"SFF" Keyboards

[ignsvn]

Hmm I can't seem to find a Tada68 board anywhere. I did find a set of keycaps that I'm in love with, but it's a standard 104 key set so it wouldn't work with a 65% layout with the right shift key. Where do you get your keycaps from? Any special place in particular? I've looked at a lot of places, but wanted to know of any other sites. Thanks

Also: what are thoughts on GK64s keyboards/pcbs?

Hmm indeed Tada68 is quite old. Then yeah DZ65 it is. You can find it at KBDFans.

You may also want to check Keychron K6, GK68, or X D 68 (last 2 at KPRepublic)

Note: if you need custom mapping, do check whether they support such feature, and using which firmware.

For keycaps.. usually KBDFans, KPRepublic, AliExpress, Pimp My Keyboard, or Originative. First 3 are Chinese based, relatively cheaper, last 2 are US & Europe based IIRC.

If you have bigger budget & willing to wait, you can enroll in one of the group buys at Geekhack or Deskthority.

 

[duynguyenle]

As a "keyboard snob" where do you get your keycaps? And is lubing switches necessary or just another step to do if you want?

From groupbuys, harvesting caps off OG Cherry G81 and G80 boards, or Wyse terminal boards. At this point I have more than enough keysets in various profiles (Cherry, DSA, SA, A etc...) for my need and rotate them out regularly (variety is the spice of life and all that). Though the enthusiast mechanical hobby is much much more colourful now than when I started cutting my teeth on customs, and there are a lot more sources for good quality keysets compared to back then.

Before you start spending big on expensive keysets, figure out what profile is your personal favourite first (mine is OG cherry, hence the preference for GMK), but this is a point of personal preference. You should try the various options out there and experiment. Keyboard meetups are a great opportunity to try typing of different profiles and figure out what feels good for you (obviously once Coronavirus is under control)

As for your other question, yes I do consider lubing switches an essential part of getting the best typing experience. Another essential part is switch selection (don't use Cherry switches, for example).

 

[duynguyenle]

Hmm indeed Tada68 is quite old. Then yeah DZ65 it is. You can find it at KBDFans.

You may also want to check Keychron K6, GK68, or X D 68 (last 2 at KPRepublic)

Note: if you need custom mapping, do check whether they support such feature, and using which firmware.

For keycaps.. usually KBDFans, KPRepublic, AliExpress, Pimp My Keyboard, or Originative. First 3 are Chinese based, relatively cheaper, last 2 are US & Europe based IIRC.

If you have bigger budget & willing to wait, you can enroll in one of the group buys at Geekhack or Deskthority.

This is incorrect, both PMK and Originative are US-based (PMK is just the retail consumer-facing brand of Signature Plastics, much like how Uniqey is the consumer-facing brand of GMK)

Recently (~last 1-2 year or so) there have been a lot more small/mid-size US and EU-based enthusiast stores that try and keep at least a regularly stocked collection of capsets, if you don't want to start with groubuys, you could always try those storefronts first. In no particular order:

NovelKeys
The Key Company
UKKeycaps
KonoStore
Zfrontier

Of course, if you do want to jump in at the deep end and participate in GBs, you could always do so, it's quite a fun hobby (albeit very expensive at the high end, like most hobbies tend to be).

 

[jmarin]

I appreciate your help and guidance guys. Another question. Is there some place that you can order black key caps with your choice of legend color? PMK has the DSA sets but all the legends are black and I haven't found black keycaps with colored legends outside of specific sets

 

[duynguyenle]

I appreciate your help and guidance guys. Another question. Is there some place that you can order black key caps with your choice of legend color? PMK has the DSA sets but all the legends are black and I haven't found black keycaps with colored legends outside of specific sets

It depends, if you just want shitty OEM profile pad-printed ABS sets, then yes, WASD will do you a full set of standard 104 (full-sized), 87-key (TKL) or 61-key (60%) set with whatever base colour and legend colours you want.

