Concept SENTRY 3.0: Development and Suggestions

[amalek.92]

Please bring back the white option and put the power button cutout back to its original place from 1.1 version, as that way it looks better (and doesn't interfere with PSU's cables). White Sentry 1.1 is still the best looking one. Although it's possible you guys will opt for a major design overhaul. I have huge hopes for the 3.0 revision.

 

[RoSenpai]

Hi! I'm a Sentry 2.0 owner and I have a couple ideas that I don't even know if they make sense.
1- Would it be possible to change the "U" shape of the cover for an "L" shape?

I think it would make the building process easier and maybe even make the case sturdier.
Also, it could make the feet more stable, since they would be attached to the chasis instead of the cover.
The screws could be placed in the front, and I also would like to ask for something here.
2- My case bent a bit in the middle of the cover, so would it be possible to add a little metal piece to prevent the cover from bending?

3- I measured the back and it can fit 2 120mm fans. Would this be better for ventilation than the "pillow"?

4- And, at last, Hardware Canucks made a video adding a 3D printed support for top fans, could this be added as a default feature?

Thanks for everything! I Love the Sentry!

 

[SaperPL]

Hi! I'm a Sentry 2.0 owner and I have a couple ideas that I don't even know if they make sense.
1- Would it be possible to change the "U" shape of the cover for an "L" shape?

I think it would make the building process easier and maybe even make the case sturdier.
Also, it could make the feet more stable, since they would be attached to the chasis instead of the cover.
The screws could be placed in the front, and I also would like to ask for something here.
2- My case bent a bit in the middle of the cover, so would it be possible to add a little metal piece to prevent the cover from bending?

3- I measured the back and it can fit 2 120mm fans. Would this be better for ventilation than the "pillow"?

4- And, at last, Hardware Canucks made a video adding a 3D printed support for top fans, could this be added as a default feature?

Thanks for everything! I Love the Sentry!

We're slowly working towards improvements in the 3.0 and we have some ideas on how to do this, but we're also taking such feedback into consideration.
1) - we'll see whether it'll make sense. Know that we always wanted to reduce the number of screws sticking out on the sides, so it's definitely not going to be made like you've proposed, but we'll see.

2) That's a bit more complex topic - the slight bend of the cover right around the tooth is something that was varying from case to case, but in general it was like this because we needed some spring tension to keep the cover tight. We're working on a bit different way of handling the cover as there are a few consequences of how it was made in the last version

3) While it may seem that squeezing in two fans is a good idea, note that there's not much space between the cover and the GPU anyway - thinnest 120 mm fans are like 13 mm and we have like 10 mm on each side of the GPU. also putting fans right against perforation is not perfect on top of it being right against the GPU so it'd most likely be loud under load. Not to mention that it won't look as good as with somewhat balanced sides we have with only half being perforated.

4) We're most likely not going to include an additional part like this because it requires additional space for those fans, so having a card that isn't too big. Also note the current situation with GPUs. This means this would probably be used by select few people who could get their hands on a reference sized GPU. Additional parts that are not going to be used by most of the users are unnecessarily bringing up the cost of production, so there's that.
If anything, we'll look into options of having such mounting points integrated, but for it to make sense, we would need to have place more likely for 20 mm thick fans rather than 10 mm slim ones, and this gets challenging, so we won't promise anything here either.

 

[RoSenpai]

We're slowly working towards improvements in the 3.0 and we have some ideas on how to do this, but we're also taking such feedback into consideration.
1) - we'll see whether it'll make sense. Know that we always wanted to reduce the number of screws sticking out on the sides, so it's definitely not going to be made like you've proposed, but we'll see.

2) That's a bit more complex topic - the slight bend of the cover right around the tooth is something that was varying from case to case, but in general it was like this because we needed some spring tension to keep the cover tight. We're working on a bit different way of handling the cover as there are a few consequences of how it was made in the last version

3) While it may seem that squeezing in two fans is a good idea, note that there's not much space between the cover and the GPU anyway - thinnest 120 mm fans are like 13 mm and we have like 10 mm on each side of the GPU. also putting fans right against perforation is not perfect on top of it being right against the GPU so it'd most likely be loud under load. Not to mention that it won't look as good as with somewhat balanced sides we have with only half being perforated.

4) We're most likely not going to include an additional part like this because it requires additional space for those fans, so having a card that isn't too big. Also note the current situation with GPUs. This means this would probably be used by select few people who could get their hands on a reference sized GPU. Additional parts that are not going to be used by most of the users are unnecessarily bringing up the cost of production, so there's that.
If anything, we'll look into options of having such mounting points integrated, but for it to make sense, we would need to have place more likely for 20 mm thick fans rather than 10 mm slim ones, and this gets challenging, so we won't promise anything here either.

