Concept SENTRY 3.0: Development and Suggestions

lawney

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Jun 28, 2018
104
68
I don't think this is something that we will be able to do without significantly affecting construction. Also this is not a rack case and will never be, it's meant to have airflow at the sides and when you put other equipment next to it in a rack, you'll choke the airflow.

The type-C connector on front panel is one thing, the internal header on it is a separate topic. We would love to ditch the 20-pin header, but that's still a standard. Maybe with AM5 we'll finally have the new connector being standard in mITX boards and then we will be able to change the internal cable to it. For now it's still not there. We don't want to force you to buy Asus or one of few expensive boards that have those.

I was thinking a theatre rack; it would leave inches of open air on the sides...maybe less for the sentry. I have network switches and a blu-ray player with rack ears that are perforated. Currently, the Sentry works great on a rack shelf, but a Sentry with rack ears would probably have more airflow for the GPU if it were floating in a rack. Again, it's a super niche idea and I wouldn't ever expect it, but airflow would not likely be an issue. It's finding a way to safely attach rack ears to the case at all, and in a strong enough way. Still, there is some kind of room in the market for a 2u-ish tall case with optional rack ears (though maybe not profitable).

20-pin, that's right. Well, maybe this would be an opportunity for an upsell: you have a 20-pin USB 3.0 cable by default, and a USB 3.1 Gen 2 cable as an add-on. And do USB-C for the cutouts, but maybe you think the USB-A ports suit the Sentry's styling better. USB-A is still the console standard I guess. My biggest issue is that I always had issues fitting the 20-pin cable into the Sentry 1, it was always just a bit too tall, radius of the cable bend a bit too wide. And I have an ASRock B550 board, so USB 3.1 Gen 2 is what I'll be using in the future. BTW, there are 20-pin to Gen 2 adapters.
 
Last edited:

Aranel

Cable Smoosher
Jan 5, 2018
10
4
Did you think to support 60x15/25 fan on the sides to improve internal airflow? I saw some users doing the same on sentry with 40x15 fan, but I really don't know the outcome
 

SaperPL

Master of Cramming
DR ZĄBER
Oct 17, 2017
472
882
Did you think to support 60x15/25 fan on the sides to improve internal airflow? I saw some users doing the same on sentry with 40x15 fan, but I really don't know the outcome

I don't think there is room on the inside to fit such fans. on the outside, that wouldn't look good and you'd have to route the cables to the inside and then closing the cover would be ridiculously complex. Also fans next/close to perforation are generation a lot of noise.
 

kai535

Chassis Packer
Jul 14, 2020
19
5
in my opinion- I would widen the case to have better air cooled cpu coolers- Noctua NH- L12 ghost one is 66mm and L9X65 is 65mm both coolers can handle 95W-125W chips and stay cool when not overclocking- Because I just don't think this case is meant to be a overclocking machine.

I would add ventilation to the back panel and get rid of the air pocket for pass through cooling for the new founder edition gpus. the GPU area can handle 2.5 slot cards no problem so I think a 3 slot isn't needed.

The Vandal Switch cable could be shorter its just a pain to have the length that it is.

Lastly the usb 3.0 front panel needs to go that cable is awful to deal with and has to be smooshed in and I feel like its a risk to bending pins that arn't plugged into something (like corner pins). with new motherboards including the usb C standard like whats below would be perfect for the front panel and its not a thick cable to plug into the motherboard, and the new Xbox/sony controllers are usb C and could just use a usb C to C cable for living room use.

if not that then nothing on the front panel is fine too- usb adapters are cheap enough and the clean look plus less inner cable management would be great.

Lastly though- to many changes and upsizing the case and its loses it niche- sliger offers a conswole at 10L that holds what I'm asking and the Node 202 is in that boat too so anything to drastic and it loses what makes this case unique.

this
 

friendscatdied

Trash Compacter
Jan 4, 2017
36
15
I'm probably in the minority here but I'd appreciate if there was more flexibility in horizontal orientation for optionality to prioritize CPU or GPU thermals (e.g. supporting the screw-in feet from either side), and/or deeper included feet to improve performance when laid flat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snerual and SaperPL

force majeure

Efficiency Noob
Feb 23, 2021
6
5
Hi,

I'm probably in an even bigger minority than the previous poster but I'd like to see the optional HDD brackets make a comeback. I'm not a gamer and my usecase for Sentry would be a small form factor Unix-workstation instead of a gaming rig. In other words I don't feel a need to cram the biggest or fattest possible GPU into the case. I'm well aware that my wish has probably zero chance of succeeding, but since @ZombiPL asked for suggestions, this is mine. :)

Another nice improvement would be more space to accomodate bifurcating PCIe risers without the need to modify the case. There was a guy on reddit, I think, who managed to put in a bifurcating riser from Ameri-Rrack but had to remove a small part of Sentry's middle beam to succeed.

