S4 MINI Classic (S4M-C)

[Josh | NFC]

There is no other place to put the SSD. You can always go with a 1060

As far as painting the case, Orange Plastidip (known as BLAZE ORANGE) is a HORRIBLE mixture for aersol and does NOT work well. I don't know what it is about that color, but stay the heck away from it. It is a well documented issue and you can read reviews all over the web about how it does not spray well to say the LEAST.

 

[CubanLegend]

There is no other place to put the SSD. You can always go with a 1060

As far as painting the case, Orange Plastidip (known as BLAZE ORANGE) is a HORRIBLE mixture for aersol and does NOT work well. I don't know what it is about that color, but stay the heck away from it. It is a well documented issue and you can read reviews all over the web about how it does not spray well to say the LEAST.

Okay, I'll stay away from that BLAZE ORANGE plastidip. What else do you recommend I use that I removeable and is orange or dark orange red/orange? Doesn't have to be perfect.
Bit-tech just did a review of the 1080mini.
https://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2017/02/07/zotac-geforce-gtx-1080-mini-review/1

Here's two nice excerpts I noticed:

• "In actual games, the Zotac GTX 1080 Mini typically only loses out to faster GTX 1080 cards by 1-2 fps."
• "One benefit of being a smaller card is lower power consumption. Our total system power consumption of 322W- -when overclocking the card does appear to be quite heavily power-limited- -In fact, with an extra 300MHz applied to the core and the memory running at 11Gbps, power consumption still only peaked at 331W."

So this thing was tested in a system with a z170 and an overclocked 6700k, maxing out at 331W peak. Doable for the Dell330, especially considering the HDPLEX can peak up to 400. I MIGHT ACTUALLY consider sending my Dell330 to G-unique for the 400W mod. with a newer CPU and chipset (z270i/7700k) , I should see lower power consumption numbers than a z170/6700k, so I might not even need to mod my Dell300 at all.

Here's the kicker! (temperature related):

• "The temperature reading really surprised us: The GPU was kept below 60°C throughout testing, giving us a delta T reading on 43°C. Now, we were testing on a fairly cold day, but even so this is a brilliant result – we had to double-check it to be certain. As you might expect, the fans were louder than they were on other larger GTX 1080s we've played with, but they weren't loud in and of themselves. Spinning up to about 1,500 RPM, the sound was more of a quiet hum than anything distracting, and in a system not designed specifically for low noise, you'd be hard pressed to hear them at all, depending on how close you sit to your PC. When idle, the card's fans drop to their lowest available speed, which is 37 percent (approximately 1,150RPM), at which point the card is almost impossible to hear in a normal system. Even better news is that when we manually limited the fans to this minimum speed, the delta T only went up to 47°C, although the average boost speed did also drop by about 30MHz or so."

So in a regular case, the 1080mini was always below 60C EVEN when overclocked! Inside the S4mini during gaming though... we'll see how warm/quiet it REALLY is, I can always up the fan curve to keep it below 60c, and fan noise wont bother me as I have speakers/headphones while gaming. So... regarding my SSDs and the 1080mini... Here's how I'm seeing this @Josh | NFC ... HDD operating temperatures are 5c to 60c, so if the 1080mini stays below 60c I'm okay... I have backups of everything thats on that 2TB 7mm SSHD and the 5TB 2.5in 15mm HDD, so I'll go balls to the wall and mount them on the back of the 1080mini and just update my backups regularly in case one or both get cooked.

I can feel the forums readers here looking at this post like I'm crazy, but you're right, I am.

 

[Zero]

With all due respect. Again, with lower TDP chips the Engine 27 isn't that noisy and cools very well if the the rpms are kept under 3500. In fact, I honestly have found it to be more quiet than my Cryorig C7 and it cools slightly better... all in an improved SFF. Where is the "snake oil" in an extremely low-profile, all metal product that is recommended for lower TDP chips? Though I do agree with you wholeheartedly that Sandia had a much better technology and product developed... maybe it just wasn't possible to manufacture and mass produce it economically yet???

The chip that I'm using which the Engine 27 idles loudly on is in fact a Pentium G3258 of all things, which even overclocked maxes at about 50w on Prime95 according to HWMonitor. My stock Intel cooler was quieter at idle (not at load, but nothing is louder than intel stock at load, haha).

How you got it to outperform a C7, I have no idea. Even Josh's quick comparison video showed the C7 beating it up by 11c. I get that was a P95 load, but I doubt it magically crosses over to beat it at a lower load.

