Just for curiosity, my meshroom s with AIO240 from EK, 7900xtx and 128Gb DDR4 on an ATX motherboard is weight 8,8kg. It's more than i expect but the temperature of cpu and gpu are better. Have a good build !
Log mATX SFF, research / prep work + intermediate build (Mesh-mATX)
- Thread starter hrh_ginsterbusch
- Start date
After having seen the "Hell in a Dell" sleeper PC, I'm kinda back to the Meshroom S. Will be going with the Silent Loop 2 280, which I already used within the Meshlicious build, and probably get a front panel extension to either aquire more space for the GPU, or just the opposite direction, ie. mounting the radiator + fans on the outside of the panel. The front panel extension would then have to be as long as the combination of radiator + fans, so roughly 52 - 55 mm.
Initially I am going to use the RX 6800 as originally planned, but will be selling it to replace it with a 4070 (not a super though).
Effectively I gonna try and see if I can turn the Meshroom S into something like a Sleeper PC.
I've looked at other case and pre-existing solutions, ie. actual ThinkCentre models, but it feels a bit too wasteful and nasty, buying a perfectly working, albeit refurbished, system, to just use its outer shell. And the other potential cases are rare and require much more research and compromises, compared to using a case I already own and have build with (generally speaking).
Why ThinkCentre? Because I am a ThinkPad fan, Dell already has a lot of Sleeper builds, and the other aesthetics dont really "hit home" with me
Planned components are:
- original setup, ie. MSI Z690 board, 13700k, 64 GB RAM, 2 TB Firecuda 530, Gigabyte Radeon RX 6800 OC
- additionally adding SK Hynix P41 2 TB, and maybe an extension card using an additonal riser cable to add 2 more NVMe options (there is a PCIe 3.0 x16 available)
- LGA 1700 contact frame, probably the original by Thermal Grizzly
- PSU: Corsair SF 750
- replacing the front panel with either a custom one that features the upper part of a partially functional ThinkCentre front panel (eg. on/off switch, USB ports, maybe even audio ports), or reusing the original panel and using a 3d printed ThinkCentre front attachment, which gets mounted using neodym magnets
- AIO: be quiet Silent Loop 2 280 with the original fans
- custom side-panel attachments, to eg. hide the left panel, but keeping the right one as open as possible, etc. Looking into eg. black / dark grey metallic cardboard thats being cut to size
If the AIO fans dont meet my expections, I might replace them either with the Silent Wings 4 120 HS (I got three of those, one is already attached to the radiator, still from the Meshlicious setup), or if I stay with 140 mm, then maybe test out the Iceberg Thermal IceGALE Xtra, before moving over to the SW 4 Pro 140s.
If I go for the outbound radiator option, I might replicate and improve on my Meshlicious setup, ie. PSU located on the GPU side - IF the GPU length is LOWER than 240 mm. My original option using a 90° metal bracket to fix the PSU to the bottom of the case, below the GPU, was ... okayish. But I'd love to properly attach the PSU to the case, so probably gonna use several 90° brackets plus the SAMA01 / NR200P SFX bracket.
Although, in theory, it might even be possible to mount the PSU at the GPU side bracket, if the GPU is not too wide. So, in the case of a long (eg. 300 mm) but medium-wide (at max, 140 mm) GPU, one could go for this option instead. This requires using the mentioned PSU bracket or something similar (eg. 3d printed custom SFX bracket) to properly mount it in position.
cu, w0lf.
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This feels kinda unfunny: Was fooling around with the Tacens OrumX, which I ordered a few months ago. Just dropped the be quiet SL 2 280 inside. Yes, fits, although you need to wiggle a bit.
Then I thought: Wouldnt it be funny if the GPU would fit side-by-side, too? Just like as planned for the Meshi?
.. turns out: Not only does it fit, you could even get a regular sized (= regular width / height) GPU inside.
Max height approx 310ish mm or so. And if you wanted to keep using the PSU location on top, you'd be limited to about 240 mm length. So most RTX 4070 and also several 4070 Super models would fit.
Now get the Meshlicious / Meshroom S middle frame, cut it down at the bottom by approx 4 cm, add 90° angled brackets to it, and tap the case bottom. Et voila: Mounting option for the GPU achieved.
Add one of the mounting brackets for the Meshi or the Meshroom S, cut this one also a bit shorter, just so it fits snuggly within the case top and bottom, and then mount the radiator to it.
Additional tasks: proper ventilation - eg. cut the existing side panel and add some mesh, preferably of the same color as the rest of the case (I got the white version; so for this course, the black / dark grey version would've been better).
Et voila, 14L mATX (!) SFF PC, liquid cooled, with ~2kg weight of the case itself achieved.
cu, w0lf.
