"SFF" Keyboards

[iFreilicht]

If I needed to work on a laptop daily, I'd probably bring another keyboard along. I very much dislike the uncomfortable typing position on everything but the thinnest devices and even then I'd like a little bit of key travel. I also don't like the screen being at the bottom near me, it's just an ergonomic nightmare.

I was more talking about the layout, which in my case actually convinced me to go 60% instead of TKL. My desktop board with the TKP detached is already TKL and personally, I'm actually a little bit more productive with my laptop because I can use the navigation keys. I never learned to use them on the big boards and now they just feel too far away.

Yes the typing position itself is not ideal, but I find that high quality scissor chiclet keyboards can be quite comfortable to type on if you're not doing it all day and have a good seating position. My example would be the Dell XPS 12, but I guess MBPs are very similar in that regard. As I'm not spending the whole day typing at work, I would've been fine with using my laptop for the next few years. But after trying the Lioncast K20 with cherry browns I just want to upgrade so, so much.

 

[Phuncz]

All I really need is just enough resistance, and I'm good to go.

Now that you mention it, "key travel" isn't the correct term I used, but indeed the resistance matters to me too. Mushy keyboards are horrid.

I was more talking about the layout

Ah sorry, misunderstood you. Common laptops are in that regard a jumble in my experience, nearly every brand and sometimes model have different layouts for various keys. That our country uses the very specific Belgian AZERTY (unlike French AZERTY) doesn't help. Shift/Alt/Ctrl keys get shrunk or moved, the Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn keys are basically a free-for-all with some laptops having a few, some have non, some have all, and the location is just insanely varried. That's why I prefer the fresh ocean breeze feeling that I get from a full size ISO layout *hugs keyboard*

 

[iFreilicht]

Ah yeah, that's true. I'm one of those people who would never buy Lenovo for precisely that reason. (Putting Fn where Ctrl belongs, what were they thinking?!)

I guess I was just lucky enough to get a laptop that has a sensible layout in that regard: Fn between mushed Ctrl and Win, Del above Backspace, Fn+Del for Ins, Fn+Arrows for Home/End/PgUp/PgDn.
But yeah, once I go to a different laptop, I'm completely lost, and full size ISO is really like a safe heaven from all the craziness from all the layout experimentation. But I would argue that if you're not requiring a keypad, going TKL is absolutely viable.

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

French AZERTY ... well ... . As a french I'm using an ANSI keyboard with US International layout. That allow me to input french characters that can't be typed on french keyboards lol : À, É, È, Ç, etc.

Also, while being a 60% it has a convenient function layer:

• Fxx = Fn + number row
• Arrows = Fn + WASD (same as the cluster in game)
• Home = Q
• End = Z
• PgUp = E
• PgDown = C

This allow for fast typing and cleverly placed navigation cluster, thus limiting hand movement. As a developper, I spend between 8 and 10 hours a day typing at work. The mechanical Alps switch are lovely with a firm resistance, but not too much. I programmed the Arduino in a way that Caps Lock acts as Control, since I do not use Caps Lock and the old Apple didn't have Ctrl key.

 

[Phuncz]

But I would argue that if you're not requiring a keypad, going TKL is absolutely viable.

True, I was also looking for such a board, but at the time I couldn't find any that matched my requirements. I'm glad these are becoming more popular since they are quite redundant. Except most Belgians use these instead of the number row on top because you have to use Shift. No dexterity...

 

[confusis]

100% all the way for me, sorry. Use the tenkey constantly. Spreadsheet jockey

 

[danielbatmanj]

100% all the way for me, sorry. Use the tenkey constantly. Spreadsheet jockey

just get a seperate keypad and leave it off to the side

 

[confusis]

I don't have the desk space, plus even in normal typing, i use the tenkey rather than the numbers line for any numbers entered. Just the way I've learnt to work

 

[QinX]

I don't have the desk space, plus even in normal typing, i use the tenkey rather than the numbers line for any numbers entered. Just the way I've learnt to work

Why lift you hand and move it forward and across to type 2016 when you can swivel to the side

I can touch type easily, but numberpad touch type was difficult for me because I didn't use it all that often.
That was until I spent a full night setting up a CS 1.6 Userconfig.cfd that had all numberpad keys assigned for buying at the start of rounds. That made me touch type so fast in such a short amount of time it was crazy.

