Log SMALLEST ATX CASE : CERBERUS-X (Complete build log)

[MarcParis]

Keep the faith...Cerberus-x is just weeks away..

 

[Taswegian]

Really?!?!? That's great, I guess I'm returning the crappy Thermaltake G3 that's currently somewhere between Amazon and me.

Travelling to Australia in mid December so I have some time to get this done but don't want to cut things close.

 

[MarcParis]

Ahah, you are not the first one to have considered g3 as temporary substitute of cerberus-x..
Please follow message from @PlayfulPhoenix on main cerberus thread..

 

[MarcParis]

News on Ryzen.

Apparently, (very) low latency is helping Ryzen performance in game...well I'll give it a try as I have everything on hand (Crosshair Heero Vi, B-dies samsung memory..and Ryzen..)

In this video, R7 1700X @3,9Ghz and very low latency ram is beating core i7 7700K in most games in 1080p.. but with Vega card.

I'll give it a try definitely, with Nvidia GTX1080ti..

 

[MarcParis]

Well, well, well...
I've finally made some additionnal benchmarks based on the video I've posted.
However results led me to opposite direction as expected lol..


First of all, I've updated my bios of my Crosshair VI hero to beta 9920 version. Apart its fine RAM tuning, this bios is famous for removing cold boot issue on ryzen plateform, mainly by doing better ram training...but on b-dies variant mostly..

Thus, 1st good point : now my computer is booting fine even with my RAM OC by defaut at 3200Mhz cas 14-14-14-34...no need to use sleep mode anymore.

However this bios, based on 1501+ release, introduced new management of cpu power that threw all my former overclocking setup in the bin. For example, my overclocking @3900Mhz @1.4375v that was completely stable, cool and quiet in bios 1403 became unstable, hot and noisy in bios 9920 beta.. That's a pity, but all later bios than 1501+ are impacted in the same way.

Whatever, I got enough stability to run some benchmarks on Rise of the Tomb raider, to see impact of cpu, ram speed & latency on gaming performance...and results are quite clear..

I used integrated benchmark in Rise of the Tomb raider, in 1080p, 1440p, 2160p with my Overclocked MSI GTX 1080ti (+117% power limit, +60Mhz gpu clock, +350Mhz vram clock), with Very High details preset and vsync disable. I tried DirectX12 and also some DirectX11 modes.

Here the graphs :

Well, conclusion is pretty straight forward :

• With Nvidia GPU (drivers), there are minimal advantage to overclock cpu or ram clocks/latency. Even in 1080p, gains are existing and minimal (and it's completely useless/stupid/dumb to consider a GTX 1080ti to play in 1080p...). In 1440p and 2160p there are no gains at all!
• As I'm playing only in 2160p limited to 60fps by vsync, there is no advantage for me to overclock my cpu or my RAM (above its default of 3200Mhz cas 14 @1.35v)
• However, my overclocker spirit didacts me to try again next week end to find the sweet spot in overclocking CPU (ie 3.7/3.8Ghz @1.27-1.35v) with RAM overclocked at 3600Mhz cas 16-16-18-16-36 @1.45v

Strange thing is that I did all these benchmarks to maximise my overclocking parameters...but finally I just figured out how useless overclocking could be...so now it's time to go for reasonible overclocking..

Enjoy!

 

[Phuncz]

Overclocking isn't useless, but in that game it's obvious there are other bottlenecks.

 

[MarcParis]

It's not only for this game...it's more a general rule at 1440p+ resolution while using gtx 1080ti...so except you are playing 1080p with gtx 1080ti...overclocking cpu is quite uselee.

In my personal case, playing 4k 60hz, it's completely useless to overclock cpu...and not only for rise of the tomb raider..
That's why it's critical to have a balanced setup, cpu, ram, gpu and screen/monitor..

HOWEVER, i'll check Nvidia fast sync technology to see if it's still true..

 

[MarcParis]

Well i truly need to dig those (very) low latency ram..

 

[TheHig]

Very interesting results in the video. It seems that 3466 VLL was a nice sweet spot with 3.9 on the CPU. The min FPS get a dramatic boost in his tests.

Sadly that ram is just over 200USD right now on NewEgg..

 

[MarcParis]

After i need to reach its value on RAM timings..

 

[Ubermarshall]

Nice build marc, and another good source of ryzen performance crammed into a confined space.
Unrelated to your build, what Wot server are you on? I am on the Sea server, connecting from Australia. Never see a ping below 120ms.

 

[MarcParis]

Thanks.

On wot, i'm on europe server with a ping of 20-30...

 

[MarcParis]

Well I've pushed a little bit further my overclocking on my Ryzen 7 1700X and my Flare-X RAM..

First, instead of lone benchmark, i wanted to reach a stable OC...finally on my Ryzen 7 1700X it will be 3800Mhz @1,375v...not exceptional, just medium....hopefully CPU clock speed is not the only component to influence Ryzen performance..
I must admit that I didn't win silicon lottery with my Ryzen 7 1700X..

In contrast, my G.Skill Flare-X are shinning, thanks to its Samsung b-dies..
I managed to apply to my RAM the (very) low latency @3467Mhz did in its video...and in a stable way..

As most of noticable advantage is in 1080p i ran Rise of the tomb raider, fast sync activated...and look the result..

141,76fps vs 125,84fps (at default cpu and ram standard OC @3200 cas 14), ie +12,6% performance..