The most time consuming part of the above changes is designing the molds, which not only improve the quality of the final product, but also will allow us to make it faster in bigger quantities.
(emphasis mine)

Does this mean the case will be produced and distributed in more large-scale fashion or are we looking at another limited kickstarter-run?

In any case, I'm really glad to see that Sentry 3.0 is moving forward. :thumb:
 

SaperPL

Master of Cramming
DR ZĄBER
Oct 17, 2017
472
882
I'm probably in an even bigger minority than the previous poster but I'd like to see the optional HDD brackets make a comeback. I'm not a gamer and my usecase for Sentry would be a small form factor Unix-workstation instead of a gaming rig. In other words I don't feel a need to cram the biggest or fattest possible GPU into the case. I'm well aware that my wish has probably zero chance of succeeding, but since @ZombiPL asked for suggestions, this is mine. :)
As far as drives go, we have seen almost none builds with those in both Sentry 1.1 and Sentry 2.0 production runs. In comparison to dozens of builds showcased online with full length graphic cards there were just few builds that had additional drives in GPU compartment. The issue with drives is that the mounting within perforation makes the layout complicated due to how mounting holes are arranged on the drives and thus optimising perforation is complicated with handling of those. We don't want to support secondary configurations at cost of performance in mainstream config.

Another nice improvement would be more space to accomodate bifurcating PCIe risers without the need to modify the case. There was a guy on reddit, I think, who managed to put in a bifurcating riser from Ameri-Rrack but had to remove a small part of Sentry's middle beam to succeed.

The 2.0 already has the riser mounting in a way that it shouldn't obstruct such risers.

Does this mean the case will be produced and distributed in more large-scale fashion or are we looking at another limited kickstarter-run?

Distribution is another thing, but we want to be able to sell cases completely off shelf without issues. Once we have ability to build up stock, the distribution will be another thing to figure out.

We're not saying definite no to crowdfunding as it is something that can help promote the product, but at the same time we've had issues with platform disbursing funds on time twice, even when we've taken into account the delay from the first campaign in the second one, which affected production schedules.

Also there are things that you can't be sure until you are ready to press that "launch campaign" button and we had few surprises that made the mess with both campaigns, especially the issue with collecting funds in EUR, which we used as a base currency for the price tag sent to reviewers and it seemed to have made a mess with how the launch of Sentry 2.0 campaign was received.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amalek.92

sos

Chassis Packer
Feb 11, 2021
15
20
And what if you change riser to rotate GPU by 180°? This will give us only one perforated case side :)

 
Last edited:

sos

Chassis Packer
Feb 11, 2021
15
20
After that there can be an optional perforation for air-through GPU cooling system or AIO:

 
Last edited:

SaperPL

Master of Cramming
DR ZĄBER
Oct 17, 2017
472
882
And what if you change riser to rotate GPU by 180°? This will give us only one perforated case side :)

After that there can be an optional perforation for air-through GPU or AIOs:
Meh, I don't have an "edit" option right now :p I mean optional perforation on the other side of the case for air-through GPU cooling system or AIO

The problem with rotating the GPU is that you still need some space to bend the riser ribbon in a safe way and it's not that easy with most of the risers. Note that there is some space taken in front of the card's PCI-e connector taken by the riser's slot body, it's PCB and the portion of the ribbon where it starts to bend around.

Also long ribbon risers are generally more expensive and prone to damage than PCB risers.
That is why we have kept the original layout from steam machine prototype because it makes most sense in context of how much space savings you get from this.

As for the second concept image you've got - that small vent is essentially what we don't want to do in terms of aesthetics. The vents should be front to back and not just small portions like this, because it feels like just slapping openings here and there.

We are considering various options, but forcing such change on mainstream configuration is not something we want to do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amalek.92 and sos

curtisa

Minimal Tinkerer
New User
Feb 22, 2020
4
3
- I have a Sentry 2.0, luckily was able to grab one when they had only a few hundred left last year. However, when I received mine, the side panel was bowed/bent. So even now when it is assembled it doesn't quite line up correctly and distracting from the aesthetic. So my recommendation would be to use a thicker metal by a small margin. Perhaps an additional 0.5mm or something to bolster the strength of the side panels, a small 2mm flange on the face/backplates to support the side panel, or making the center support cross rail actually support up against that middle portion for support.