Thanks for the answer!
Also, in point 4) I meant that the own cover would be perforated for the fans, not adding a new piece, but I really don't know hoy much would this improve the temps.
Looking forward the Sentry 3.0 for the next build!

 

[LeChuck81]

4) We're most likely not going to include an additional part like this because it requires additional space for those fans, so having a card that isn't too big. Also note the current situation with GPUs. This means this would probably be used by select few people who could get their hands on a reference sized GPU. Additional parts that are not going to be used by most of the users are unnecessarily bringing up the cost of production, so there's that.

About that fan mount, could maybe possible to offer it as an option?
I'm thinking of getting one of those for my 2.0 but having a well studied option from the manufacturer would definitely be a better option than an aftermarket add that has to adapt to how the case is originally manufactured.

 

[SaperPL]

About that fan mount, could maybe possible to offer it as an option?

Until we can safely deliver cases from stock, adding options is something we're not willing to do, apart from choosing a colour, because it's hard to gauge how many people are going to actually want this and without such numbers we'll have it hard to estimate price of it even if it's just a piece of sheet metal, but dropping an additional piece into the same package means tracking packages with options, and to make it properly we need separate packaging for those and this also means figuring out whether the shipping for this needs to cost more etc etc. That is why we would rather integrate something like this into the mainstream design and also because it also means that if the case is repurposed later on, this functionality is already there without the need to order spare parts with expensive shipment from us.

I'm thinking of getting one of those for my 2.0 but having a well studied option from the manufacturer would definitely be a better option than an aftermarket add that has to adapt to how the case is originally manufactured.

Well, here's the catch - I designed this piece in the first place (except for magnet mounts and maybe Mike tweaked some tolerances for 3D printing), like long before even Mike from HC asked for this, but it hardly ever made sense as people were using mostly cards that wouldn't allow for squeezing in those fans OR lower end/mid tier card that didn't have that much of a problem to need that, and those small fans from Noctua are still pricey and adding multiple of those + some reasonable splitter means added cost that could've been used on the card itself.

Also note that with current stupidly high prices and non-existent availability we weren't focusing yet on testing any of most recent cards as it's hard to assume that a card that we can get our hands on is representative for most of the potential users.

 

[LeChuck81]

Until we can safely deliver cases from stock, adding options is something we're not willing to do, apart from choosing a colour, because it's hard to gauge how many people are going to actually want this and without such numbers we'll have it hard to estimate price of it even if it's just a piece of sheet metal, but dropping an additional piece into the same package means tracking packages with options, and to make it properly we need separate packaging for those and this also means figuring out whether the shipping for this needs to cost more etc etc. That is why we would rather integrate something like this into the mainstream design and also because it also means that if the case is repurposed later on, this functionality is already there without the need to order spare parts with expensive shipment from us.

Well, that actually makes totally sense. Maybe, if 3.0 is still going to be a crowfunded project, it can be one of the higher tiers? That way you can at least know the exact number of pieces you have to produce. Just me throwing ideas here…

Well, here's the catch - I designed this piece in the first place (except for magnet mounts and maybe Mike tweaked some tolerances for 3D printing), like long before even Mike from HC asked for this, but it hardly ever made sense as people were using mostly cards that wouldn't allow for squeezing in those fans OR lower end/mid tier card that didn't have that much of a problem to need that, and those small fans from Noctua are still pricey and adding multiple of those + some reasonable splitter means added cost that could've been used on the card itself.

Also note that with current stupidly high prices and non-existent availability we weren't focusing yet on testing any of most recent cards as it's hard to assume that a card that we can get our hands on is representative for most of the potential users.

Indeed, as far as I know, the only cards that can accomodate that bracket and those fans AND effectively benefit from them are 3070 TI/3080/TI Founder Editions, EVGAs XC3 cards, as the 3090(!!!) Mike is sporting, and, maybe, AMD's reference cards, 6700 XT up to 6800 XT? Not sure if 6900 XT fits into a Sentry and if it leaves enough room for bracket and fans…

So, we are definitely talking about a niché inside a niché here, I understand why this could be more of a nuisance than anything else for you, expecially considering the Sentry as a whole is a side project for your company.