If you want proper double-shot or reverse dye-sub sets (this is the only method to get light legends on dark base colour for dyesub PBT), forget about it (although SA and GMK will happily do custom sets, SA will charge you like 3k for a single-set production run, and GMK has a MOQ of 150 sets for standard GMK colour selections, and 250 if you need custom Pantone colour-matched samples)

TLDR: Yes if you're ok with shitty quality caps, if you aren't, you just have to see what sets are out there.

 

[jmarin]

Out of curiosity, are you against ABS period or just printed OEM style ABS?

 

[duynguyenle]

Out of curiosity, are you against ABS period or just printed OEM style ABS?

No, I like ABS, as per one of my replies above, my personal favourite is double-shot Cherry profile ABS caps (either harvested OG Cherry caps or new production from GMK, they're both produced on the same tooling).

What I dislike with regard to the sets you can get from WASD is the profile (I hate OEM profile), the texture (I can't really explain, but the WASD caps are pretty horrible to touch) and the method of legend printing (pad-print is the worst and not really durable at all, compared to double shot caps where the lettering literally cannot fade unless you physically destroy the cap)

 

[jmarin]

No, I like ABS, as per one of my replies above, my personal favourite is double-shot Cherry profile ABS caps (either harvested OG Cherry caps or new production from GMK, they're both produced on the same tooling).

What I dislike with regard to the sets you can get from WASD is the profile (I hate OEM profile), the texture (I can't really explain, but the WASD caps are pretty horrible to touch) and the method of legend printing (pad-print is the worst and not really durable at all, compared to double shot caps where the lettering literally cannot fade unless you physically destroy the cap)

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I am still trying to wrap my head around the different types, styles, profiles, etc.

 

[duynguyenle]

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I am still trying to wrap my head around the different types, styles, profiles, etc.

Once this corona virus all blows over and is under control, I recommend maybe finding a keyboard meetup near you and try and attend a meet, it's usually quite a cool experience, and you get to try loads stuff ranging from nice and sensible TKLs to weird and wonderful custom handwire jobs with strange split layouts.

It seems noone posted https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi this baby yet.

That's a really good shout, I own both of Tex's previous boards (got a Tex Yoda 2 and a Kodachi) and while neither kits were perfect without issues, I do think they're generally really well built, and if you're a fan of using a TrackPoint to manage your cursor, it's a pretty cool experience to be able to do that on a desktop, with mechanical switches.

 

[jmarin]

Based on experience, what are the best stabilizers? i.e. ones that don't rattle and keep the switch most stable. I haven't seen a great deal of different stabilizers available.

 

[ignsvn]

Based on experience, what are the best stabilizers? i.e. ones that don't rattle and keep the switch most stable. I haven't seen a great deal of different stabilizers available.

Nothing, actually.

Even the ones with supposedly tighter manufacturing tolerance like cherry or GMK still need to be lubed.

Some of my friends purposedly get the even lower quality ones and then do the heatshrink dampening method (cherry or gmk ones are too tight to allow the heatshrinked stab metal bar moving. Also, still need lube tho).

 

[jmarin]

Nothing, actually.

Even the ones with supposedly tighter manufacturing tolerance like cherry or GMK still need to be lubed.

Some of my friends purposedly get the even lower quality ones and then do the heatshrink dampening method (cherry or gmk ones are too tight to allow the heatshrinked stab metal bar moving. Also, still need lube tho).

Good to know. Thanks again

 

[duynguyenle]

For stabilisers, there's no reason to get fancy ones (unless you're going for aesthetics).

My recommendation is just to get real GMK screw-in PCB-mount stabs (screw-in are much better than regular clip-in ones because they don't depend on the PCB being correctly toleranced to stay secure), clip them, lube them, damper-mod them if you like. Done correctly, this should be a pretty cost effective way to do stabilisers

 

[ignsvn]

Here's the heatshrink method I mentioned earlier. Didn't work on my GMK stabs but might work on others.