- The next thing is the extra couple mm for fan proximity for side panels. Right now I get a noticeable amount of turbulent air with my fans as the air flow through the ventilation is so close to those fans. So giving a 2.5 slot gpu would help alleviate this, as well, giving 50mm cpu cooler clearance would help with this.

- The USB port problem is just that, the 20 pin USB cable is a nightmare. I know this is just due to how particular usb 3 is. I would recommend switching to USB-C front panel and then offering a 20 pin adapter to type-c header. I did this on amazon for my portable DAN A4.1 and it works like a champ!!! No speed or connectivity issues. That adapter was $4 on amazon. Another option may be to include a metal backplate that would cover or fill the USB ports for those that will not use front panel usb.

- Obviously as others have mentioned, PCI-e 4.0.

- Much shorter Front Panel cables. I know people have various hardware and the locations for attaching the USB and Power/LED are not all in the same location. My idea is to sell it with short cables that will fit pin headers that are in the location between the MB and PSU. Then include short extension cables for those that have them else where. This will allow people to get their wires where they need close or far without huge cable bulk to hide and stash. I know this will cost a few dollars, but I am assuming those of us that have built in tiny rigs are willing to pay an additional $3 or $4 for a nice clean tidy rig.

The Sentry is the perfect style and relative size, it would just go a long way to refine a few of these other things.
 

SaperPL

Master of Cramming
DR ZĄBER
Oct 17, 2017
472
882
- I have a Sentry 2.0, luckily was able to grab one when they had only a few hundred left last year. However, when I received mine, the side panel was bowed/bent. So even now when it is assembled it doesn't quite line up correctly and distracting from the aesthetic. So my recommendation would be to use a thicker metal by a small margin. Perhaps an additional 0.5mm or something to bolster the strength of the side panels, a small 2mm flange on the face/backplates to support the side panel, or making the center support cross rail actually support up against that middle portion for support.

If you are talking about small concave above the "tooth" that is locking the cover in the middle, then it's something that was made this way because it would require stamping to offset it and also it was good to have a spot with tension for it not to be completely loose.

Other than that, we are looking into potentially reinforcing the cover and making it more rigid on that edge. Adding 0.5 mm won't really do much, but flange/stamp might help. With that said there's always cost attached to such things and here it means redesign in connected areas, so it's not something we can promise we are going to follow through at this point in time.

- The next thing is the extra couple mm for fan proximity for side panels. Right now I get a noticeable amount of turbulent air with my fans as the air flow through the ventilation is so close to those fans. So giving a 2.5 slot gpu would help alleviate this, as well, giving 50mm cpu cooler clearance would help with this.

We will see what we can do about 2.5 slot gpus as this is a valid concern considering where the industry is going, but making the case 3 mm thicker for 50 mm CPU cooler clearance is a significant change and there will always be that one more mm to fit something slightly bigger.

- The USB port problem is just that, the 20 pin USB cable is a nightmare. I know this is just due to how particular usb 3 is. I would recommend switching to USB-C front panel and then offering a 20 pin adapter to type-c header. I did this on amazon for my portable DAN A4.1 and it works like a champ!!! No speed or connectivity issues. That adapter was $4 on amazon. Another option may be to include a metal backplate that would cover or fill the USB ports for those that will not use front panel usb.

The issue with fallback approach is that it is another cable. So everyone who won't get the board with the new type-c header will have additional cable because of it. On top of that, everyone will pay additionally to get that adapter. Moreover if we want to make 2x type-A with the inner type-C header, it'll be treated as a new custom piece and will cost more than those generic cables. Those things do add up especially at the start of production where we don't have thoughsands of those new pieces already made. So question is whether this is something that is worth paying for example $10~15 USD extra for this (customised cable price increase + fallback adapter).

- Obviously as others have mentioned, PCI-e 4.0.

- Much shorter Front Panel cables. I know people have various hardware and the locations for attaching the USB and Power/LED are not all in the same location. My idea is to sell it with short cables that will fit pin headers that are in the location between the MB and PSU. Then include short extension cables for those that have them else where. This will allow people to get their wires where they need close or far without huge cable bulk to hide and stash. I know this will cost a few dollars, but I am assuming those of us that have built in tiny rigs are willing to pay an additional $3 or $4 for a nice clean tidy rig.

This is something I will have to talk about with our supplier. I think the option was minimum 40 cm and we have 50 cm because it's a standard version. The issue is that while the one end is being moulded, you want the other end to be outside of the mould/press to not crush it. I don't have the current updated info on this, it might have changed for our supplier, but not that this is about the tooling and might be costly to improve upon.