 

[tja4430]

Well, that actually makes totally sense. Maybe, if 3.0 is still going to be a crowfunded project, it can be one of the higher tiers? That way you can at least know the exact number of pieces you have to produce. Just me throwing ideas here…



Indeed, as far as I know, the only cards that can accomodate that bracket and those fans AND effectively benefit from them are 3070 TI/3080/TI Founder Editions, EVGAs XC3 cards, as the 3090(!!!) Mike is sporting, and, maybe, AMD's reference cards, 6700 XT up to 6800 XT? Not sure if 6900 XT fits into a Sentry and if it leaves enough room for bracket and fans…

So, we are definitely talking about a niché inside a niché here, I understand why this could be more of a nuisance than anything else for you, expecially considering this is a side project for your company.

I think the AMD Stock 6700XT and 6800 fit, but not the 6800XT and 6900XT. I think actually none of the AIB 6700XT cards and above fit in the 2.0 case.

The Nvidia stock cards I believe fit, with the exception of the 3090. EVGA's XC series as you point out also fit, and I think some of the Eagle series from Gigabyte (not all) fit as well.

 

[LeChuck81]

I think the AMD Stock 6700XT and 6800 fit, but not the 6800XT and 6900XT. I think actually none of the AIB 6700XT cards and above fit in the 2.0 case.

The Nvidia stock cards I believe fit, with the exception of the 3090. EVGA's XC series as you point out also fit, and I think some of the Eagle series from Gigabyte (not all) fit as well.

Optimum Tech showed that an AMD stock RX 6800 XT can technically fit into a Sentry, here's the video:



but I highly doubt you can then mount the above fan support, let alone the fans!

Other than that, I totally agree with your list, I would have listed exactly the same lines of cards. Would add all the reference VGA AIBs manufacture, they all are basically 1-to-1 copies of stock AMD cards.
Here's an example from Sapphire but same goes with almost all other AIBs:

AMD Radeon™ RX 6800 Gaming Graphics Card

 

[repdetect2]

I'm just glad you guys are going to make another one. I won't miss out this time

 

[SaperPL]

I'm just glad you guys are going to make another one. I won't miss out this time

The whole point is to make it not a batch-to-batch production but being able to sell continuously from stock. While crowdfunding campaign seems like a good way to fund a production, it's still extremely nerve-racking experience to align campaign, orders at subcontractors and make deliveries on time and it's not something we want to get ourselves into again to be honest. SFF cases crowdfunding is just too niche for crowdfunding platforms to prioritise payouts for us and this is something that affects whole scheduling. I think that once we've proven that we can both sell and deliver, there should be better ways for us to fund production even if we are to start with a smaller batches initially.

 

[Lisanaadr]

I'm more for buying by product and not by lot. because it allows everyone to buy them in due time. I hope the 3.0 will still be as slim and versatile, capable of integrating a larger board. but also well ventilated. Thank you in advance for your commitment. I haven't seen buying version 2.0 because I live in France. I hope this time I can get it. Good work and thoughts.

 

[labmonke101]

There is a thread for a prototype Velka case that has everything I’d want in a Sentry 3.0. Maximum focus on ventilation and hardware compatibility at the same volume (supports triple slot even!)

 

[SaperPL]

There is a thread for a prototype Velka case that has everything I’d want in a Sentry 3.0. Maximum focus on ventilation and hardware compatibility at the same volume (supports triple slot even!)

If you prefer that case and there is availability, then feel free to take that one. It's not like we're forcing you to not go for the velka, but there is a reason why you're commenting here

As for "maximum focus on ventilation" - note that Sliger's console also is vented everywhere and AfaiR the tests made by Level1Techs have shown that performance differences between that case and Sentry 2.0 were negligible.

That console style case from Velka seems like a good way to make something that is cheap (in context of construction and amount of bends per piece) and focused on vertical orientation, but the drawbacks will come when you'll want to put it laying horizontally or transport it.

And also I wouldn't really expect to use the advantages of 3-slot GPU without additional fans in a case, maybe apart from the fact that you can get your hands on that kind of card easier. It's like putting a 1000 horsepower engine in small compact city car because it fits, but it doesn't make much sense outside game realm.

What we're trying to achieve is to make a case that is kind of a reference of what SteamMachine's supposed to be, and just because there is a lot of happening in the industry all the time, doesn't mean we should be jumping around from idea to idea. It's just that so far the price tag made it so that the case was filled in with expensive components, but it shouldn't be like that. It's actually a bad idea to squeeze in a 3090 in a case like this because you will starving the card's cooling system of fresh air that should be delivered constantly by multiple fans in the case. Just because you can, doesn't mean it makes sense.