Silencing Stabilisers — RAMA WORKS®

rama.works

 

[jmarin]

Thanks guys, what lube do you go with? And I am assuming it's the same you use for switches right? I had noticed the GMK stabs and that they were more expensive than the Cherry, so was wondering if they were the ones to go with. Most of my experience is with cheapo stabs in stock/pre-built keyboards, so I don't have first had experience with these ones.

 

[ignsvn]

Thanks guys, what lube do you go with? And I am assuming it's the same you use for switches right? I had noticed the GMK stabs and that they were more expensive than the Cherry, so was wondering if they were the ones to go with. Most of my experience is with cheapo stabs in stock/pre-built keyboards, so I don't have first had experience with these ones.

You can use the same lube, but usually for stabs you'd want a something a bit thicker.

Cheapest i know is non-conductive silicone grease. I am currently using Permatex Dielectric grease. You can google for more info & examples.

 

[duynguyenle]

Any non-conductive grease should be fine. I use Loctite-branded Super-Lube grease because it's cheap and readily available (and it's quite versatile so I can use it on bearings and other non-keyboard stuff around the house). Switch lubes tend to be thinner than greases, and is less suitable for stabilisers (ideally for stabs you want lube thick enough to stick to the surface and don't run)

 

[jmarin]

When it comes to Novelkeys Cream and Blueberry switches, they are made with POM which is supposedly self lubricating. Does that mean you wouldn't need to lubricate them? It doesn't sound like you would need to, but wanted to verify.

I also think I am going to go with a 60% board because it is not only cheaper, but the extra keys in a 65% board aren't necessary. However, the layout I want to do requires me to do a solder PCB instead of hotswap, so that has me a little nervous. I think before I dive in, I will try my hand at soldering more, as my experience is limited, and if that is unsuccessful, pay for a pre-assembled board.

 

[duynguyenle]

'Self-lubricating' simply means it's got a low coefficient of sliding/kinetic friction meaning it's less likely to bind/snag. You absolutely will still need to lube them.

Soldering is easy, though if you want good results, you're gonna need a couple of fundamental things:
1. A decent temperature-controlled iron. Doesn't have to be fancy or expensive, a TS100 + 40W AC Adapter should be plenty to start with.
2. Eutectic tin/lead solder (63/37%)
3. Some flux (a little flux pen is usually more than adequate for building keyboards.
4. A decent solder pump and a small length of copper braid (not technically required, but if it's your first time, you'll inevitably make mistakes, having these is useful)
5. Some patience.

Soldering switches is just about the easiest thing there is, all the switch legs are just through-hole joints that's basically trivial to do, unless your PCB specifically requires end-user to manually solder the MCU controller/crystal/SMD LEDs or something like that, it's pretty easy to pick up and learn.

 

[jmarin]

'Self-lubricating' simply means it's got a low coefficient of sliding/kinetic friction meaning it's less likely to bind/snag. You absolutely will still need to lube them.

Soldering is easy, though if you want good results, you're gonna need a couple of fundamental things:
1. A decent temperature-controlled iron. Doesn't have to be fancy or expensive, a TS100 + 40W AC Adapter should be plenty to start with.
2. Eutectic tin/lead solder (63/37%)
3. Some flux (a little flux pen is usually more than adequate for building keyboards.
4. A decent solder pump and a small length of copper braid (not technically required, but if it's your first time, you'll inevitably make mistakes, having these is useful)
5. Some patience.

Soldering switches is just about the easiest thing there is, all the switch legs are just through-hole joints that's basically trivial to do, unless your PCB specifically requires end-user to manually solder the MCU controller/crystal/SMD LEDs or something like that, it's pretty easy to pick up and learn.

Wait, so you're telling me my $5 harbor freight special soldering iron won't be good? ? ? ?
I am wondering if I could get by with a less expensive alternative. Trying to navigate the pricepoint of the keyboard with what I want to get without spending too much on tools on top of it all. ?
TS100 isn't too expensive really, but adding that on to the total price of the kb, makes it a more difficult sell to the misses.