Discussion Performance per litre - Round 4

[SFFMunkee]

i'm here to post a submission, but i agree sub 1L~ cases are OP.
(Liters^1.5)+1 might be enough to fix the issue. (then you're never dividing by a fraction).

Proposition:
(R23*TimeSpy / (Liters^1.5)+1 / 100

Examples:
petricor - (33,304*34,565 / (5^1.5)+1 / 100 = 945,090
chinevo - (12,775*2,688 / (0.251^1.5)+1 / 100 = 305,033





that aside, i set out months ago to break the PPL record with petricor's build in mind. of course, many have beaten this since - but i'm still very happy with my achievement.
i posted about this build here, and will post a full build log in coming.. months?.. as time and energy allow

i copied petricors hardware (MOBO, RAM, CPU, etc.) as much as possible, but fit it all into a 3.3L S4T.
(it's a 4080s not a 4090 but pretty close).

due to power and heat constraints, the result is a build that barely squeaks out over his in PPL score!

Case	S4T (Skyreach 4 Tiny) 3D Printed 2mm Thick Cover
PSU	HDPlex 250W GaN
CPU	Ryzen 9 7950x3D
GPU	4080 Super
Cinebench R23 Multi-Core	29,995
TimeSpy Graphics Score	22,358
Round 4 PPL Score (29,995*22,358) / (3.3^1.5) / 100	1,118,692

Oh I think I saw your build on Reddit or somewhere! Very nice!

 

[hrh_ginsterbusch]

Did anyone find out where that about 10 months delayed "promised" Linux version of 3D Mark is?
My guess is they're just trying to do a white-washing kind of thing, and never gonna deliver.

Apparently its possible to run it on Linux, but most sources report a reduction in performance of approx 15 - 25%.
My other option would be a VM with PCIe passthrough, eg. as described in the Arch Linux Wiki.

Edit: Third option would be to just assume there is a generic disparity of approx. 20%, when running 3D Mark using Wine / Proton, and thus present both the guestimate and the reduced score.

cu, w0lf.

 

[REVOCCASES]

My new custom 1.6L build - Ryzen AI HX370 with RTX 4080m​

Log - Project M1GTHYF1 - worlds first 1.6L Ryzen AI HX370 mini PC with RTX 4080

I recently came across the SGWZONE / MOREFINE eGPUs - some interesting products as they are completely modular - you can upgrade the GPU (MXM card), the I//O module (Oculink, Thunderbolt 4, Thunderbolt 5) and of course the PSU ... pretty cool concept as this seems much more future proof compared...

smallformfactor.net

PPL calculation incl. GaN Brick: ((20510 * 18521) / (1.6 + 0.25)^1.5))/100 = 1.509.636

 

[nightshift]

I have so questions that might seem lame.
There were some builds that featured a gpu connected with the Deskmini's motherboard via the backside M.2. Can that mobo really work like that?

And most importantly how do you power this setup? The Deskmini comes with a 120w outer brick which is just enough for an APU.
How does we get an additional 150w to power for a gpu? Also if it has a single 8pin port - what do we plug over there?

 

[SFFMunkee]

I have so questions that might seem lame.
There were some builds that featured a gpu connected with the Deskmini's motherboard via the backside M.2. Can that mobo really work like that?

And most importantly how do you power this setup? The Deskmini comes with a 120w outer brick which is just enough for an APU.
How does we get an additional 150w to power for a gpu? Also if it has a single 8pin port - what do we plug over there?

Hey so the M.2 is just a PCIe x4 connection, with direct-to-CPU lanes (the X300/X600 are basically 'activator' chips for the onboard SOC, not a real chipset)

The PCIe x4 signalling is passed through to a PCIe slot, on a riser that has its own power input

-- This is achieved through a riser that directly adapts an M.2 slot to a PCIe slot (like those from ADT-Link, as well as numerous clones)

The X300M-STX is able to run on 12VDC, so that makes powering a GPU and the board with the same power supply relatively simple, however the X600M-STX requires modification to work on 12VDC
You can also run the motherboard on 19-20VDC and then have an adapter to reduce that down to 12V for the GPU, or even have two separate power supplies (one for motherboard, one for riser & GPU)

The options for the actual power supply are fairly broad, but you'll want to make a decision early on whether you want internal or external, and whether you want 19V or 12V, as that will influence your design significantly.
Internal power supplies include things like Meanwell LOP series and clones

External power supplies you can use high current 12VDC (although connectors are often the problem here, as even 120W to the board means 10A on a barrel jack!) or a 19V supply and a secondary power adapter to reduce to 12V for the riser and GPU.

