Stalled S700: Salvo Studios <23L ATX Steel Watercooled Unibody Chassis

duynguyenle

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Aug 20, 2019
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I concur about the front I/O, for cases on the larger end of the spectrum like this, I think some sort of front I/O is pretty much a requirement (for me, smaller cases can get away with it since it can either be positioned closer to you or the compact dimentions means moving it around to reach the ports isn't as much of a stretch). With the 20 pin E-Type USB header becoming ubiquitous on even mid-range boards (majority of midrange X570 and Z490 boards so far have included this port, and even ITX boards have started including this with the new wave of Z490 ITX boards), I think including a front panel IO section that can take advantage of this would be a good forward-looking decision. I think the latest revision of the NCase M1 already comes with E-Type header for its front IO for this reason.

I would also appreciate if the front panel can support 360mm rad + front panel IO concurrently (does the current iteration support 360mm radiator? The latest render shows a 280mm one and it looks like the case might not be tall enough to support 360mm radiator when you consider the depth of the end tanks).

As for the tray ridigity, I'm not sure about the whole 'art in the making thing', fairly sure it's just engineering in the making. Fundamentally you could consider including a small bent flange to the front edge of the tray to improve bending rigidity, but without some sort of physical connection to the roof or front edge of the case, the upper outer edge of the tray is always gonna have a degree of play (it's just acting as an end-supported cantilever beam at this point). I see you've included additional support at the bottom edge of the tray (triangular web at the bottom riveted to the case floor right? It's not 100% clear from the render).

I see two main approach to alleviate the tray 'wobbling' off the top of my head:
  • Extend the triangular support at the bottom into a small bent flange that extends the full length of the tray, this would reduce maximum deflection at the top of the tray, but will not eliminate this entirely (this has the side benefit of being able to do useful things with the flange, like putting small slots in for cable tie points)
  • Have a physical connection from the top of the tray to the top/front of the case, either as an integral part of the tray or as a small L-bracket that's screwed /riveted into the tray and outer wall of the case. This will better address the amount of play/wobble (might even eliminate it entirely depending on implementation) but the downside is it will bisect the case either at the front or the top, limiting the radiator length allowance for either the front panel or the roof.
Maybe an alternative would be for some sort of post that would rest against the side panel when closed, but this doesn't really solve the issue.

Looking forward to seeing what kind of implementation you come up with!
 
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Vacceo

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Mar 17, 2020
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If you take a look at previous pages, you´ll see that a front 360 radiator was an option at some point. In some renders, the case reached almost 30l in volume.

The logic to reduce to dual 280 comes from several factors being volume reduction the most important. Also, the cooling capacity you get from a 320 to a 280 rad is not that, that different. Well, yes, you can push good fans to the limit and get an extra peak for overclocking; I have done so with noctuas but the end result is typically not worth it for everyday use, even hard use. At those levels we are considering very high end hardware and a bit luck on the silicon lottery.

A little note: I consider the works of engineers as art too. The creative process for a device or artifact, particularly when it adresses issues and solves them, is something quite amazing to behold.
 
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duynguyenle

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Aug 20, 2019
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The main reason I wanted 360mm radiator is due to the amazing NF-A12x25 fans I already got, which performs better than anything in the rest of their entire lineup in terms of noise to performance (yes, even better than their NF-A14 fans, which really start to get noisy above about 900rpm or so). The whole thing about the A12x25 is that you can push a trio of them to 1800rpm and they still subjectively sound quieter than 2xNF-A14 at 1200rpm. And they perform well even with high backpressure radiators, and they work wonders on my GTR360 radiators. That said, if the case now only supports 280 radiators for volume reduction, I suppose I'll have to live with that.

As an engineer with zero artistic talent, I don't see any inherent similarities between the process for developing engineering solutions vs creating a piece of art. There's certainly a type of elegance in looking at a well-designed solution for problems at hand, balancing the time/cost/complexity constaints while satisfying project requirements, but my mind has a hard time comparing this to anything artsy in nature.
 
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Vacceo

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Mar 17, 2020
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Well, what can I say, I really appreciate what people like van der Rohe, Gropius or even Kalashnikov did. The "function makes form" aesthetic criteria is something I absolutely love.

I have used the A12x25 several times and and I have to agree on your words: they are powerhouses. To the point that have seen them cooling thick radiators such as a HWL GTX even in push without having to crank up the RPM. The balance tradeoff here is that the final volume of the whole case would increase perhaps way beyond the designer original goals. That is up to him. Hopefully noctua will put their A12x25 on steroids and design the "A14x25" at some point...

On the other hand, the other possibility is making the case longer, so the 320 goes on the upper section with a 280 to the front. That adds extra length and total volume. but it also allows for a thicker front radiator.

On the other hand, we need to lobby EK so they sell their VTX pumps as standalones. They seem to have closed the gap between D5´s and DDC´s.
 
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duynguyenle

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Aug 20, 2019
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I would really like to test the VTX pumps, unfortunately the only way to get one right now is attached to their overpriced reservoirs. Hopefully they offer it for sale separately, but I've seen no announcements on that front.
 
