• Save 15% on ALL SFF Network merch, until Dec 31st! Use code SFF2024 at checkout. Click here!

S4 MINI Classic (S4M-C)

nfilipac

Chassis Packer
Nov 11, 2016
14
16
Thanks for the info on Kaby Lake. Agree with you on newer (might) be better.

And I did misunderstand your point about the 1060/1070. Thanks for the clarification.

I've been looking more at some of the challenges of fitting a full sized GPU in the S4. I love the idea of a backpackable case like the S4 mini (and I love the way it looks) - but I'm wondering if i'm expecting too much out of it. If this is to be my primary box at home, I'm beginning to think I might want to relax my size requirements... Time to reevaluate a bit.

Thank Lampshade!

In addition to lampshades thoughts, if you're going to go with a non k chip, it could save you some money if you decide to buy a h170 or b150 motherboard. I'm currently using an asrock h170 itx board I bought for around $70 paired with an i5 6600 non k and it's served me well.

Of course, there's the issue that if you upgrade down to line to a k series chip you would regret not getting a z170 board. Just a thought to consider.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Josh | NFC

Kmpkt

Innovation through Miniaturization
KMPKT
Feb 1, 2016
3,382
5,936
Considering Kaby Lake is the last chip on the Z170 chipset, you're probably not going to upgrade anyways.
 

Shaun

Chassis Packer
Apr 23, 2016
17
37
Just a poll - does anyone have any issue with the case heating up substantially when under load?

Usually the front of the case gets hot as most mini ITX GPUs vent hot air in two directions - one out the back where the ports are (usually very little) and one out the front - in which case most of the hot air is vented straight into the front of the case. Being aluminum the case then soaks it up and becomes hot to the touch.

Wonder if anyone had a solution to force the air out the back i.e. blower style in ITX???

I tried removing the shroud and using a thin 120mm fan at the back, but performance was even worse than stock cooler, not to mention the terrible noise profile at high speeds (Scythe 120mm x 12mm)

I've tested both the zotac 1060 and gigabyte 1070, and the case heats up either way.

let me know!

-Shaun
 

hat1324

Cable-Tie Ninja
Dec 28, 2015
146
100
Just a poll - does anyone have any issue with the case heating up substantially when under load?

Usually the front of the case gets hot as most mini ITX GPUs vent hot air in two directions - one out the back where the ports are (usually very little) and one out the front - in which case most of the hot air is vented straight into the front of the case. Being aluminum the case then soaks it up and becomes hot to the touch.

Wonder if anyone had a solution to force the air out the back i.e. blower style in ITX???

I tried removing the shroud and using a thin 120mm fan at the back, but performance was even worse than stock cooler, not to mention the terrible noise profile at high speeds (Scythe 120mm x 12mm)

I've tested both the zotac 1060 and gigabyte 1070, and the case heats up either way.

let me know!

-Shaun
The case is a heatsink. Heating it cools your PC. But if you're looking at how to cool it off, you can go blower style and also avoid the CNPS2X CPU cooler. The HDPLEX also gets very hot so make sure it's not making direct contact with the case
 

Josh | NFC

Not From Concentrate
Original poster
NFC Systems
Jun 12, 2015
1,869
4,468
www.nfc-systems.com
@fjbruening I second/third/fourth what others have said regarding CPU and motherboard choice. Honestly the new i3 6100 is pretty slick. New hardware even on the "low" end spectrum is just so wicked fast. It is an awesome time to be building PCs. I know it is so tempting to want to put the high end stuff in a build, but if you are truly just looking for a fantastic 1080p experience, you can do the i3 6100 with a 1060 and a VNAND SSD and have a killer system. Even the 1050 is pretty sweet for most things at 1080p.

Money isn't the only tradeoff, the other is heat, which is my next question to answer:

Just a poll - does anyone have any issue with the case heating up substantially when under load?


I actually have been using the front bezel as a heatsink for the HDPLEX for my custom builds. I use thermal padding against the HDPLEX aluminum backplate. You can go crazy and put some thermal paste in between the chassis and the front bezel too, but that is a bit extreme.

As far as the GPU cooling, I'm going to dump my thoughts on the table and you can see if anything is useful to you.

There are better ways to keep parts in a 4L chassis cool than the S4 Design. The S3 is a far better thermal layout. One day I will bring it back (with some new breakthroughs) to serve the needs of customers who want to pack as much high performance stuff in a small box.

I don't think the S4 MINI's thermal design is flawed, however, as it was meticulously designed. It started off being capable of exhausting a tremendous amount more heat, but the goals of the chassis (combined with the extremely small market) had me trade those benefits for customer CHOICE. The S4 MINI starts off as elegant as I can make it. With two mods you can bring back the cooling efficiency, but they will dramatically (or minimally) impact the design depending on how much time and money and artistry you put into them.

The ideal TDP for the unmodified S4 MINI <50w for the CPU, and <100w for the GPU. At those TDPs the system will be able to maintain a cool environment. You can build a pretty slick system for this TDP range now too. This might seem low, but I would respectfully ask you to consider the cooling performance of other small form factor cases available for retail. I'm hesitant to release comparisons myself of the Raven RVZ0 or the Node 202 but just compare the venting of the MINI to them.

