Log SMALLEST ATX CASE : CERBERUS-X (Complete build log)

[MarcParis]

Just noticed Asus released a new bios (7304) for C6H that fixes RAM issues of zen 2 processor..
Already applied it...now it's time to know if I will be able to wait for R9 3900X or just go for R7 3700X..

 

[Allhopeforhumanity]

Just noticed Asus released a new bios (7304) for C6H that fixes RAM issues of zen 2 processor..
Already applied it...now it's time to know if I will be able to wait for R9 3900X or just go for R7 3700X..

I'd be curious to know if Asus has fixed the odd boosting behaviour I've seen on some x470/570 boards. Thus far I've only seen tests done on MSI godlikes and Auoros master boards, likely because all of the major YouTubers got them in their review package.

 

[TheHig]

It’s all your fault Marc! ?

Seriously though since parting out my Ryzen box in preparation I was sold on the 3900x. Props for the board recommendation. Busy camping with the kids this weekend but hopefully get to test it all soon.

 

[MarcParis]

I'd be curious to know if Asus has fixed the odd boosting behaviour I've seen on some x470/570 boards. Thus far I've only seen tests done on MSI godlikes and Auoros master boards, likely because all of the major YouTubers got them in their review package.

Yes ASUS faced a bios bug for all zen 2 bios. However they managed to come back now.

It’s all your fault Marc! ?

Seriously though since parting out my Ryzen box in preparation I was sold on the 3900x. Props for the board recommendation. Busy camping with the kids this weekend but hopefully get to test it all soon.

Ah ahah...i’m sorry....i’m a bit jealous as you have your r9 3900x...
I would like to know what is required to cool it properly.

 

[TheHig]

Microcenter restocked last night here. I was able to grab one on my lunch break. Hopefully soon for you as well!
On cooling,
I’ll use the stock cooler for post test / windows install and baseline readings. Plan is to rebuild my custom loop or go easy mode with a new AIO. If I do go custom it will be the CPU only. Full water is fun but the GPUs I have on hand are not waterblocked. Plus swapping parts is easy maneuvering around just the CPU loop.

 

[MarcParis]

Microcenter restocked last night here. I was able to grab one on my lunch break. Hopefully soon for you as well!
On cooling,
I’ll use the stock cooler for post test / windows install and baseline readings. Plan is to rebuild my custom loop or go easy mode with a new AIO. If I do go custom it will be the CPU only. Full water is fun but the GPUs I have on hand are not waterblocked. Plus swapping parts is easy maneuvering around just the CPU loop.

Lucky you...
R9 3900x shortage in EU is just horrible.

 

[MarcParis]

After long thoughts (again), i’m now aiming to ryzen 7 3800x.

Here is why :

• I don’t really need 12/24, as my main activity remains 4k60 gaming. Zen 2 should improve overall experience and 1% low frame time.
• I could go for r7 3700x, especially as media who reviewed r7 3800x show marginal gains vs r7 3700x...however r7 3700x press samples seems to be good/lucky samples. Knowing my luck on silicon lottery, I prefer to choose safest path with r7 3800x.

My main plan is to stick on my x370 crosshair vi hero. If ever it’s not working, i’ll go for x570 aorus élite as backup...

I keep you informed

 

[rfarmer]

After long thoughts (again), i’m now aiming to ryzen 7 3800x.

Here is why :

• I don’t really need 12/24, as my main activity remains 4k60 gaming. Zen 2 should improve overall experience and 1% low frame time.
• I could go for r7 3700x, especially as media who reviewed r7 3800x show marginal gains vs r7 3700x...however r7 3700x press samples seems to be good/lucky samples. Knowing my luck on silicon lottery, I prefer to choose safest path with r7 3800x.

My main plan is to stick on my x370 crosshair vi hero. If ever it’s not working, i’ll go for x570 aorus élite as backup...

I keep you informed

Nice, so are you able to get the 3800x now?

 

[MarcParis]

Nice, so are you able to get the 3800x now?