 

[petricor]

My new custom 1.6L build - Ryzen AI HX370 with RTX 4080m​

Log - Project M1GTHYF1 - worlds first 1.6L Ryzen AI HX370 mini PC with RTX 4080

I recently came across the SGWZONE / MOREFINE eGPUs - some interesting products as they are completely modular - you can upgrade the GPU (MXM card), the I//O module (Oculink, Thunderbolt 4, Thunderbolt 5) and of course the PSU ... pretty cool concept as this seems much more future proof compared...

smallformfactor.net

View attachment 3723

View attachment 3726

View attachment 3724

View attachment 3725

PPL calculation incl. GaN Brick: ((20510 * 18521) / (1.6 + 0.25)^1.5))/100 = 1.509.636

Very cool build.
Are the “columns” stacked standoffs? I really like the sheet metal assembly logic!
Is the CPU blowing into the GPU compartment or did you close that side of the heatsink?

 

[REVOCCASES]

Very cool build.
Are the “columns” stacked standoffs? I really like the sheet metal assembly logic!
Is the CPU blowing into the GPU compartment or did you close that side of the heatsink?

Thanks

Indeed, that's anodized aluminum standoffs. I explained the design a little more detailed here:

Log - Project S1MPL1FY - Custom 0.6L Case with Ryzen AI 9 HX370

I really dig the design / appearance of the Cirrus7 cases, so for this custom case I took some inspiration from my last Nimbini project as base unit, I took the GMKtec EVO-X1 mini PC (aka AOOSTAR GT37) - the board is very similar to the previous GEM10, so I just needed to modify the I/O...

smallformfactor.net

I did put a small piece Lexan in there to prevent hot air blowing directly into the GPU fan. Works actually pretty good, both CPU and GPU are just in the high 60s during gaming.

 

[Curiosity]

Now that my newest build is complete, I can finally PPL it!

((9820* 12707) / (3.78)^1.5))/100= .....261,188 (249,226 with feet(3.9L))
And if I connect thru the X300 DP out instead of the 4070S DP output- 169,792 (162,015 with feet(3.9L)) that's a pretty big perf hit! x.x Guess I won't be doing that anymore.

Feels super low compared to Revo's result, lol. But I'm happy with my performance overall.
I wouldn't mind swapping to an x600 and a 7800x3d or something, however.

@nightshift this build is one of those rear M.2 style X300 builds.

 

[SFFMunkee]

Now that my newest build is complete, I can finally PPL it!

((9820* 12707) / (3.78)^1.5))/100= .....261,188 (249,226 with feet(3.9L))
And if I connect thru the X300 DP out instead of the 4070S DP output- 169,792 (162,015 with feet(3.9L)) that's a pretty big perf hit! x.x Guess I won't be doing that anymore.

Feels super low compared to Revo's result, lol. But I'm happy with my performance overall.
I wouldn't mind swapping to an x600 and a 7800x3d or something, however.

@nightshift this build is one of those rear M.2 style X300 builds.



View attachment 3891

No build log? For same!
More pics more pics more pics more pics

 

[Curiosity]

No build log? For same!
More pics more pics more pics more pics

I need to make one!
I'll get on it tomorrow, it kinda slipped my mind x.x

 

[nightshift]

Hey so the M.2 is just a PCIe x4 connection, with direct-to-CPU lanes (the X300/X600 are basically 'activator' chips for the onboard SOC, not a real chipset)

The PCIe x4 signalling is passed through to a PCIe slot, on a riser that has its own power input

-- This is achieved through a riser that directly adapts an M.2 slot to a PCIe slot (like those from ADT-Link, as well as numerous clones)