Then I thought: Wouldnt it be funny if the GPU would fit side-by-side, too? Just like as planned for the Meshi?
.. turns out: Not only does it fit, you could even get a regular sized (= regular width / height) GPU inside.
Max height approx 310ish mm or so. And if you wanted to keep using the PSU location on top, you'd be limited to about 240 mm length. So most RTX 4070 and also several 4070 Super models would fit.
Now get the Meshlicious / Meshroom S middle frame, cut it down at the bottom by approx 4 cm, add 90° angled brackets to it, and tap the case bottom. Et voila: Mounting option for the GPU achieved.
Add one of the mounting brackets for the Meshi or the Meshroom S, cut this one also a bit shorter, just so it fits snuggly within the case top and bottom, and then mount the radiator to it.
Additional tasks: proper ventilation - eg. cut the existing side panel and add some mesh, preferably of the same color as the rest of the case (I got the white version; so for this course, the black / dark grey version would've been better).
Et voila, 14L mATX (!) SFF PC, liquid cooled, with ~2kg weight of the case itself achieved.
cu, w0lf.
Update: So after the playful journey with the Tacens OrumX, I decided to stuff all of it into the Meshroom S.
*drumroll* *badumms* it fits! Its a VERY tight fit, but the "front" panel closes. Probably would be better to get an extender though. But even a 1 cm extender would be enough, so maybe I just gonna use standoffs (tap the panel) and add some mesh or light wood in-between.
cu, w0lf.
*drumroll* *badumms* it fits! Its a VERY tight fit, but the "front" panel closes. Probably would be better to get an extender though. But even a 1 cm extender would be enough, so maybe I just gonna use standoffs (tap the panel) and add some mesh or light wood in-between.
cu, w0lf.
TL;DR: My original calculations with a 100 mm wide GPU + a 140 mm wide radiator .. worked out. Probably wouldnt have in the original Meshlicious, but with the 4 - 5 mm extended panels of the Meshroom S - it just works.
Oh, also, this log has been going on since March 2022, at a time where I was still making my way out of darkest depression.
And hey, hyperfixation on SFF PCs helped a lot to achieve that
cu, w0lf.
Oh, also, this log has been going on since March 2022, at a time where I was still making my way out of darkest depression.
And hey, hyperfixation on SFF PCs helped a lot to achieve that
cu, w0lf.
When to build? Well .. I guess in the next few weeks. End of April or so? I plan to do a test / semi-mockup build over the next weekend, using the leftover AM4 mainboard I got still sitting around from my last system; ie the one that existed before building with the 13700k inside the interim case, ie. Asus AP201 (the current "MFF PC Goat").
Sooooo .. properly prepare the case, including removal of hindering parts that may at worst scratch the radiator if left in place - or at best, just waste valuable space; also, adding the brackets for mounting the GPU, etc.
Maybe I even fully set up the mainboard, but obviously wont install the AIO, but instead, go with the NH-L12S and open frame.
Basically all components listed in the starter post, but using the AM4 board as placeholder / for testing purposes.
My main concerns are: Position of the GPU, testing the riser cable (if it works as its supposed to), etc.
One of the reasons I wont do it all in one go, even if everything works as expected: I want to add the second 2 TB SSD, and at the same time, do a different overall storage setup. And of corpse, install a selection of current linux distros, probably Endeavour OS (for testing), current MX Linux (KDE AHS release) and maybe KDE Neon. Thats lots of work involved, esp. when its your main system / workstation, ie. I NEEEED the system to work as much out-of-the-box as possible. Any bigger break thanks to issues with the new setup, is time AND money lost. Thats esp. true when one is working as a freelancer. So no experiments, just prep work for the "real deal"
cu, w0lf.
Sooooo .. properly prepare the case, including removal of hindering parts that may at worst scratch the radiator if left in place - or at best, just waste valuable space; also, adding the brackets for mounting the GPU, etc.
Maybe I even fully set up the mainboard, but obviously wont install the AIO, but instead, go with the NH-L12S and open frame.
Basically all components listed in the starter post, but using the AM4 board as placeholder / for testing purposes.
My main concerns are: Position of the GPU, testing the riser cable (if it works as its supposed to), etc.
One of the reasons I wont do it all in one go, even if everything works as expected: I want to add the second 2 TB SSD, and at the same time, do a different overall storage setup. And of corpse, install a selection of current linux distros, probably Endeavour OS (for testing), current MX Linux (KDE AHS release) and maybe KDE Neon. Thats lots of work involved, esp. when its your main system / workstation, ie. I NEEEED the system to work as much out-of-the-box as possible. Any bigger break thanks to issues with the new setup, is time AND money lost. Thats esp. true when one is working as a freelancer. So no experiments, just prep work for the "real deal"
cu, w0lf.