I would like to highlight Nvidia Fast sync as a very effective way to use my freesync monitor with my nvidia card...frames are no longer capped (like vsync off) and there is no tearing with great reactivity...really nice!

 

[MarcParis]

Here is my latest news about overclocking my Ryzen setup.

Several topics will be discussed here :

• Optimisation of RAM latency
• CPU oc & RAM stability testing
• Windows Fall Creators Update impact

Back to my trial of RAM optimization, i must admit that very low latency is clearly a double edge sword...on one side, it's improving results on 1080p but computers is running some lag/stutter. Even Intel burn test was succesful...

It took me some time to figure out what was going wrong.

Thanks to HWinfo64, It's showing Windows Hardware Errors...and that's the issue. While Intel burn test is successful, Windows catched some hardware mistake on L1 cache.

I just discoever that my Overclocking @3,9Ghz @1,4375v was generating some hardware errors..

Thus I was forced to step back to 3,85Ghz @1,4375v.

Second point to check : RAM latency.

Memtest86+ or windows ram test are way too cumbersome to use.
I discovered Memtest64 from techpowerup : https://www.techpowerup.com/memtest64/
It works like a charm. I used 30 loops (about 2hours to complete) and it works just fine.

In terms of timings, I managed to get stable RAM at 3467Mhz at 14-15-15-15-34.. Not bad at all.
It tried advanced settings...but it was way too long to optimise (especially as i don't know what are all these timings)

Globally results were ok of RAM & CPU overclocking...not great but not wonderful. (Rise of the tomb raider, 1080p, 132fps vs 125fps, ie 5,6% increase)

Now, what I didn't expect what impact of Windows Falls Creator Update (FCU).. On Creators Update (CU) I desactivated game mode as it was leading to stutter in some games.
To be honest I was not expecting to have huge performance bump..but...but...i got BIG one.. In Rise of the Tomb raider I managed to get a 153fps vs 132fps, ie +16% increase in 1080p! However no gain in 2160p..
I guess windows 10 game mode is focusing computer ressources on games while gaming...putting all others back office tasks in sleep/low activity mode. Thus when a game is CPU bound (like ROTR in 1080p), gaming mode is quite useful..

Here is total graph with all testing :

Enjoy!

 

[MarcParis]

Here is a new update on my benchmarks..

I detected when both my GTX 1080ti and my R7 1700X are in burning mode, GPU is bringing too much heat on CPU cooler to dissipate.

Thus, as my rig is mainly focuses on gaming, i reduced my R7 1700X OC to 3.70Ghz (instead of 3.85Ghz)...but with HUGE vcore drop from 1.4375v to 1.30v...gains in thermal are MASSIVE, and loss in gaming are purely minimal.

In thermals, now i'm around 60°C with fans spinning only at 1200-1300 rpm (cool & quiet, even on load). For information, with OC 3.85Ghz @1.4375v fans were @1850rpm and cpu temperature was 70-75°C.
So huge gains....that's just I didn't win silicon lotery on my R7 1700X.. (some R7 samples are able to reach stable 4.0Ghz @1.35v.. I'm far from it..)

In games, I ran again Rise of the tomb raider in 1080p (to see any changes..because at higher resolution there is no gap between OC 3.70 or 3.85Ghz...even 4.0Ghz or higher..)
Before I was at 153.03fps @3.8Ghz and now I'm at 150.82fps @3.70Ghz.. ie -1.4% loss in 1080p...peanuts!!

Enjoy!

 

[Ubermarshall]

Marc do you have any photos of two 120mm fans mounted outside the front panel?
I want to see if the io cables interfere in the uppermost position, and how much space is available in the bottom area of the front panel.

 

[MarcParis]

You mean like this one?
Sure you can put fan below front i/o cables with no big deal.
Cable of the fan can be routed through the cut like i/o cables.

 

[Ubermarshall]

My plan is for 2x240mm rads, just trying to visualise the clearances.
May load up sketchup later.
Thanks for the photos, they help.

 

[MarcParis]

Dual 240mm radiator is clearly feasible inside cerberus-x. We discussed it a lot a couple of weeks ago.
Difficulty will be :

• Only use single row radiator (30mm thick approx)
• One radiator on front panel with potential slim fan on external
• One radiator on bottom panel
• What about orientation of fans?
  • Both intake : best cooling for cpu and gpu but hot air won’t have a lot of airflow to exit case
  • Both exhaust : worst cooling for cpu/gpu but best cooling for the whole setup
  • Intake on bottom, exhaust on front : to be tested lol
• Worst difficulty? Tubing routing and cable management.

 

[Nanook]

Dual 240mm radiator is clearly feasible inside cerberus-x. We discussed it a lot a couple of weeks ago.
Difficulty will be :

• Only use single row radiator (30mm thick approx)
• One radiator on front panel with potential slim fan on external
• One radiator on bottom panel
• What about orientation of fans?
  • Both intake : best cooling for cpu and gpu but hot air won’t have a lot of airflow to exit case
  • Both exhaust : worst cooling for cpu/gpu but best cooling for the whole setup
  • Intake on bottom, exhaust on front : to be tested lol
• Worst difficulty? Tubing routing and cable management.

Is there a good place for exhaust if using 2x 240 radiators? I’m thinking one way would be to have both sets of fans as intake, and a single exhaust to keep the components that are not heatsinked. Keeping in components such as M.2, motherboard PCH, PSU, etc