Log SMALLEST ATX CASE : CERBERUS-X (Complete build log)

[Allhopeforhumanity]

Well MSI X570 is offering same intel nic (211AT) as all competitors + 2.5gbits realtek as all competitors at similar price range (I will test if it makes any differences)
I appreciate MSI X570 ACE I/O as it's not using additional chip that requires additional time to boot. X570 + Ryzen 3000 are offering a pretty good I/O.
MSI X570 ACE VRM are pretty strong...anyway even Ryzen 9 3950X won't use more than 384w on load.. We don't need level of crasy VRM of top end of intel X299 or Threadripper that can exceed this limit of 384W (equal to 1x8 pins cpu connector)

But anyway, best feature of MSI X570 ACE is this zero frozr feature (semi-passive cooling) on X570 chipset.

Maybe I was mistaken then, I thought that the MSI X570s were 2X realtek (Killer) nics from the spec sheets that I saw. If that do have at least 1 intel, that would alleviate some of my worry. I just know that on my current Z97 gigabyte board that has both an intel and a realtek nic, that the intel one has about 100 mbps higher bandwidth on the same connection and better packet prioritization. Realtek may have solved that issue on newer chipsets, but I've only bought boards with intel nics since as a result.

I'm not sure that I agree with you on the VRM standpoint. Sure the Ryzen package wont be pushing threadripper levels of power, certainly not like the 32 core variety, but the less concentrated heat, particularly in SFF chassis that don't usually have direct air flow over the VRM area, can be a significant boon in clock stability and vdroop mitigation.

 

[MarcParis]

Maybe I was mistaken then, I thought that the MSI X570s were 2X realtek (Killer) nics from the spec sheets that I saw. If that do have at least 1 intel, that would alleviate some of my worry. I just know that on my current Z97 gigabyte board that has both an intel and a realtek nic, that the intel one has about 100 mbps higher bandwidth on the same connection and better packet prioritization. Realtek may have solved that issue on newer chipsets, but I've only bought boards with intel nics since as a result.

I'm not sure that I agree with you on the VRM standpoint. Sure the Ryzen package wont be pushing threadripper levels of power, certainly not like the 32 core variety, but the less concentrated heat, particularly in SFF chassis that don't usually have direct air flow over the VRM area, can be a significant boon in clock stability and vdroop mitigation.

For network, I fully agree comparing entry base realtek vs intel chips. I'll surely compare this high end realtek 2.5Gbps vs intel 211 1gbps..

For VRM, well, here is a very interesting video for X570 ACE from Gamer Nexus (they like analysing board VRM..)...to be honest, no issue on this X570 MSI ACE :

 

[Allhopeforhumanity]

For VRM, well, here is a very interesting video for X570 ACE from Gamer Nexus (they like analysing board VRM..)...to be honest, no issue on this X570 MSI ACE :

For sure, Buildzoid definitely loves his VRM analysis. I'm sure that just about all of the ATX boards will be totally sufficient in their VRM capacity to push Ryzen 2, just that what I've seen out of Gigabyte and Asus were more robust in their # of phases and in some cases better transient responses (from the mosfet data sheets).

Hell for all I know though, these points might be totally meaningless for the zen2 microarch, as I haven't gotten my hands on it yet, nor seen a compelling analysis of clocks vs voltage vs VRM temp over time comparing the boards. My comment was mostly based on my experience with X58 -> Z370 and the limitations power delivery had on certain CPUs on those chipsets. Upon further research Zen2 doesn't seem to particularly like manual overvolting/clocking; most people look to have gotten the most out of their chips by undervolting and just letting the boost algorithm do the work. The ACE looks like it will work pretty well given the additional info and based on that video.

Anyway, looking forward to your results and how it performs in the cerberus ?

 

[MarcParis]

For sure, Buildzoid definitely loves his VRM analysis. I'm sure that just about all of the ATX boards will be totally sufficient in their VRM capacity to push Ryzen 2, just that what I've seen out of Gigabyte and Asus were more robust in their # of phases and in some cases better transient responses (from the mosfet data sheets).