I love Thermaltake's Core V1, I've actually built like 5 different PCs with that case and it's what I use now until my S4 is operational. So I don't have anything against them, I just feel like they couldn't get the cooler to perform as promised so as delivered it's a $50 gimmick.

The regular bearings are necessary. Otherwise a slight bump to the case could cause the fan to crash into the baseplate and then bad things would happen.

A slight bump on two metal surfaces both polished to a mirror finish (and maybe coated with something like a thin teflon layer) wouldn't do anything adverse. Yeah, it's bad when a hard drive crashes because the needle will carve a pit into the platter (like a record player keeps hitting the same scratch and it gets worse), but two flat surfaces would be fine unless some very particulates infiltrated the space in between coolers.

Anyway, I'm no expert, it just feels phoned in. Unless you're always gaming with earbuds or have bad tinnitus and want to pay a premium for cosmetics, it's hard to make a case for buying the E27.

 

[Zero]

I MIGHT ACTUALLY consider sending my Dell330 to G-unique for the 400W mod.

What is this mod you speak of? Is the technique published anywhere? I'm handy with a soldering iron so I could try it myself. Though, I'd imagine the CPU and GPU together would be limited by cooling/stability far before reaching 400w pull.

 

[CubanLegend]

What is this mod you speak of? Is the technique published anywhere? I'm handy with a soldering iron so I could try it myself. Though, I'd imagine the CPU and GPU together would be limited by cooling/stability far before reaching 400w pull.

I'm not sure what it is but the guy has a thread here: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/g-unique-plug-play-dc-atx-oversea-edition-preview.1348/

Let us know if he posts what the difference is between the stock 330 and the 400W/500W variants.

 

[Zero]

I'm not sure what it is but the guy has a thread here: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/g-unique-plug-play-dc-atx-oversea-edition-preview.1348/

Let us know if he posts what the difference is between the stock 330 and the 400W/500W variants.

I think you misunderstood what he's selling. He has a Pico PSU which can be set to draw a limit of 300/400 watts etc. The Dell brick is still rated for 330w and I do not believe he modifies that.

On the other hand I'm sure I've gone over 330w on the Dell, I believe it has a little wiggleroom above it's top wattage (as many PSUs do) where the it will maybe start to fall out of spec (i.e. more ripple or something) before it actually triggers an overcurrent shutdown.

Still, like you posted, with an overclocked 6700k the whole system topped at 330w.

That's one of the things I like about the S4 Mini, it is designed for a laptop brick and there's practically nothing you can put into it that will exceed the 330w brick. It is matched really well to the current state of the art components and as we keep moving forward with more die shrinks for CPU/GPU is it just going to keep getting better with age. But as it stands, it's right on the edge of being as small as you can get while still having full upgradability, and having the best components before you hit the land of diminishing returns.

 

[Curiosity]

In their preorder form it says they mod the bricks somehow for the higher wattages

 

[CubanLegend]

I think you misunderstood what he's selling. He has a Pico PSU which can be set to draw a limit of 300/400 watts etc. The Dell brick is still rated for 330w and I do not believe he modifies that.

On the other hand I'm sure I've gone over 330w on the Dell, I believe it has a little wiggleroom above it's top wattage (as many PSUs do) where the it will maybe start to fall out of spec (i.e. more ripple or something) before it actually triggers an overcurrent shutdown.

Still, like you posted, with an overclocked 6700k the whole system topped at 330w.

That's one of the things I like about the S4 Mini, it is designed for a laptop brick and there's practically nothing you can put into it that will exceed the 330w brick. It is matched really well to the current state of the art components and as we keep moving forward with more die shrinks for CPU/GPU is it just going to keep getting better with age. But as it stands, it's right on the edge of being as small as you can get while still having full upgradability, and having the best components before you hit the land of diminishing returns.

Yeah the G-unique guy mods that brick to what seems to be 400W and 500W as well. He's had them up for sale on taobao.com for some time. I'm really curious as to what he does to them since we seem to cherish the 330W so much considering we dont really have any other brick that can handle more than 330 aside from that oddly shaped Voodoo 350 brick.

I sent him a PM and will report back on what info there is on the 400/500W variants.

 

[Zero]

Whee!!

Thinner aluminum than I expected, and comes with two screws. There's some aluminum humps on those middle holes to allow for deeper threads for the screws to grip in to.

Plate is not quite as big vertically as the GPU opening, but it does cover the entire GPU, so you could cover that opening with anything else if you cared.

You can see the thread bumps from overhead here.

If you use a Dremel with the bit I show (9904 Tungsten Carbide Cutter) and stick it into the middle hole, you can start widening the hole and suddenly the thread hump will pop off when it gets wide enough. Then the plate is flush.

