good!
Compared to my sweet Cerberus-X, GPU cooling is on par! Obviously on CPU cooling, I can only rely on "free" overclocking using PBO2 with -30 curve...but it is plenty enough for my needs!
As usual, here is a representative gaming experience in "A Plague Tale : Requiem" :
And related HWinfo64 info
Last point regarding user experience, front type-C port is working well but with anomalies :
- While connecting external SDD, connection is pretty long (10 seconds) but everything works fine later on
- While connecting my mobile phone (Huawei P20 pro), connection is fast but connection is not stable (hopefully back panel type-C is working like a charm)
At the end, I'm enjoying a lot my experience N-ATX v2 (1000x better than Node 202 or CL530, cases with similar layout), and I will simply state that Cerberus-X has now a true competitor on ATX SFF world, or at last, in my heart !
As usual, enjoy!
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#3 : PCIe Gen4 Riser (11th November 2022)
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Today I would like to continue deep diving on performance testing of my new platform.
Let's start with Riser PCIe Gen 4, provided by N-ATX v2.
Obviously, it will be limited to PCIe Gen 3 due to the Motherboard (Asus C6H), but it is still interesting to compare it with "theoretical" bandwidth.
For that I'm using 3DMark, PCIe test, leading to 13.08GB/s, to be compared to "theoretical" of 16GB/s
As I was intrigued, I continued my inquiries with the 3DMark Time Spy benchmark (1440p) test and compared it with my previous tests, done with the same motherboard, GPU but with R7 3800X..
Here is result of RTX 3090 FE + R7 5800X (N-ATX)
Here is comparison, using RTX 3090 FE +R7 5800X or R7 3800X
Overall, you can notice +3% increase of GPU performance, pretty logical due to CPU upgrade...but, most importantly, no downgrade of performance due to Gen 4 PCIe Riser.
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#4 : Horizontal vs Vertical Stand of N-ATX v2 (11th November 2022)
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As you know, I'm really fond of using my Cerberus-X in a horizontal stand. Thus I also wanted to test N-ATX cooling performance in that horizontal orientation.
For that purpose I used the same hifi feet (with magnetic tape) as for my CL530 setup...I must admit magnetic tape was surprisingly useful on metallic furniture I'm using..
No argue here : N-ATX v2 is also gorgeous while standing horizontally!
Now it is time for the cooling test.
For that I'm back in "A plague tale : Requiem" to compare, while using same hardware components temperatures :
Verdict ?
All temperatures are worse in horizontal stand versus vertical stand :
- GPU Core : 69°C vs 66°C
- GPU GDDR6X : 102°C vs 100°C
- CPU : 65°C vs 57°C (CPU power consumption is equivalent between 2 tests)
- Back exhaust fan : 934rpm vs 617rpm (ie Motherboard temperature increased)
PS : Cherry on the top, it is also possible to improve GPU by making it sit on back panel fan (there is only 1-2mm gap)
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#5 : CPU Cooling & Thermal paste (11th November 2022)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As edited/highlighted in my first logs on N-ATXv2, I used thermal paste Arctic MX-5 where I had some doubts due to its weird aspect (oily part split from paste). Anyway I used it and CPU thermals were not critical either.
Thus I decided to inquire more on this topic.
First I decided to test CPU thermals in more CPU demanding game, ie CyberPunk 2077 (continuous data streaming)
Arctic MX-5 + Thermalright AXP120-67+FD Venturi HP-12 PWM
- GPU Core : 66°C
- GPU GDDR6X : 100°C
- CPU : 68°C @75W approx.
- Fans :
- CPU, intake : 1600rpm
- Back, exhaust : 665rpm
And now I moved to Arctic MX-6, that has way better aspect than 1-year aged MX-5 (I also changed CPU fan, back to Noctua NFA12x25, no impact)
Arctic MX-6 + Thermalright AXP120-67+Noctua NF-A12x25 "Sterrox"
- GPU Core : 66°C
- GPU GDDR6X : 100°C
- CPU : 63°C @75W approx.
- Fans :
- CPU, intake : 1600rpm
- Back, exhaust : 627rpm
Conclusion?
Well CPU temperature drops by 5°C at similar power usage (75w)!
Clearly 1year-age MX-5 was faulty!
On top of that, I can also conclude that thermalright AXP120-67 is really capable of handling 120W tdp CPU, with a reasonable noise output.
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#6 : Semi-Passive build (13th November 2022)
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As the thermal paste issue was fixed, I attempted to aim for full semi-passive mode while on low load.
In order to do so, I replaced all fans with 0 rpm mode at 0% PWM (all recent Noctua pwm fans are capable of 0 rpm mode). Thus I replaced all FD Venturi HP-12 with Noctua fans.
- CPU Fan : Noctua NF-A12x25 "Sterrox"
- Back fan : Noctua Chromax NF-A12x15 Black (having 15mm, instead of 25mm, is overall better cooling solution as exhaust airflow is noticeably smoother)
On software side, I installed excellent "Fan Control" (as already stated in my Cerberus-X log, I'm definitely recommending this tool).