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Vacceo

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Mar 17, 2020
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I would really like to test the VTX pumps, unfortunately the only way to get one right now is attached to their overpriced reservoirs. Hopefully they offer it for sale separately, but I've seen no announcements on that front.
There´s a review on the news section. It looks quite promising.
 

grsychckn

King of Cable Management
Original poster
Salvo Studios
Gold Supporter
Oct 11, 2017
929
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I concur about the front I/O, for cases on the larger end of the spectrum like this, I think some sort of front I/O is pretty much a requirement (for me, smaller cases can get away with it since it can either be positioned closer to you or the compact dimentions means moving it around to reach the ports isn't as much of a stretch). With the 20 pin E-Type USB header becoming ubiquitous on even mid-range boards (majority of midrange X570 and Z490 boards so far have included this port, and even ITX boards have started including this with the new wave of Z490 ITX boards), I think including a front panel IO section that can take advantage of this would be a good forward-looking decision. I think the latest revision of the NCase M1 already comes with E-Type header for its front IO for this reason.

I would also appreciate if the front panel can support 360mm rad + front panel IO concurrently (does the current iteration support 360mm radiator? The latest render shows a 280mm one and it looks like the case might not be tall enough to support 360mm radiator when you consider the depth of the end tanks).

As for the tray ridigity, I'm not sure about the whole 'art in the making thing', fairly sure it's just engineering in the making. Fundamentally you could consider including a small bent flange to the front edge of the tray to improve bending rigidity, but without some sort of physical connection to the roof or front edge of the case, the upper outer edge of the tray is always gonna have a degree of play (it's just acting as an end-supported cantilever beam at this point). I see you've included additional support at the bottom edge of the tray (triangular web at the bottom riveted to the case floor right? It's not 100% clear from the render).

I see two main approach to alleviate the tray 'wobbling' off the top of my head:
  • Extend the triangular support at the bottom into a small bent flange that extends the full length of the tray, this would reduce maximum deflection at the top of the tray, but will not eliminate this entirely (this has the side benefit of being able to do useful things with the flange, like putting small slots in for cable tie points)
  • Have a physical connection from the top of the tray to the top/front of the case, either as an integral part of the tray or as a small L-bracket that's screwed /riveted into the tray and outer wall of the case. This will better address the amount of play/wobble (might even eliminate it entirely depending on implementation) but the downside is it will bisect the case either at the front or the top, limiting the radiator length allowance for either the front panel or the roof.
Maybe an alternative would be for some sort of post that would rest against the side panel when closed, but this doesn't really solve the issue.

Looking forward to seeing what kind of implementation you come up with!
Great points all around. I've already thought about the solutions you mention and I'm thinking right now I might like to see just how "flimsy" it would be without any support. The model may not show it but I have flanges all the way around the mainboard tray so that will provide some stability - as well as the angled flange near the front of the case. I may have to produce a prototype just to see how it feels but there will be flex so long as there is no connection from that corner to the outer shell of the chassis.
 

grsychckn

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Salvo Studios
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Oct 11, 2017
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The only thing I will add at this point is that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Art, not art - doesn't matter to me. I just want a functional case that presents something unique to the market. No point in doing it if there already is a product that is 90% similar. If someone thinks it's art, that enters into more of a philosophical debate than anything else but I will admit that it encourages me to know that there it inspires such a reaction.

Regardless, I'm going to try and tweak the design a bit more today and get some updates. I've already sent out feelers to the two main fabricators I've used in the past that I want to get some quotes for two prototypes and a small production run.
 

Vacceo

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Mar 17, 2020
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I know you´re busy with the release of the S402 case (I´m very glad it´s coming along nicely!), so due to that release and the experience gained, will the S700 be coated too? It seems to give it a very nice finish.
 

grsychckn

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Original poster
Salvo Studios
Gold Supporter
Oct 11, 2017
929
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I know you´re busy with the release of the S402 case (I´m very glad it´s coming along nicely!), so due to that release and the experience gained, will the S700 be coated too? It seems to give it a very nice finish.
Yes, the S700 will be powder coated as well - most likely using the same fine texture black color as the S402. I've not had any time to make any progress on the S700, but I do think I have an idea to make the mainboard tray more stable. Nothing exotic, just extending the flange over to the PSU side panel and attaching with fasteners (including large holes for airflow to the top radiator.
 
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Vacceo

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Mar 17, 2020
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I want to congratulate grsychckn on the successful release of the S402 as it is a very fine project and a great case. Good job sir, really good job on functionality, fit and finish.

On a greedier side, I hope the release runs smooth and satisfactory for all parts because that means the S700 gets closer too. ;)
 

HYPERBOLOCO

Chassis Packer
Sep 27, 2015
14
1
The case idea looks awesome.

Just wanted to ask you to please consider keeping in an extra PCIE slot or two (even if LP). If the case can't support a second GPU because of structural integrity a lot of people would still make use of them for lighter SSD, sound, capture cards, etc.
 

grsychckn

King of Cable Management
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Salvo Studios
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Oct 11, 2017
929
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The case idea looks awesome.

Just wanted to ask you to please consider keeping in an extra PCIE slot or two (even if LP). If the case can't support a second GPU because of structural integrity a lot of people would still make use of them for lighter SSD, sound, capture cards, etc.
For some reason I just saw this. I plan on adding a PCIe slot if at all possible. Following July 4th, I'm going to switch back to this project
 
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Vacceo

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For some reason I just saw this. I plan on adding a PCIe slot if at all possible. Following July 4th, I'm going to switch back to this project
I´ll light up a couple fireworks for you! Thanks and please, keep us updated. By the end of this year, a new computer will have a home. :)
 
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