 

[labmonke101]

If you prefer that case and there is availability, then feel free to take that one. It's not like we're forcing you to not go for the velka, but there is a reason why you're commenting here

As for "maximum focus on ventilation" - note that Sliger's console also is vented everywhere and AfaiR the tests made by Level1Techs have shown that performance differences between that case and Sentry 2.0 were negligible.

That console style case from Velka seems like a good way to make something that is cheap (in context of construction and amount of bends per piece) and focused on vertical orientation, but the drawbacks will come when you'll want to put it laying horizontally or transport it.

And also I wouldn't really expect to use the advantages of 3-slot GPU without additional fans in a case, maybe apart from the fact that you can get your hands on that kind of card easier. It's like putting a 1000 horsepower engine in small compact city car because it fits, but it doesn't make much sense outside game realm.

What we're trying to achieve is to make a case that is kind of a reference of what SteamMachine's supposed to be, and just because there is a lot of happening in the industry all the time, doesn't mean we should be jumping around from idea to idea. It's just that so far the price tag made it so that the case was filled in with expensive components, but it shouldn't be like that. It's actually a bad idea to squeeze in a 3090 in a case like this because you will starving the card's cooling system of fresh air that should be delivered constantly by multiple fans in the case. Just because you can, doesn't mean it makes sense.

I failed to clarify my point here, let me try again

The ability to run flow-through coolers unobstructed is a significant advantage and shouldn’t be overlooked. 3090s can and do run just fine without additional case fans, as evidenced by hardware Canuck’s build in the Sentry.

I’d like to see improvements to the ventilation behind the GPU, with flow through coolers becoming the prevailing design. That alone could improve the longevity and usability of the case

 

[SaperPL]

It remains to be seen if the flow-through designs will last for future generations of cards or not, but right now we're stuck with the current one. As for how the Sentry is designed, having half of the panel non-perforated is good for the looks and for rigidity of the case as a whole.

I'm not saying it definitely won't happen, but we're extremely reluctant with that as the case starts to look really generic once you go that route of fully perforated panel and there are some consequences when it comes to use in horizontal orientation. But we'll get there at some point, to make that decision.

 

[Mosskovskaia]

I have some suggestions too:

1. Increase the height to 50mm: 47mm is enough for this case but an air gap of 3mm would help with turbulence when you use something like Thermalright axp90

2. PCI-4.0 support: This will be the standard for new GPU's. It's not about the faster speeds, 3.0 doesn't show slowing down your GPU but for compatibility it would be great not to pull the GPU out and put it into the MB directly when you update BIOS or first install the system.

The Flow through design I don't know man. If people had the chance to get a 3080 FE then yes this is cool but there are not many people who were lucky so maybe a small ventilated area would do enough but maybe we don't need it for future designs.

 

[labmonke101]

I have some suggestions too:

1. Increase the height to 50mm: 47mm is enough for this case but an air gap of 3mm would help with turbulence when you use something like Thermalright axp90

2. PCI-4.0 support: This will be the standard for new GPU's. It's not about the faster speeds, 3.0 doesn't show slowing down your GPU but for compatibility it would be great not to pull the GPU out and put it into the MB directly when you update BIOS or first install the system.

The Flow through design I don't know man. If people had the chance to get a 3080 FE then yes this is cool but there are not many people who were lucky so maybe a small ventilated area would do enough but maybe we don't need it for future designs.

GPU TDPs are not getting any lower, and flow through designs have proven to be a very effective cooling method. I would be shocked if they went away. Even AIBs, not just Nvidia, are going for them

 

[force majeure]

As for how the Sentry is designed, having half of the panel non-perforated is good for the looks and for rigidity of the case as a whole.

It may seem silly, but Sentry's aesthetics (among other things) play a considerable part in my willingness to spend the amount of money a case like Sentry would set me back, as opposed to some cheaper run-of-the-mill alternative.

 

[Mosskovskaia]

GPU TDPs are not getting any lower, and flow through designs have proven to be a very effective cooling method. I would be shocked if they went away. Even AIBs, not just Nvidia, are going for them

Yeah well we can only wait and see what the future brings.
When I have learned one thing in tech than there’s no „future proof“ for hardware.

sliger has the flow through design in their conswole cases and I like this style but for the sentry I don’t know if it would fit. I mean having the pc as a console style in/on a tv rack is something that not many people will do. The portability factor is more to me.
Another reason is that if every case is in the console Lay-out there is not much difference.

To the flow through design thing again.
maybe a part ventilated at the back world be cool. Sone people even put a tiny aio in there and that world definitely help. Maybe this is the middle way where everybody would be happy.