The X300M-STX is able to run on 12VDC, so that makes powering a GPU and the board with the same power supply relatively simple, however the X600M-STX requires modification to work on 12VDC
You can also run the motherboard on 19-20VDC and then have an adapter to reduce that down to 12V for the GPU, or even have two separate power supplies (one for motherboard, one for riser & GPU)

The options for the actual power supply are fairly broad, but you'll want to make a decision early on whether you want internal or external, and whether you want 19V or 12V, as that will influence your design significantly.
Internal power supplies include things like Meanwell LOP series and clones

External power supplies you can use high current 12VDC (although connectors are often the problem here, as even 120W to the board means 10A on a barrel jack!) or a 19V supply and a secondary power adapter to reduce to 12V for the riser and GPU.

Thank you for all the answers.
I found a good deal on the elusive b760 deskmini and happen to still have my 12400T around. I decided to get this build going and now I have a tiny APU build which I use during weekdays when I only sit down for light gaming and webbrowsing before work. I like the ports galore, the icy cold temps and actually found the UHD-730 gpu within to be suprisingly capable. I do love my Velka 3 with the 4060 within, but with the games I currently play (Balatro, Underrail, Crow Country, Dread Delusion), I haven't touched it for almost 2 month now.

But it got me thinking how awesome it would be to do a newbie friendly "Velka 1" build with this lovely STX mobo. Since the 12400T is quite low on consumption, I wonder if I can attach a gpu that's still so low in consumption that with maybe still be able to use the given 120w power brick. Or get some other model that offers 180-200w.
I found the pcie 3.0 Nvidia T1000 workstation gpu to be a great candidate. It maxes out at merely 50w, it has an 8GB version and is also about 150mm long and single slot. Seems perfect and the whole build with a 37mm cooler can even be slimmer than the original Deskmini case. Also due to the LP-nature of the card, a single SATA SSD could fit underneath to maximize the space. I have two questions though.

• You mentioned some ADT-Link adapters - could you give me an idea M.2 to pcie adapter should I use?
• Also, would it be possible to make it work with an internal meanwell psu? What would that involve in case of the b760 model?

Sorry to burden you with all this. Obviously this is a super long term project, mainly due to the case itself is not even designed yet, but if it would work, then I might probably learn some FreeCAD skills just for this.

 

[Curiosity]

@nightshift
I've used ADTLINK adapters, namely the R34UR and an R34S* model, iirc.
Definitely possible, I think someone recently did something just like what you're thinking about, if you browse the builds forum.
Though I think for the B760/X600 model STX boards you need to do a resistor mod if you want to power the mobo from a 12v source.

I'll try to find the build I'm talking about and will edit a link into this post if I find it.

Found what I was thinking of, conveniently it's the fella who did the writeup about the resistor mod.

Log - BAOCASE Mini | 2.77L 7800X3D & 4060Ti & internal PSU(with X600-STX 12v input MOD)

[Edited on July 15, 2024: Reupload pictures.If not display, please reply.] Hello everyone, I’d like to share my 2.77L SFF build of the 7800X3D CPU and 4060Ti GPU. As you can see, this build is based on an STX motherboard with a discrete graphics card SFF case. Since last year, I have designed...

smallformfactor.net

 

[petricor]

In an unexpected turn of events, AMD sent me a 9950X3D as a replacement for my RMA'd 7950X3D - so I dropped it into my 2023 S4 Mini build, and magically, it did not blow up the PSU. Overall, I may be looking at a similar power consumption - the 9950, unlike the 7950X3D, does have headroom for and responds well to undervolting, and my Octabe Bench scores are just marginally below my last ones indicating just a little more heat in the loop.
After a little of tweaking, I have been able to extract quite a bit of extra performance...

CPU	R9 9950X3D
GPU	4090 FE
Case	Skyreach 4 Mini
Volume	5.0l
Cinebench R23 Multi-Core, 30 minutes	41,825
TimeSpy Graphics Score	35,131
OctaneBench	1,317.02
Round 4 PPL Score​ (41,825*35,131)/(5^1.5)/100	1,314,230​
Round 4 Compute Score​ (41,825*1,317.02)/(5^1.5)/100	49,269​

 

[Boil]

Been a hot minute or three folks...!