I'm using Fan Control only to manage Fans connected to the motherboard.
As RTX 3090 FE passive mode could be only reached while using firmware control, I'm using allmighty MSI Afterburner to do so :
On the PSU side, SX800 LTI fan is only spinning while the load is reaching 160W.
At worst case, CPU fan is starting spinning at around 300 rpm...completely inaudible (fan start & stop are inaudible on Noctua)
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#7 : Fans setup (14th November 2022)
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In order to complete my N-ATX v2 setup, here are all fans setup (motherboard, bios, Fan control & RTX 3090 FE)
N-ATX v2 Fan Setup for Bios :
N-ATX v2 Fan Setup for Fan Control (Semi Passive mode) :
RTX 3090 FE Fans setup for MSI Afterburner :
Thus am I reaching full passive mode in N-ATX v2? YES! Here is the proof!
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#8 : Side Panel Screw issue (20th November 2022)
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The thread of the back/front side panel damage has increased as I'm keeping opening/closing the case to do further hardware changes. Thus I was forced to switch once again to a longer screw.
This time I used an M3x20 screw to make sure the full length of thread.
In the worst case, if the thread is completely damaged I will be able to use an M3 nut to secure the panel.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#9 : Changing GPU (20th November 2022)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a temporary solution (time to find a worthy successor of my RTX 3090 FE in my Cerberus-X), I switched back to my MSI GTX 1080 Ti.
As both RTX 3090 FE & MSI GTX 1080ti have similar thickness (2.75 slots vs 2.50 slot), the process was pretty easy and quick. (8 screws in total, including panels ones)
I tested PCIe bandwidth, leading to same result as on RTX 3090 FE, ie 13GB/s
In terms of performance/cooling, N-ATX v2 proved to be also really good while using GPU with pure axial fans and solid back plate (MSI GTX 1080 ti) as it is while using GPU with passthrough cooling (RTX 3090 FE). I compared its performance using 3DMark Timespy (1440p) versus 2017 score from original Cerberus-X (AMD R7 1700X + MSI GTX 1080ti)
Look at the CPU score, it improved by 30%! It was done using the same RAM & Motherboard! The AM4 platform was really impressive in terms of future proofing!
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#10 : Performance benchmarking vs Cerberus-X (20th November 2022)
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Now it is to compare performance Cerberus-X (2017) vs N-ATX v2 (2022)!
Let's start by setups comparison :
I skipped PCIe bandwidth as Asus C6H is limiting everything to Gen 3, i.e. 16GB/s theoretically (13GB/s in practice).
Regarding TimeSpy (1440p benchmark), here are results :
As expected, Intel Core i5 12600K (OC) is +20% ahead vs R7 5800X (PBO2 OC only).
It is also important to note that RTX 3090 FE scores are pretty close all together (0.7% gap).
Now it is time for gaming comparison, using opening scenes from "A Plague Tale : Requiem"!
Here is comparison :
- RTX 3090 FE:
- Core Temperature : 66°C-67°C (equal, within margin of error)
- GDDR6X : 100°C-102°C (Peaks only) (equal, within margin of error)
- Filtered GPU Intake Fans : 1100-1250rpm in Cerberus-X vs None in N-ATX v2
- CPU : 52-55°C for 50W load (equal at that power load)
Conclusion?
- GPU Cooling:
- N-ATX v2 & Cerberus-X have completely similar GPU cooling capabilities, with a slight advantage on noise for N-ATX v2 due to of absence of filtered intake fans
- CPU Cooling:
- At lower CPU power load (50W), N-ATXv2 & Cerberus-X cooling performance is equal
- At higher CPU power load (75W+), N-ATXv2 is behind Cerberus-X, due to CPU heatsink & fan size
- Both Cerberus-X & N-ATXv2 are capable of semi-passive cooling (0 rpm fan speed at low load)
Overall, N-ATX v2 is an excellent case, on par with Cerberus-X regarding GPU cooling, with less noise and additional dust.
I've only 2 remaining factors to test :
- Durability :
- Cerberus-X is built like a tank...already 5.5 years of pretty active assembly/disassembly with no issues!
- N-ATX v2 is showing some weakness, especially on side panel/stand assembly/disassembly, but due to its fully modular approach, any part could be replaced...so let's see!
- Cat magnet:
- Cerberus-X has proven many times its cat magnet powers!
- N-ATXv2 is too narrow to sit/sleep! Only way to interact with it is to make it fall!..
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#11 : N-ATXv2 meets Nvidia RTX 4080 FE (27th November 2022)
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To be honest, the current discrete GPU market is weird. After 2 years of crypto-mania, "new" previous GPUs are, at last, at their MSRP in USD, approximately. However, the USD/EUR FX rate collapsed also (from 1.20 USD/EUR to 1.00 USD/EUR approx)...thus all GPUs prices in Europe are now +20% more expensive than previously...
I also looked at the second hand market...finding RTX 3090 FE at approx 1000 euros.