 

[iFreilicht]

rench AZERTY ... well ... . As a french I'm using an ANSI keyboard with US International layout. That allow me to input french characters that can't be typed on french keyboards lol : À, É, È, Ç, etc.

Wait. Why is there a french layout in the first place if you can't even spell the language correctly? Or is that solved in software somehow?

I programmed the Arduino in a way that Caps Lock acts as Control, since I do not use Caps Lock and the old Apple didn't have Ctrl key.

I'll do this as well to get Fn, Win and Alt in the left of the bottom row. Caps Lock is a very good position for this, it just makes sense to put it there.

There's a neat program called SharpKeys, that allows you to remap your keyboard keys to a certain extent, so I'm using that right now on my desktop and laptop to get used to the new position before my boards arrive at the end of July

True, I was also looking for such a board, but at the time I couldn't find any that matched my requirements. I'm glad these are becoming more popular since they are quite redundant. Except most Belgians use these instead of the number row on top because you have to use Shift. No dexterity...

Oh man that sucks. Do you have important letters there?

I don't have the desk space, plus even in normal typing, i use the tenkey rather than the numbers line for any numbers entered. Just the way I've learnt to work

If you have space for a 100%, you've got space for a 60% and a TKP. Also, emulating a TKP on a matrix keyboard can allow you to be faster as you don't have to take your hand off the keys to type in numbers.

 

[jeshikat]

just get a seperate keypad and leave it off to the side

One annoying issue with that is some of them don't output NUM keys, which are treated separately than the numbers at the top of the keyboard. I found this out the hard way when a program I was using was mapped to NUM and trying to remap the keys didn't work smoothly

 

[|||]

Do any map to NUM keys? They don't explicitly say in their descriptions, usually. The only times I have seen it is in warning notes by vendors.

 

[jeshikat]

Do any map to NUM keys?

The Topre one does but that's too rich for my blood.

 

[|||]

Is that the Realforce one? I spent less getting my Novatouch

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

Wait. Why is there a french layout in the first place if you can't even spell the language correctly? Or is that solved in software somehow?

It kinda spell the language correctly, but you can't input accented char or cedilla in capital. This goes back to typewriter where this would have resulted in an odd height (É would have had the same height than E).

As a result, it has been tolerated in the french language to have capital accented letters without their accents ... but this still is a mistake.

 

[jeshikat]

Is that the Realforce one? I spent less getting my Novatouch

Yep, that's the one. $120 just for a number pad

 

[iFreilicht]

It kinda spell the language correctly, but you can't input accented char or cedilla in capital. This goes back to typewriter where this would have resulted in an odd height (É would have had the same height than E).

As a result, it has been tolerated in the french language to have capital accented letters without their accents ... but this still is a mistake.

That's funny, even with my german keyboard I can do this: É, È.

One annoying issue with that is some of them don't output NUM keys, which are treated separately than the numbers at the top of the keyboard. I found this out the hard way when a program I was using was mapped to NUM and trying to remap the keys didn't work smoothly

Quote from geekhack thread:

This is a known issue. Believe it or not it's actually done for a reason. The idea is that the state of the NumLock on the normal keyboard doesn't effect the Numpad. Instead of sending number pad keys, the pad sends number row (not affected by NumLock), and when its own NumLock button is pressed, it sends the PgUp, Home, etc. keys.

/r/MechanicalKeyboards seem to have a relatively comprehensive list. Apparently the most problematic issue were numpads from Leopold, which actually were fixed after complaints.

 

[jeshikat]

Apparently the most problematic issue were numpads from Leopold, which actually were fixed after complaints.

Ah, I have a Leopold that I got shortly after Elite Keyboards started selling them. The main reason I have a TKL + Numpad setup is so I can move the numpad aside so the TKL is closer to the mouse. But I don't game much anymore so if I have some spare money I'll probably just get a full-size keyboard and retire my TKL to the test bench so I can get my NUM keys back.

 

[iFreilicht]

A nice effort to solve this was made by MS with the Sidewinder X6, which, incidentally, is the board I currently own

You can actually attach the TKP on either side or just leave it unattached. That way you get the best of all worlds. I'm only using it as a TKL, though.

The stupidest thing about this keyboard is the ESC-key. It's above the macro keys on the left, which means you always hit F1 if you're used to normal boards and I always hit nothing on normal boards after using this one for over 6 years.

 

[GuilleAcoustic]

I agree that the numpad shouldn't be on the same side than the pointing device.