Yes. Only r9 3900x is not available currently in EU. All other zen 2 SKU are ok

 

[MarcParis]

and...for once...no change to the plan (it was difficult)...
Ryzen 7 3800X just ordered..

 

[MarcParis]

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Update 9th August 2019 : Zen 2 Ryzen 7 3800X & a lot of changes
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With arrival of zen 2 processor, I've finally made up my mind to switch my Ryzen 7 1700X with a Ryzen 7 3800X, keeping the same motherboard, Asus Crosshair VI Hero (X370 Chipset).

Several factors influenced this choice, but the main one is simple : I just realized lately that this crosshair VI hero has awesome features..

• AUDIO : I own a pair of speakers gigaworks t20 since more than 10 years. I always thought they were quite BS as I always plugged/used them with motherboard audio (mostly mini ITX boards)...since I watched this video :
  
  I was shocked as my speakers sound so badly. I just understood that my speakers were simply badly driven...just a decade after buying them... I plugged them to the C6H...and I was astonished how well they sounded. Afterwards I look at C6H specs and it appears it has a very good DAC ESS® ES9023P.
  I'm a bit ashamed especially I love my home cinema setup (marantz amplifier and klipsch speakers)...anyway, from now, I need a good DAC for my audio..
  
  
• FAN XPERT 4 : I already tried Asus fan management software back in 2013, 2015 and 2017. Back in 2017, due to R7 1700X temperature offset and awkward temperature monitoring (mainly due to AMD), I switched to Corsair Commander mini to control all my fans. However since 2017, both AMD & ASUS improved and Fan Xpert 4 (even bios setup) is quite pretty good.
  
  
  
  
  Best feature is to link a fan to up to 3 temperatures (either in Bios or in Fan Xpert). Thus for my setup, I put all case fans linked to CPU & PCH (chipset temperature). Tweak is that PCH temperature is directly related to my GPU temperature as it's blowing hot air on Chipset.. Basically as soon as my cpu or my gpu is on load, fans are cooling everything....and at idle, fans can be turned off...

Let go back to my update.

Here is a list of what has been done :

• With Ryzen 7 1700X, update C6H motherboard to Bios 7304 (lastest release)
• Replace Ryzen 7 1700X with Ryzen 7 3800X (no bios update to keep best Agesa so far, 1.0.0.2)
• Remove Front usb 3.0 extension cable. I replace it with an usb 3.0 hub from my keyboard passthrough. More useful in practice, and save a lot of internal space inside Cerberus-X
• Drain, clean, refill my customed AIO (Apogee Drive II and MCR 220 radiator/reservoir combo)
• Replace all Gentle Typhoon AP60 to Noctua NF A12x25. Use full frame grommet on radiator. (by the way, now all my fans are from Noctua..)
• Remove Corsair commander mini as it's replaced by Bios and Fan Xpert
• Replace Startech expansion card PEX2M2 with integrated Asmedia pcie/sata controller to Startech expansion card PEXM2SAT32N1 that hold 2 sata and 1 pcie 3.0 4x m.2 slots with 20 cm sata cable. This saves around 10-15sec on bios boot as there is no additional controller to handle. On top of that, it's also better for gpu cooling as new expansion card is smaller, by far.
  
  
  
• Please note than windows 10 is booting after CPU replacement...however it's far from being perfect. Thus I decided to RESET Windows 10 (good news, my licence is still valid)

In terms of performance, I'm simply amazed by Zen 2, Ryzen 7 3800X. Even with my older X370 C6H, it's boosting like a champion!
Here what I experience (stock with RAM XMP profile 3200 CAS 14 loaded) :

• 2 threads : 4.516Ghz
• Gaming (Shadow of the tomb raider, World of Tanks) : just above 4.3Ghz
• Cinebench R20 (all threads) : 4.12Ghz

Basically everything is noticeably faster compared to my former Ryzen 7 1700X : bios boot, windows load, etc...
In my standard usage, CPU is sitting between 4.3 and 4.5Ghz...simply perfect (especially without manual OC)

I've tried to OC RAM and FCLK to 3800Mhz and 1900Mhz. It boots on windows (but it was not perfectly stable)...but I didn't have time right now to tweak more.