Here is a summary :
- RTX 3080 : 949€ new
- RTX 3090 FE : 900€ second hand
- RTX 3080 ti : 1099€ new
- RTX 3090 ti : 1329€ new
RDNA3 are promising but their quantity (very few expected in 2023), their prices (1200€ expected) and their announced "average" RT performance (somewhere below RTX 3000 series) led me to another dead end.
Overall my initial GPU budget was around 1000€.
At last, as I'm still in the SFF world with N-ATXv2 and Cerberus-X, the GPU dimensions were also vital.
I put all those constraints in my head mixer and get to the conclusion to get an Nvidia RTX 4080 Founder's Edition for 1469€.
- Budget was largely increased by almost 50%, but alternatives were not great for my money as my reference point remains RTX 3090 FE.
- RTX 4080 FE is definitely more powerful and more power efficient than my RTX 3090 FE
- Why the Founder's Edition? Very simple : this is the only compatible (just barely) in size with my Cerberus-X
And now comparison vs MSI GTX 1080 ti (almost same TDP..
), 5.5 years between them :
Overall, the biggest constraint to fit RTX 4080 FE in N-ATXv2 (and Cerberus-X, more to come on my thread log) was this "new", "bulky" ATX 3 PCIe 5.0 connector!
Its orientation is straight vertical (vs angled orientation on RTX 3090 FE) and the female connector of the provided adapter is not really flexible. I'll look at replacing it pretty quickly, especially for Cerberus-X.
Hopefully in N-ATXv2, managing a clean routing of this PCIe 5.0 adapter was pretty easy (above RAM).
Now it is time to power it on!
Somehow I was lucky to start using my RTX 4080 FE with my Asus C6H (Crosshair Hero VI) as I did not experience any "black screen" bug. However I was forced anyway to make a fresh install of drivers.
PS : For info, with my Asus Z690 MB, I was unable to see bios booting...leading to black screen bug. Hopefully I was able to reach Windows (after some hard reboots). I was able to flash RTX 4080 FE firmware. (https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5411/?=&linkId=100000163736896). Now it is working like a charm.
Here are interesting photos, illustrating semi-passive mode. Computer is ON and all fans are stopped.
What about RTX 4080 FE performance?
Well, in order not to spoil too much, I will share some results on 3DMark :
- Cooling Performance : RTX 4080 FE : I managed to get "Cool under pressure" achievement on 3DMark :
- DirectX 12 (Rastering) : RTX 4080 FE : Here are TimeSpy results (GTX 1080 ti vs RTX 3090 vs RTX 4080), all done in N-ATXv2
- Ray Tracing : RTX 4080 FE : Port Royal benchmark comparing RTX 3090 vs RTX 4080
Obviously, more to come quickly..
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SFF Time N-ATX v2 Build Log#12 : N-ATXv2 Front Face replacement & C6H Wifi 6 (12th February 2023)
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Today was dedicated to the maintenance of my STTIME N-ATXv2 and my Asus Crosshair Hero VI.
- N-ATX v2 : replace front panel with damaged screw thread
- Asus C6H : Add M.2 Key-E Wifi 6 802.11ax card (Intel AX210NGW)
To replace the N-ATX v2 front panel, it is required to remove at minimum :
- GPU (you can leave in place the GPU bracket)
- PSU
- Front cover
- 50% of the screws of the back fan
One noticeable change on my new part was the absence of tape near damaged thread:
Regarding update of my Asus C6H, it was pretty tricky to take photos (not enough hands..
), but here is process steps :- Asus C6H has a M2 Key E slot beneath i/o cover, empty on my version (historically a second version of this MB was released, just adding wifi)
- Target was simply to apply this Wifi kit on my C6H, using i/o backplate as antenna holder :
- Process is pretty simple & straight forward, but requires my two hands most of the time :
- Assemble wifi antenna screws in the i/o Motherboard backplate
- Remove 3 screws beneath the motherboard, holding the rear i/o plastic cover (be careful of RGB cable)
- Plug the M.2 key E wifi card in the empty slot
- Arrange antenna wires within the rear i/o plastic cover
- Put the rear i/o backplate in position on the motherboard
- Flip the motherboard and put back all 3 screws
- Put the Motherboard and its i/o backplate in the case and put back all the motherboard screws
In terms of network speed, well, we are very closed to 1 gigabit ethernet transfer speed & latency : (Maximum bandwidth is 1000 Mbps download and 500 Mbps upload)
Let's finish with some photos of the final build :
Conclusion :
- The maintenance of the SFFTime N-ATX v2 was simple & easy to operate
- Thanks to its modularity, it is clearly possible to replace only the faulty part (cost effective & simply efficient!)
- Asus C6H demonstrates, one more time, its capacities (it is a 6 years old motherboard!)
PS : I also tested another front usb-c extension, but I face similar strange behaviors (working with my external SSD, but failing to transfer more than 2 photos in a row with my phone..
). Thus it should be a compatibility/software issue, but it is completely fine for my personal case.PS : I used M3x6mm screws to secure the side panels (default are 5mm)
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