Hell for all I know though, these points might be totally meaningless for the zen2 microarch, as I haven't gotten my hands on it yet, nor seen a compelling analysis of clocks vs voltage vs VRM temp over time comparing the boards. My comment was mostly based on my experience with X58 -> Z370 and the limitations power delivery had on certain CPUs on those chipsets. Upon further research Zen2 doesn't seem to particularly like manual overvolting/clocking; most people look to have gotten the most out of their chips by undervolting and just letting the boost algorithm do the work. The ACE looks like it will work pretty well given the additional info and based on that video.

Anyway, looking forward to your results and how it performs in the cerberus ?

Thanks a lot.
To be honest, VRM vastly improved recently (after scandal of overheating x299 vrm).
Z390 and now x570 mb show better vrm in general

 

[MarcParis]

Catastrophe...ryzen 9 3900x not available till mid August at best...
Shortage is real...

 

[TheHig]

I feel ya. Figured to run this x79 pro all the way to Cyberpunk release and go for some spring sales next year since they are nowhere to be found... Gives time for the bios to gel as well.

Who am I kidding --likely to cave as soon as Microcenter restocks..lol. Hopefully you get one soon. Look forward to your updates here.

 

[MarcParis]

I feel ya. Figured to run this x79 pro all the way to Cyberpunk release and go for some spring sales next year since they are nowhere to be found... Gives time for the bios to gel as well.

Who am I kidding --likely to cave as soon as Microcenter restocks..lol. Hopefully you get one soon. Look forward to your updates here.

I’ll keep you informed for sure.
I’m thinking to other scenario, like taking an r7 3700x/3800x...or postpone everything

 

[MarcParis]

For sure, Buildzoid definitely loves his VRM analysis. I'm sure that just about all of the ATX boards will be totally sufficient in their VRM capacity to push Ryzen 2, just that what I've seen out of Gigabyte and Asus were more robust in their # of phases and in some cases better transient responses (from the mosfet data sheets).

Hell for all I know though, these points might be totally meaningless for the zen2 microarch, as I haven't gotten my hands on it yet, nor seen a compelling analysis of clocks vs voltage vs VRM temp over time comparing the boards. My comment was mostly based on my experience with X58 -> Z370 and the limitations power delivery had on certain CPUs on those chipsets. Upon further research Zen2 doesn't seem to particularly like manual overvolting/clocking; most people look to have gotten the most out of their chips by undervolting and just letting the boost algorithm do the work. The ACE looks like it will work pretty well given the additional info and based on that video.

Anyway, looking forward to your results and how it performs in the cerberus ?

I’ve just studied z390 mb..and you are right...on this z390 chipset, msi boards have killer nic.
By the way, if I was supposed to move back to intel z390, i’ll choose aoriste master mb..

 

[TheHig]

We have systems but if someone is building new right now—9900k and a good board like the Taichi is actually cheaper than the 3900x and equivalent board. And available... Here at least.
My biggest gripe with this is obviously the silicone level security flaws that won’t be dealt with till next gen Intel CPUs.

 

[Allhopeforhumanity]

We have systems but if someone is building new right now—9900k and a good board like the Taichi is actually cheaper than the 3900x and equivalent board. And available... Here at least.
My biggest gripe with this is obviously the silicone level security flaws that won’t be dealt with till next gen Intel CPUs.

Silicone; do i9's come with breast augmentation these days ?? But yeah, 9900k and 3900x are fairly close in price here too all said and done. The biggest issue is keeping the 9900k cool in an SFF configuration without hardlocking the power target really low.

I’ve just studied z390 mb..and you are right...on this z390 chipset, msi boards have killer nic.
By the way, if I was supposed to move back to intel z390, i’ll choose aoriste master mb..

Weird right? Intel chipest -> realtek nic, but amd chipset -> intel nic...

 

[TheHig]

Silicon... Mobile FTW! I should be working right now anyway lol.