But this is a valid point because when we were designing this, there were quite a few board that had the header somewhere between pci-e slot and audio IO connector at the back, so additional length was handling such situations properly. But now we have fairly standardised locations along one edge and maybe few boards on the other edge.

The Sentry is the perfect style and relative size, it would just go a long way to refine a few of these other things.

That's what we are planning to do, and that's why we don't want to make completely revolutionary changes in shape, dimmensions and layout - this would mean starting from scratch both when it comes to design and when it comes to what people want the case for and what they like it for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vesko

curtisa

Minimal Tinkerer
New User
Feb 22, 2020
4
3
If you are talking about small concave above the "tooth" that is locking the cover in the middle, then it's something that was made this way because it would require stamping to offset it and also it was good to have a spot with tension for it not to be completely loose.
That is not quite what I meant. The large cover panel about midway up, on the edge in the approximate area of the power button. It was a significant bend. I am assuming it collapsed inwards nearly 5mm. If I was in the same country as that PC right now, I would send you a picture, but even assembled and trying my best to flatten it out, it still has an inward gap of approximately 1.5-2mm. I cant be the only person this is affecting. Seems like a long stretch to bridge without support.
 

SaperPL

Master of Cramming
DR ZĄBER
Oct 17, 2017
472
882
That is not quite what I meant. The large cover panel about midway up, on the edge in the approximate area of the power button. It was a significant bend. I am assuming it collapsed inwards nearly 5mm. If I was in the same country as that PC right now, I would send you a picture, but even assembled and trying my best to flatten it out, it still has an inward gap of approximately 1.5-2mm. I cant be the only person this is affecting. Seems like a long stretch to bridge without support.
It seems to me that this is exactly what you are talking about. If you put the case in horizontal position, then on the cover(the detachable panel) there is a small concave right above the power button. This is where the locking "tooth" is sticking out on the inner side of the cover. The concave is caused by the fact that this piece should be stamped down by two times the thickness of paint to make it perfectly even up there, but the thickness of paint is a fraction of millimetre, so it's hard to have perfectly adding up paint thickness of two surfaces to match up the stamped offset. Because of that it was left as is to keep some tension and prevent the case cover from rattling here.

If you are talking about this and about the depth of this gap, it can't be as deep as 1.5 mm as it would mean the cover surface is fully under the inner edge of the front panel bend. The metal sheet is 1 mm + paint thickness itself. I think you are overestimating the depth here, with 1.5 mm you could see to the inside of the front panel and there are inner pieces of the case base and cover that would prevent such bend from happening around the button area with PSU installed.

We know about this issue as some users wrote to us with photos of the case before it was assembled. The case needs to come together when it's assembled and it is designed for use with SFX PSU. The fact that it lays on the PSU is the part of how we are saving space and simplifying construction to do this.

We are thinking about ways to solve this because, while this shouldn't technically be a problem when the case is assembled, it's still a thing that makes some people not fully satisfied with the product without understanding why it's made this way. It shouldn't be like us giving a whole manual explaining the construction of the case to everyone and force them to read it to understand that some of the things they see as a problem, are not.

Also the situation here is that when you get the case you want to inspect it before assembling the system in it to eventually decide on the RMA, and this is pretty weird situation where you need to start assembling it to see that this cover edge not being reinforced is not a problem after you put the PSU inside.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Vesko

Khio

Caliper Novice
Dec 16, 2019
25
39
Hello Mr Zaber ! I'm very exited to hear about plan for a Sentry 3.0 !

So far my Sentry 2.0 have been rock solid and haven't disappointed me and I can't wait to see the new one ! As you said there isn't much things that can be changed without changing the overall design, wich is great !

I think the main thing to look at is trying to improve the thermal, we are probably all using overpowered hardware in that case, more than you would have expected because we all want our PC to be small and very powerfull and that's not really going well together, but here is my thoughts :

  • Like many here I wouldn't mind the case to be a little wider to allow 2.5 slots GPU and fitting slightly bigger CPU cooler ;
  • However the case is already really heavy and carrying it around in a bag is painful, would it be structurally damaging to make it less heavy ?
  • While I understand the usage of the pocket behind the GPU, I would probably just remove it and make vents behind the GPU, symetrical to the ones on the other side ;
  • What about hexagonal holes in the case instead of round ? Is it that much more expensive to make ? Is it ugly ?

Now thanks to Sony with Playstation 5 the size of "console sized PC case" have slightly increased... 😂

Good luck for Sentry 3.0 !
 
Last edited:

Barracuda727

Average Stuffer
May 27, 2018
68
10
When we see some news about sentry 3.0, cant wait anymore, share some pics at least of some metal with new hexagon holes....