Last MAJOR update is NOISE.
My DDC pump (apogee drive II) is spinning at 1200rpm and all others fans are around 200-300 rpm (or even stopped) on idle/low load...almost fanless mode... clearly inaudible/silent. On my previous, Gentlye Typhoon AP60 fans were unable to go lower than 900rpm...not too noisy but not silent.
Even on load, noise remains low as CPU is not OC (not really need it anyway).

At the end, I'm very pleased with my current update...already thinking to my next move..

Here is a gallery of pictures of my build :

 

[MarcParis]

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When watercooling is failing...back to air cooling (Update : 18th August 2019)
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10 days after my update here is news...bad and good...

Let's start with the bad (could be extremely lucky, depending of point of view..) :
My computer froze completely on Saturday. I was unable to reset/turnoff (pressing and holding power button for 5secs). It required a full disconnection from wall.
When I powered again the computer, bios didn't post...it was blocked on C5 code (meaning RAM issues).
I tried to boot on 1 stick and it works just fine. I tested both ram sticks and all were fine...However it was impossible to boot with 2 sticks on the same time (even with CMOS or bios flash) weird...
It could be either motherboard or CPU.

Thus I replaced my R7 3800x by my R7 1700X...and it works.

BUT while doing this operation, I noticed some red spots on one corner of MB cpu socket and CPU itself! WTF!

I better looked at Apogee drive II and I noticed 1 or 2 drops of liquid on waterblock...how was it possible?!

I dried, cleaned red liquid drops with paper towels on both MB & R7 3800X several times. It took 3 attempts and my system was back to life with 2 RAM sticks connected! (Tested for hours successfully since)

It's a bad news because it's meaning that my apogee drive II is OVER, but I'm very lucky as I didn't lost either CPU or MB.

Also I wanted to highlight that Zen 2 CPU boost speed is not linked to AGESA at all. I've moved to Agesa 1.0.0.3AB and my boost clock are still completely fine (ie 4.5Ghz on low thread, 4.3Ghz on standard workload, 4.12Ghz on all threads workloads)

Thus I moved to Noctua C14S as CPU cooler (still need to improve thermal paste as I ran out of Kyonaut...now It's a mix of noctua NT-H1 and EK tim...I'll move to Noctua NT-H2 soon)

My setup is still very silent (after redoing all my fan setup). Here are the changes vs Apogee Drive II setup :

• I lost around 25-50Mhz on mid-high cpu load (4.250~4.300Ghz on typical workload instead of 4.300-4.350Ghz with Apogee Drive II)
• On all cores/threads loads (Da Vinci Resolve 16) R7 3800X is hitting 80°C witrh Noctua C14S versus 75°C approx. NF-A14 is a little bit louder on load...but not much...and my setup is still very silent on low load/idle
• Best news : GTX 1080ti Temperature has decreased by around 8-10°C, leading to lower noise also during gaming workload (already noticed back to August 2017)
• Good news : Without bottom radiator, I've put my M.2 extension card on PCI 2.0 4x slot...that means I can easily add another nvme m.2 ssd..

Here are some pictures :

 

[rfarmer]

Shame about the Apogee, glad the CPU and motherboard are all good. How old was the Apogee? I am currently using one and hope it doesn't die on me.

 

[MarcParis]

Shame about the Apogee, glad the CPU and motherboard are all good. How old was the Apogee? I am currently using one and hope it doesn't die on me.

Well my apogee drive is from 2013-2014. (Bought it used, as it was no longer in europe).

On the other hand, I didn’t find origin of the leak... I didn’t open it to see if there was any damage on O ring seal.
Weird thing is that I was sometimes smelling some overheats since I move to ryzen 73800x, but without finding exact origin of it. Maybe it was internal pump, but not sure, as I was monitoring cpu temp and pump speed all the time.

