S4 MINI Classic (S4M-C)

[kittysox]

January 1 I believe is when shipments are expected.

 

[McTeags]

Getting ready for bed at midnight. Checks NFC YouTube page. Sees 22 minute video on a new S4M. FML...

Being able to remove the bottom outer casing with four screws. Have to like how easy it is to swap out an M.2 SSD on the bottom of your motherboard in an SFF build

Edit:

Also, I 100% agree with Josh that being able to remove the front bezel probably makes installing the GPU way easier.

 

[Parge]

Josh do you know how long it'll take from preorders to shipment on these new chassis?

Sounds like Jan from the video.

 

[DocH]

Josh do you know how long it'll take from preorders to shipment on these new chassis?

Preorder open the 24 I think and he stated he is shipping jan 2018

 

[CubanLegend]

So, bad news about the TITAN TTC-NC25/HS...
Using Prime 95v 26.6, after 10 minutes (both with the NF-A9x14):
TITAN TTC-2 maxed out & thermal throttled to 99c in only 2 minutes on the hottest core...DAMN IT! And yes I reapplied the thermal paste again to check)
LP53 maxes at 78c on hottest core (other cores were 2-3c lower) "NOTE" I did both tests with the SIDE PANELS OFF, then I put the side panels back on after 10 minutes to arrive at 78c. But the LP53 without both side panels, the CPU's hottest core stayed at... 70c after 10 minutes! thats an 8c drop, WOW! Note, the test I did BEFORE installing the Titan, had the LP53 at 80c on the hottest core, so after reapplying the NT-H1 thermal paste, and putting it all back together, the temps at load after 10 minutes dropped by 2c from 80c on the LP53 down to my reported 78c. Neat!

Here's the problem:
The TITAN TTC-NC25/HS doesnt fully mate with the top of the 7700k on my ASUS STRIX z270i. I don't have a picture to illustrate it... but the The tiny caps around the CPU (on the side facing the rear I/O, and the side facing the CPU -8-pin plus, depending on how you orient the cooler) those caps don't allow full contact between the mating surface with the heatpipes of the cooler and the CPU's IHS. The mating surface is too large, sadly. I first tried with the heatpipe bends facing the rear I/O. And YES I did try rotating and reorienting the cooler 90 degrees (both ways) to see if i could get full contact with the CPU, no luck, the caps still get in the way. And after removing the heatsink, it was CLEAR to see that the thermal paste wasnt being spread properly because the cooler wasnt fully pushing down on the CPU's IHS...

EDIT1: I did have to offset the mounting brackets to get the Titan TTC-25 to fit inside the z270i in both orientations, with the heatpipe bends facing the read I/O and the bends facing the PCi-Ex slot. It did rub up against the bottom of the top-mounted M.2 shield on my z270i, but it was able to firmly mount on all sides, just not able to mate with the IHS fully due to the caps...

EDIT2: I did try the NF A12x15 and the Prolimatech 120x15mm slim fans using the old SkyBracket, cooling was better with the NHLi's NF-A9x14... the slim 120 fans had air turbulence issues and sounded louder, and performed between 8c and 10c worse in temps using the 10 minute Prime95 test.

I had taken a ton of photos comparing the size of the TITAN-TTC-NC25/HS to my LP53 (both with the NF-A9x14), you can see those pics here
(please excuse my hairy knees, lol):

size comparison:

Titan TTC-NC25/HS mounting hardware:

it has VERY adjustable screw locations! :

Mounted with the heatpipe bends facing the rear-I/O:

And then mounted facing the PCI-Ex slot:

In BOTH orientations, it wasnt fully mated to the CPU's IHS, and it was pushed up slightly on one side by the caps... in addition, it was making the fan push up against the S4 mini's side panel, giving 0mm of clearance, causing air turbulence and raising temps EVEN FASTER when the side panel was on during testing:

So all in all, i wasted some money and a couple hours only to find out that the LP53 was still king. but hey, at least I got a 2c drop in temps out of reapplying the NT-H1!