Now 90%+ of my customers exceed this by a huge range. The 285ITX, ASUS 970, and Gigabyte 1070 account for 80% of my custom builds, and NO system I have ever been asked to build was under 185W. They choose the high temperatures as their poison for having so much burst power at their fingertips. That being said, removing the bezel allows your GPU to exhaust as much heat as its heatsink design allows while in the vertical format. Adding ventilation to the top will allow for the adequate cooling of 85W CPUs with the Noctua NH-L9i.

It just depends on how far you want to go to dress it up. :)

I am waiting on Xen right now to invest my S4 MINI, but I will have some examples of what you can do as a modder to enhance your MINI. I would ideally like to have a gofundme or something so I can get a decent sized CNC in my shop so I can do the mods and personalized engraving for your guys myself. But anything I do offer on my website I will provide CAD for so you can get it done locally!

Peace
 

Shaun

Chassis Packer
Apr 23, 2016
17
37
Now 90%+ of my customers exceed this by a huge range. The 285ITX, ASUS 970, and Gigabyte 1070 account for 80% of my custom builds, and NO system I have ever been asked to build was under 185W. They choose the high temperatures as their poison for having so much burst power at their fingertips. That being said, removing the bezel allows your GPU to exhaust as much heat as its heatsink design allows while in the vertical format. Adding ventilation to the top will allow for the adequate cooling of 85W CPUs with the Noctua NH-L9i.

The case is a heatsink. Heating it cools your PC. But if you're looking at how to cool it off, you can go blower style and also avoid the CNPS2X CPU cooler. The HDPLEX also gets very hot so make sure it's not making direct contact with the case

Thanks guys! I don't think it's the issue with the case per se - the GPUs just vent the wrong way IMO. I've tried a variation of cards, and almost all of them vent more through the side with no ports, rather than the side with venting grilles. I've also looked at the GPU cooler designs, and someone should come up with a blower style ITX sized cooler! it's definitely possible as there's quite a fair bit of wasted space above the vrms and caps - too bad i know nothing about designing heatsinks.


Again just to emphasize, i have no problems whatsoever with the S4s, was just wondering if anyone was actively cooling theirs in some other way.

Cheers
Shaun
 

kirin

Chassis Packer
Jul 1, 2016
17
6
I have a modded s4 with a Gigabyte 1070, initially I do get lower temps with modded panel, heat does build up after an hour or two. I am keeping the fan speed under 45% though.
 

Josh | NFC

Not From Concentrate
Original poster
NFC Systems
Jun 12, 2015
1,869
4,468
www.nfc-systems.com
I have a modded s4 with a Gigabyte 1070, initially I do get lower temps with modded panel, heat does build up after an hour or two. I am keeping the fan speed under 45% though.

Yeah the 1070 mini gets really super hot even on my open test bench with 11,000 BTU capacity liquid cooling AND a 120mm fan over the card...which I have covered in stick on heats inks...

Check out the back side, which has a 140mm NOCTUA blowing on it...

 

Josh | NFC

Not From Concentrate
Original poster
NFC Systems
Jun 12, 2015
1,869
4,468
www.nfc-systems.com
I agree, Shaun. Hot GPUs for mini ITX with a blower seem like a natural fit.

Having some insight into two manufacturers of graphics cards I am sad to say there are several reasons why we probably won't see that trend. :(
 
  • Like
Reactions: Soul_Est

hat1324

Cable-Tie Ninja
Dec 28, 2015
146
100
Hey Josh, you know waht would be really cool? A VESA mount for the S4. Maybe one that slots into the side vents
 

Josh | NFC

Not From Concentrate
Original poster
NFC Systems
Jun 12, 2015
1,869
4,468
www.nfc-systems.com
Well, the EXACT screws I can't help you with. I specced something different than what the manufacturer used, which is some hybrid metic/standard concoction that is both 6-32 and metric in length. I'm sure someone on this forum might know what they are.

I think you actually might be able to find a 110 degree 6-32 in 3/16" length...I also recommend finding cool looking heads for 6-32 and experimenting.
 

MODZERO

Average Stuffer
Jul 9, 2016
86
337
www.instagram.com
Hi Guys,

I'm gonna kick off my S4 MINI build log really soon... but for now, I wanted to share this. I received my S4 Mini with naked unfinished panels (by request), sent them to a buddy of mine (UK modder B-NEG), he kindly applied the paint job (BMW ESTORIL BLUE). I've had the panels back for a while but with the number of clearcoat layers BNEG applied I left them until yesterday to cut and polish.



I can't decide which way up I want it..



I just got a little too excited and didn't want to wait, haha.

J.
 
Last edited:

Josh | NFC

Not From Concentrate
Original poster
NFC Systems
Jun 12, 2015
1,869
4,468
www.nfc-systems.com
Hi Guys,

I'm gonna kick off my S4 MINI build log really soon... but for now, I wanted to share this. I received my S4 Mini with naked unfinished panels (by request), sent them to a buddy of mine (UK modder B-NEG), he kindly applied the paint job (BMW ESTORIL BLUE). I've had the panels back for a while but with the number of clearcoat layers BNEG applied I left them until yesterday to cut and polish.



I can't decide which way up I want it..



I just got a little too excited and didn't want to wait, haha.

J.

I peed in my pants a little. Not going to lie...