I don’t know what happened really.

 

[MarcParis]

just added cpu picture (it was supposed to be in my original message) :

 

[MarcParis]

For information I've just played with my RAM and FCLK..

I'm currently reaching a stable 1900Mhz FCLK (infinity fabric speed) with my RAM (1:1 ratio) at 3800Mhz 18-18-18-18-36.

I noticed slight performance improvement on heavily threaded task.

I'll keep you informed!

 

[paulesko]

Are you using b die? you can tight those timings a bit more I guess. I´m using micron rev E and at lower timings with 1.5v on them so your ram should do better than mine.

 

[MarcParis]

Are you using b die? you can tight those timings a bit more I guess. I´m using micron rev E and at lower timings with 1.5v on them so your ram should do better than mine.

well I've flare-X with b-die from Samsung.

I'm at 1.5v and i tried 3800Mhz 16-16-16-16-36 but i got some mistake on memtest.

I never achieved DRAM calculator settings (even safe)...subtimings are always too tough for my sticks

ps : I'll continue to play with RAM/FCLK settings..

 

[MarcParis]

After several trials, here RAM parameters I'm able to get on my setup (R7 3800X, Asus Crosshair VI Hero, Flare-X 2x8Go 3200MT/s 14-14-14-14-34 @1.35v) :

Those parameters are still on validation (it's taking ages to validate..)
Here are some membench (from DRAM calculator) scores : (vs XMP profile @3200 14-14-14-14-34, vs @3800 18-18-18-18-36

 

[MarcParis]

After watching this video I received confirmation that R7 3800x is a better chip on average compared to R7 3700X.

This inspired me to try overclocking my chip.
At stock, either by watercooling or aircooling, I was able to get 4,1 Ghz on all cores with a vcore of 1,395v...not impressive, especially versus 4,3 Ghz @1,30v..

But I started to know what maximum OC I can get with my setup.
I limited myself to 1,4v as vcore as maximum.
Cinebench is a good first test to check OC stability...but it's far from being enough.

• Trial #1 : 4,45Ghz @1,4v : successful boot, but full crash of windows on Cinebench R20
• Trial #2 : 4,4Ghz @1,4v : successful boot, but Cinebench R20 crashed...progress from 4,5Ghz with full crash
• Trial #3 : 4,375Ghz @1,4v : successful boot, Cinebench R20 scored 5143 points! but CPU reached 96°C..
• Trial #4 : 4,3Ghz @1,3v : successful boot, Cinebench R20 scored 5046 points (CPU reached 84°C). Idle cpu power usage is 8w (vs 2w in stock)
• Trial #5 : 4,325Ghz @1,3v : successful boot, Cinebench R20 scored 5085 points (CPU reached 84°C). Idle cpu power usage is 8w (vs 2w in stock)
• Trial #6 : 4,375Ghz @1,35v : successful boot, Cinebench R20 crashed

After those tests I tested 4,3Ghz @1,3v and 4,325Ghz @1,3v with Assassin creed odyssey (a pretty good game to test CPU)...however both setup led to game crash (not BSOD or PC crashed).

Then I finally decided to test 4,3Ghz @1,31v...and launched some Intel Burn test (best software to fully validate both CPU & RAM OC : target is to finish calculation without any material issues detected on HWinfo64)

Here is the result with maximum setup...test took 4416 sec..

At the end of the day, here is my Overclocking setup :

• Ryzen 7 3800X : 4,3Ghz @1,31v
• FCLK : 1900Mhz
• G-Skill Flare-X : 3800MT/S with timings 16-17-15-15-30 (no play with lower sub timings as it leads to instability) @1,48v
• Asus Crosshair VI Hero : Bios 7304 (bios 7306 & 7403 led to cold boot issues)

I'm pretty happy with my setup...and i definitely cannot resist to play with overclocking...