 

[DocH]

So, bad news about the TITAN TTC-NC25/HS...
Using Prime 95v 26.6, after 10 minutes (both with the NF-A9x14):
TITAN TTC-2 maxed out & thermal throttled to 99c in only 2 minutes on the hottest core...DAMN IT! And yes I reapplied the thermal paste again to check)
LP53 maxes at 78c on hottest core (other cores were 2-3c lower) "NOTE" I did both tests with the SIDE PANELS OFF, then I put the side panels back on after 10 minutes to arrive at 78c. But the LP53 without both side panels, the CPU's hottest core stayed at... 70c after 10 minutes! thats an 8c drop, WOW! Note, the test I did BEFORE installing the Titan, had the LP53 at 80c on the hottest core, so after reapplying the NT-H1 thermal paste, and putting it all back together, the temps at load after 10 minutes dropped by 2c from 80c on the LP53 down to my reported 78c. Neat!

Here's the problem:
The TITAN TTC-NC25/HS doesnt fully mate with the top of the 7700k on my ASUS STRIXS x270i. I don't have a picture to illustrate it... but the The tiny caps around the CPU (on the side facing the rear I/O, and the CPU -8-pin, depending on how you orient the cooler) those caps don't allow full contact between the mating surface with the heatpipes of the cooler and the CPU's IHS. The mating surface is too large, sadly. I first tried with the heatpipe bends facing the rear I/O. And YES I did try rotating and reorienting the cooler 90 degrees (both ways) to see if i could get full contact with the CPU, no luck, the caps still get in the way. And after removing the heatsink, it was CLEAR to see that the thermal paste wasnt being spread properly because the cooler wasnt fully pushing down on the CPU's IHS...

I had taken a ton of photos comparing the size of the TITAN-TTC-NC25/HS to my LP53 (both with the NF-A9x14), you can see those pics here
(please excuse my hairy knees, lol):


So all in all, i wasted some money and a couple hours only to find out that the LP53 was still king.

It was for science though!! Time well spent and money well paid!! You just saved tons of people from buying it. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

[kittysox]

Is there anyway to run the lp52 in place of the nhl9i like a shorter fan or anything?

 

[CubanLegend]

Is there anyway to run the lp52 in place of the nhl9i like a shorter fan or anything?

I'm sorry @kittysox I don't understand what you mean by your question? The NF-A9x14 is the shortest and best fan you could use for the LP53 and NHL9i, all other fans are too big, too loud, are 15mm's thick instead of 14mm, and if they are 120x15mm they are installed using the skybracket and thus, wont leave an airgap between the top of the fan and the side panel, causing air turbulence which raises noise and lowers performance, making temps higher slightly, etc.

But if you wanted to see a comparison between the NHL9i and the LP53 (both using the NF-A9x14), both in temps and in size, I have that comparison here in a post from my build log.

 

[CubanLegend]

sorry for the double post, catching up on tht thread after my Titan TTC-25 fun last night.

Okay, I installed my 8700K in the Z370-i and you were right, it needs about 1.5mm shim for the Dynatron T318 to clear the capacitors.

I found a few more interesting things:

- Someone actually got a Dynatron R15 (copper vapor chamber meant for 2011) working on his older Zotac 115X board, seems like he didn't run into capacitor clearance issues and the mounting pitch is just slightly off from a 115x so you can tilt the bolts slightly:
- Dynatron makes a model called the B6, it is a copper vapor chamber meant for LGA 3647, same dimensions as the R15 but the vapor chamber is slimmer. It looks like it might just barely avoid the capacitors if I mod it to my motherboard: https://www.dynatron.co/product-page/b6

Thinking I might give that one a whirl? The guy who actually got the R15 working said it dropped temps 37c vs his Cryorig C7 which is what I'm using now... that sounds insane and I'd be happy with half as much improvement.

this is the SAME issue I had with the Titan TTC-25, I couldn't clear the capacitors on my z270i STRIX board. I hope you figure it out bro, FOR SCIENCE! I'd love to see your temps, I'm still praying that I find something that BEATS the LP53 & NF-A9x14 combo I have, cuz it's the king right now.