For now I stuck it to the case using dual-lock black velcro as tape (the adhesive side is very strong and the velcro side is very stiff.

Looks neat, I guess.

Pictured above is the Arctic Mono VGA cooler. This will not fit on any GPU stock, it is like 51mm high which is too much for the case.

I might still try modding it to my CPU though. It may barely be able to fit with a 12-13mm fan, according to my calipers.

Comedy option: When you can't quite fit the fan and heatsink in the case, why not use a big heatsink (like the Prolimatech PRO-SAM17 six-heatpipe 45mm tall cooler), then jam a 200mm fan to the outside of the case? The screws line up with the case slots so you could actually bolt it on.

Might be a fun mod to combine with the acrylic window. Watch your fingers!

 

[Hackersremix]

I wanted to bolt an outside external fan as a way to force air out of the case.

 

[Sean Crees]

I really recommend it for your build. The 1070 is so hot I wouldn't use a drive to cover it, but instead recommend putting a slim fan over the backside.

Is the slim 120mm fan on the backside really needed? The Dan case doesn't have any case fans, and has the back of the graphics card right up against the back of the motherboard and it seems to work fine. I would think the layout in the S4 mini would be better (thermally) than that setup.

 

[Josh | NFC]

I can't speak for other people's cases. My case does have ALOT of venting, but let's throw out cases for a moment.

The 1070's backside can reach 70C with the chip under 12000 BTU of liquid cooling in an open case. I'm looking for the thermal images I have of it but this card's backside gets really REALLY hot.

So it is up to you wether you want to cool it or not. I've build several systems with these cards (in MINIs) for customers without putting an fan over the back, but the fan makes me feel alot more comfortable and I am doing it from now on.

...I just make cases, not telling anyone how to live their life.

 

[Sicaris]

Out of curiosity, do you see significant heating of the backside of 1060s?

 

[Josh | NFC]

Out of curiosity, do you see significant heating of the backside of 1060s?

I have had several of the two 6GB 1060 MINIs from EVGA and all of them have fairly cool backsides.

The Zotac 1080's backside is also surprisingly cool, but the backplate is 100% for show (other than for increasing card's rigidity). There is no thermal transfer tape so I need to do testing to see if there is build up.

I am thinking Gigabyte put features on the backside of the 1070MINI to make the card smaller that are on the topside of the 1080. The Memory VRM appears to be on the backside of the 1070 and I haven't gotten a close look on the 1080. I am NOT a PCB guy though, unlike a dozen amazing people on this forum can chime in.

 

[CubanLegend]

The Zotac 1080's backside is also surprisingly cool, but the backplate is 100% for show (other than for increasing card's rigidity). There is no thermal transfer tape so I need to do testing to see if there is build up.

I am thinking Gigabyte put features on the backside of the 1070MINI to make the card smaller that are on the topside of the 1080. The Memory VRM appears to be on the backside of the 1070 and I haven't gotten a close look on the 1080. I am NOT a PCB guy though, unlike a dozen amazing people on this forum can chime in.

That's great news about the 1080 having a cool backside. You try removing the 1080mini's backplate to see how hot that back of the card is actually getting?

I wonder if having the backplate on, if it would act as a heat shield for the HDD/SSDs I'd have in the SSD bracket.

 

[Tek Everything]

Hey guys, is anyone running the Zotac 1060 6GB in their mini? If so are you seeing temps over 80C?

 

[CXH4]

Hey guys, is anyone running the Zotac 1060 6GB in their mini? If so are you seeing temps over 80C?

I run a 1060, but I have the clock speed lowered as well as the power draw, and I never see any temps above 70°C.

 

[eutholevonik]

Hey guys, is anyone running the Zotac 1060 6GB in their mini? If so are you seeing temps over 80C?

My friend has that card in his ATX case and it's usually hitting 75c. I remember him asking me about it because he thought it should be a lot cooler.

 

[Tek Everything]

Yea, this card is running hot even in open air testing, I hit 90C with a simple 200MHz overclock... I may have to switch to the EVGA Superclocked version.

 

[Josh | NFC]

This is just my opinion, but I don't think the SC version is necessary. They both benchmark pretty close, and the cooler is ALOT beefier on the SC version, but the heat output is really similar. I would definitely consider the SC version if the heatsink made contact with VRM and Memory, but it only covers the GPU die so all that is air cooled anyway...

If you have the extra money, don't care about weight, and your case vents bi-directionally well, then go for it. I go with the normal version unless customers specifically ask for it now.

Peace!