Ultimately will hold for an AMD build and as Marc states the 3700x is a solid option. Honestly totally fine for my needs but the allure of the 3900x is strong. Coming off a 2600 so to be worth it looking to go bigger but again the 3700x makes sense as well. -Internal debate rages on right!?

 

[Allhopeforhumanity]

Silicon... Mobile FTW! I should be working right now anyway lol.

Ultimately will hold for an AMD build and as Marc states the 3700x is a solid option. Honestly totally fine for my needs but the allure of the 3900x is strong. Coming off a 2600 so to be worth it looking to go bigger but again the 3700x makes sense as well. -Internal debate rages on right!?

Haha autocorrect gets me too often to admit.

My internal debate has been going strong for years, mostly due to my many use cases: Do I want to upgrade my primary gaming rig, my home lab or my HTPC next?.. First world problems to be sure.

 

[MarcParis]

Silicon... Mobile FTW! I should be working right now anyway lol.

Ultimately will hold for an AMD build and as Marc states the 3700x is a solid option. Honestly totally fine for my needs but the allure of the 3900x is strong. Coming off a 2600 so to be worth it looking to go bigger but again the 3700x makes sense as well. -Internal debate rages on right!?

Haha autocorrect gets me too often to admit.

My internal debate has been going strong for years, mostly due to my many use cases: Do I want to upgrade my primary gaming rig, my home lab or my HTPC next?.. First world problems to be sure.

To be honest, my toughts are getting clearer and clearer.

Right now, most future proof platform remains X570 (pcie 4.0 for next gen GPU and/or SSD).
However for X570, I can't go below R9 3900X as R7 3700X/3800X is beaten by core i9 9900K, on 8 cores chips.
At last I can't go for core i9 9900k due to "oldish" Z390 chipset, requiring additional chip to handle i/o.

Thus, it's either I wait for R9 3900X or I cancel all the upgrade for now.

 

[MarcParis]

After long thoughts, I made up my mind : it will be Ryzen 9 3900X and msi x570 ace...and I need to be patient...I guess it won’t be before September.

 

[Allhopeforhumanity]

After long thoughts, I made up my mind : it will be Ryzen 9 3900X and msi x570 ace...and I need to be patient...I guess it won’t be before September.

Depending on where you are, I've seen new shipments of Zen2 chips pop up over the past week at a few different vendors, so maybe it won't be as long as you think.

 

[MarcParis]

Depending on where you are, I've seen new shipments of Zen2 chips pop up over the past week at a few different vendors, so maybe it won't be as long as you think.

I’m from France. No vendors has any r9 3900x. I’ve also checked Germany.
At least AMD conceded today that they struggle to provide enough zen 2 processor..

Fingers crossed

 

[TheHig]

Newegg has been getting the 3900x here and there. I got a notification today. Shipping one to you may be possible. Not sure if the cost is worth it or just waiting it out.

Edit: totally missed out which I expected really. It had been almost 20 minutes before I saw it and hit the link to buy.

 

[MarcParis]

Newegg has been getting the 3900x here and there. I got a notification today. Shipping one to you may be possible. Not sure if the cost is worth it or just waiting it out.

Edit: totally missed out which I expected really. It had been almost 20 minutes before I saw it and hit the link to buy.

ahah, it won't be worth the transit from US.. I'll be patient..

Do you mean you bought one R9 3900X for yourself?..

 

[TheHig]

Out of stock by the time I saw the notification. Waiting here too. Honestly don’t mind as teething issues are being worked out. Current systems at home do everything I need so this is just about the indulgence for me anyway.

 

[MarcParis]

Well, well..

Finally waiting for R9 3900X is good for clearing my thoughts..

I just realized that the only component i want is the R9 3900X...I don't really care of X570 MB.
Thus I've decided to upgrade my current setup, anticipating arrival of R9 3900X (and proper bios update of my sweet C6H..).
If everything goes right, it should improve booting time by 15 sec (time for my expansion card startech PEX2M2 to load my 2 m.2 sata ssd).