So I tested the bricks tonight and that fan is dead quiet, it's moving just enough air internally to keep the temp below max. I have Kombuster and Aida 64 running overnight, if the brick doesn't reset overnight I think we have a winner. I'm averaging 430 watts using a wall wart, I'm sure the peaks are higher.

Since the fan is dead quite I can't actually get any audio of it, all I capture is the transient sound of my system fans. So scratch that idea.

I'll post Tuesday with the overnight results.

WOW! How were the overnight results?
Did you ever remember what the price of that brick and the 500W internal DC-DC was from Gury? I'm just curious, but id probably go for that 500W brick and an internal 500w DC-DC from him than the HDPLEX-400 to be honest, that's IF I ever decide to move up to the 1080ti and a 8700k, which i WONT DO since im satisfied where my 7700k/1080 are now. I'll wait till this time next year for the next wave of CPU's and mini GPU's to see if they are worth the upgrade for making4K gaming more viable in the long run. We'll see, ideally I'd like to stick with my CPU/GPU combo until it's obsolete and not worth it, in like 10 years.

So proud to have purchased one of the classic S4Ms. Definitely a "heirloom" case.

Same here bro, I'm so happy with my S4M-C!

 

[Reglar]

So I tested the bricks tonight and that fan is dead quiet, it's moving just enough air internally to keep the temp below max. I have Kombuster and Aida 64 running overnight, if the brick doesn't reset overnight I think we have a winner. I'm averaging 430 watts using a wall wart, I'm sure the peaks are higher.

Since the fan is dead quite I can't actually get any audio of it, all I capture is the transient sound of my system fans. So scratch that idea.

I'll post Tuesday with the overnight results.

So a follow-up to this. I let the stress test run 12 hours and then used a thermal temp gun on it at the end of the test. I had the brick on the floor just like most people would. The top of the brick was 68C, the bottom of the brick was 73C. Holding it didn't feel any hotter than the normal Dell bricks (I use a Dell laptop at work).

Now I have wood flooring at home, so carpet will likely be a bit hotter but not a lot hotter. A big thanks to Gury for the mod!

This test did give me another mod idea for my S4 mini case, but I'll continue it in my build log.

 

[CubanLegend]

So a follow-up to this. I let the stress test run 12 hours and then used a thermal temp gun on it at the end of the test. I had the brick on the floor just like most people would. The top of the brick was 68C, the bottom of the brick was 73C. Holding it didn't feel any hotter than the normal Dell bricks (I use a Dell laptop at work).

Now I have wood flooring at home, so carpet will likely be a bit hotter but not a lot hotter. A big thanks to Gury for the mod!

This test did give me another mod idea for my S4 mini case, but I'll continue it in my build log.

this is great news for anyone looking to get a 500 W power brick to pair with the 500 W internal DC/DC ArchDaemon from @guryhwa . of course the only people who would ever need that much wattage headroom would have to be those with 8700K's and 1080 TI minis or i-9's inside of an S4 Mini.

It definitely seems like the ultimate brick for a new, high power, no compromise system in an S4 Mini Classic and an S4M.

 

[Ionrent]

 

 

[CubanLegend]

Hey, thanks for doing this and sparing our wallets.

One thing I noticed is that it looks like you can offset the mounting brackets. Do you think that would help you clear the caps without causing other clearance issues (e.g. m.2 drive)?

no problem bro!