Still have my ASUS Crossfire Impact VIII mDTX mobo in a Lian-Li TU150 chassis, with a Zotec RTX 2070; the TU150 is slightly over 20L, so I am a SFF heretic...! ;^p

I AM looking for a new chassis to move my build over to, but one that will still allow me to use my mDTX mobo * a longer fatter GPU (right now eying the Sapphire Nitro+ RX 9070 XT, which is 331.. long & ...

Not really interested in water-cooling anymore, I had a leaky AIO that almost fried my Impact VIII; although that newish NZXT H2 Flow chassis looks interesting; excepting that it will not fit my mDTX mobo, and I really don't want to buy into an entirety new system, so...

Interested in what kind of scores we might see once the RTX Spark mini desktops make their debut...

Gotta go back over the thread and see what benchmarks are being used now; I did see some talk about Linux benchmarks, so the DGX Spark might also prove interesting from a PPL aspect...?

 

[confusis]

Let's be honest, the 20L limit for SFF is really quite tight for a lot of modern hardware - it all gets a bit melty under sustained loads!

I've been living in the 20-26L region for a while - Lian Li Dan A3, Jonsbo Z20 for example. I guess for your Impact VIII you'll need a non-sandwich layout case.

The RTX spark systems will indeed be interesting from a PPL point of view - wonder how many current ARM systems can get a decent PPL score...

 

[Boil]

The RTX spark systems will indeed be interesting from a PPL point of view - wonder how many current ARM systems can get a decent PPL score...

With the RTX Spark running the Windows 11 for ARM OS, one might wonder if we could see the return of the Apple Boot Camp Assistant at some point...? ;^p

 

[hrh_ginsterbusch]

Been a hot minute or three folks...!

Still have my ASUS Crossfire Impact VIII mDTX mobo in a Lian-Li TU150 chassis, with a Zotec RTX 2070; the TU150 is slightly over 20L, so I am a SFF heretic...! ;^p

I AM looking for a new chassis to move my build over to, but one that will still allow me to use my mDTX mobo * a longer fatter GPU (right now eying the Sapphire Nitro+ RX 9070 XT, which is 331.. long & ...

Not really interested in water-cooling anymore, I had a leaky AIO that almost fried my Impact VIII; although that newish NZXT H2 Flow chassis looks interesting; excepting that it will not fit my mDTX mobo, and I really don't want to buy into an entirety new system, so...

If you want in on vertical cases, the selection is rather meh in general, but:

Meshi always works - Meshroom S most certainly, maybe even the original Meshlicious.
Other options that could work: Shiny Snake L400 and maybe the Hyte Revolt 3.

You can use several filters in the SFF PC Master List, so I just did that. My brief test was, assuming these parameters (using Geizhals for reference):

- GPU height / thickness: >= 65 mm
- GPU length: >= 330 mm

And looking at the cases - if they support mATX, its a no-brainer, else its looking at the overall "bottom-out" length, ie. how much space to the bottom, esp. if its a sandwich-style case.

In < 10 L .. no luck.

In 10 - 20L, actually quite a few, including the Mechanic Master C26 Plus, both SFF Time cases (N-ATX + P-ATX), ZZAW B3, NCase M1 Evo + M2, and the Shiny Snake G300 .. and more.

But take a look for yourself

cu, w0lf.

 

[Boil]

So I was looking at an article on the RTX Spark, and it referenced a desktop chassis that was 150mm x 150mm x 51mm, giving it a total volume of 1.15 liters, it will be interesting to see what kind of PPL score it can achieve...!

 

[hrh_ginsterbusch]

So I was looking at an article on the RTX Spark, and it referenced a desktop chassis that was 150mm x 150mm x 51mm, giving it a total volume of 1.15 liters, it will be interesting to see what kind of PPL score it can achieve...!

I'd guess thats with an external brick.

 

[Boil]

So I was looking at an article on the RTX Spark, and it referenced a desktop chassis that was 150mm x 150mm x 51mm, giving it a total volume of 1.15 liters, it will be interesting to see what kind of PPL score it can achieve...!

I'd guess thats with an external brick.

LOL, good point, I did not even think of that...!