I didn't mention it in the post (I'll edit this into it now) but: I did have to offset the mounting brackets to get the Titan TTC-25 to fit with the heatpipe bends facing the PCi-Ex slot. It did rub up against the bottom of the top-mounted M.2 shield on my z270i, but it was able to firmly mount on all sides, just not able to mate with the IHS fully due to the caps...

I honestly wonder what it wouldve performed like if it could've fully mated, but i throw any fantasy of that out the window since it left 0mm of clearance between the NF-A9x14 and the side panel... so even if it DID mate fully it's performance would still suffer when the side panel is on. sucks. But at least I know the LP53 and NF-A9x14 is the king of S4 mini cooling, so far!

 

[Felidire]

Have you guys tested how positive vs negative pressure influences CPU temps in this case? Might be interesting with 2x 40mm exhaust fans and an upwards facing NF-A9x14 on the CPU. Might be worse, but I thought negative pressure usually yielded better cpu temps (in ordinary cases)?

 

[AP2]

@CubanLegend did you try using a 120mm fan instead of the 92mm fan? interesting that your cooler does not sit flat on the cpu. mine is dead flat on it. The cooler is now on my 8700K and it's been working awesome.

 

[kittysox]

I'm sorry @kittysox I don't understand what you mean by your question? The NF-A9x14 is the shortest and best fan you could use for the LP53 and NHL9i, all other fans are too big, too loud, are 15mm's thick instead of 14mm, and if they are 120x15mm they are installed using the skybracket and thus, wont leave an airgap between the top of the fan and the side panel, causing air turbulence which raises noise and lowers performance, making temps higher slightly, etc.

But if you wanted to see a comparison between the NHL9i and the LP53 (both using the NF-A9x14), both in temps and in size, I have that comparison here in a post from my build log.

Awesome thank you, I guess I worded my question poorly but I just wanted to ask if the lp53 would be short enough to work in the s4 with the noctua fan installed in place of the default fan on the lp53. Thanks for the link though, super informative and I’m not sure how I missed it.

 

[CubanLegend]

@CubanLegend did you try using a 120mm fan instead of the 92mm fan? interesting that your cooler does not sit flat on the cpu. mine is dead flat on it. The cooler is now on my 8700K and it's been working awesome.

Good point, I also forgot to mention this as well (I'll edit this in as well): I did try the NF A12x15 and the Prolimatech 120x15mm slim fans using the old SkyBracket, cooling was better with the NHLi's NF-A9x14... the slim 120 fans had air turbulence issues and sounded louder, and performed between 8c and 10c worse in temps using the 10 minute Prime95 test.

That's nice to hear that your Titan TTC-25 is fully mating, but note you have a different motherboard than I do. You're cooling your 8700k on a z370i, correct? I've got my 7700k on my z270i... so we may have different sized caps or caps that may have been shifted around?

I'd hope to be proven wrong though. Did you put the insulating washers on the bottom of the 4 mounting bolts? I did, I followed those instructions 100%, maybe you didnt and that gave you 0.5mm of space needed to fully mate with the IHS? Hmmm....

Awesome thank you, I guess I worded my question poorly but I just wanted to ask if the lp53 would be short enough to work in the s4 with the noctua fan installed in place of the default fan on the lp53. Thanks for the link though, super informative and I’m not sure how I missed it.

No problem, yes it does fit just fine with about 5-7mm of space between the top of the noctua fan and the side panel. It's perfect, just know you'll have to zip tie the fan onto the LP53 yourself.

 

[AP2]

@CubanLegend I originally had the same mobio as you, until I switched to the 8700k. It was perfect flat on mine. Let me take my cooler off and check how I have it setup.

 

[kittysox]

@CubanLegend honestly Cuban thank you for all you post on here, it has been tremendously helpful to me getting started in sff. Before my s4 I thought my caselabs s3 was small form factor!

 

[ngriesdo]

Well here the next project with the build log coming soon! It will be built in the NFC S4M-C #393! I can’t wait to do this project and share it here! Look out on the build log thread!