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I did a test / mockup build with the Meshroom S today. Turns out, the GPU might only fit properly if I a) use a 180° power extension cord adapter and b) deshroud it.
Thus, I've ordered a bunch of 180° GPU power extension adapters.
Potential workarounds: Mount the AIO in front of the case, sell the GPU and get an RTX 4070.
The last two steps are actually the main plan, the first one is not. But if using the 180° adapter and deshrouding (with a quick test fit) doesnt work ..
.. well, the other option is either building with the LF II 240 + P12 Max, or getting another 240 mm AIO (might try the Thermalright Frozen Edge + P12 Max, just for the most quick shipping option).
As the current system is starting to show signs of issues (in need of cleaning, and the CPU temps have been kinda wonky lately), the sooner I rebuild, the better
cu, w0lf.
Thus, I've ordered a bunch of 180° GPU power extension adapters.
Potential workarounds: Mount the AIO in front of the case, sell the GPU and get an RTX 4070.
The last two steps are actually the main plan, the first one is not. But if using the 180° adapter and deshrouding (with a quick test fit) doesnt work ..
.. well, the other option is either building with the LF II 240 + P12 Max, or getting another 240 mm AIO (might try the Thermalright Frozen Edge + P12 Max, just for the most quick shipping option).
As the current system is starting to show signs of issues (in need of cleaning, and the CPU temps have been kinda wonky lately), the sooner I rebuild, the better
cu, w0lf.
Just as a reminder: The Tacens Orumx weights only 2.2 kg, while each side panel weights a hefty 550g. BUT: The All-Hit combo (280 rad + AMD GPU BRICK) fits perfectly inside.
If I'm too miffed off by the alternative of either deshroud + air ducting or putting the AIO on the front = outside, I may just go down THAT road = stuff everything into the Orumx, and then fabricate a proper side panel (like: cut up the existing one, add mesh, be happy).
I'm kinda turned off by its color (not-yet-creamy white), but that might be just the return of the Screaming Neon Magenta x Sunny Orange (either vinyl-wrapping or straight out splashing paint on).
If I'm too miffed off by the alternative of either deshroud + air ducting or putting the AIO on the front = outside, I may just go down THAT road = stuff everything into the Orumx, and then fabricate a proper side panel (like: cut up the existing one, add mesh, be happy).
I'm kinda turned off by its color (not-yet-creamy white), but that might be just the return of the Screaming Neon Magenta x Sunny Orange (either vinyl-wrapping or straight out splashing paint on).
Ok, happy deshroud time. A less chunky GPU is the eventual solution (ie. at max, 45 mm height), but for now, deshrouding the up to 60 mm height behemoth the Gigabyte RX 6800 OC .. it is.
Gonna post pics of the process on insta later on (and drop it in here, obv.).
Edit: Nope. Deshrouding this behemoth is a huge PITA. I've done a few in the last few years, but this thing is a piece of solid craftmanship. So I gonna down the easy route and just go for the outbound radiator in front - FOR NOW.
Next chapter: Nvidia RTX 4070, and returning to the original side-by-side layout as planned.
cu, w0lf.
Gonna post pics of the process on insta later on (and drop it in here, obv.).
Edit: Nope. Deshrouding this behemoth is a huge PITA. I've done a few in the last few years, but this thing is a piece of solid craftmanship. So I gonna down the easy route and just go for the outbound radiator in front - FOR NOW.
Next chapter: Nvidia RTX 4070, and returning to the original side-by-side layout as planned.
cu, w0lf.
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Final decision: Get a decent 240 AIO, probably the Thermalright Frozen Edge, build with the rest of the planned components ..
... and then upgrade in a month or two to the Asrock Z790 PG-ITX/TB4, using the be quiet SL II 280, inside the S400. A custom mod seems to be the only somewhat easy / decent option to get a < 14L case with 280 mm radiator support. End volume should be roughly between 12.9L and 12.6L. Needs a new side panel, which would be created using a white Meshlicious side panel (398 g vs. original w/ 320 g).
Thats also just gonna be an intermediate next level upgrade, because I'm going to replace The Brick (~1,3 kg) aka the RX 6800 with a 4070 (either MSI (~660 g) or Inno3D (~760 g), preferably in white).
Somewhere towards the end this year or begin of next year, I might also try myself on a 280 custom loop or so. 280 + 140 might also be do-able, with reducing the volume to the original 10.8L, when going for a full loop (ie. including the GPU). That'd be a side-mounted 280 radiator + either top- or bottom mounted 140 radiator. Bykski offers water blocks for several RTX 4070 variations.
cu, w0lf.
... and then upgrade in a month or two to the Asrock Z790 PG-ITX/TB4, using the be quiet SL II 280, inside the S400. A custom mod seems to be the only somewhat easy / decent option to get a < 14L case with 280 mm radiator support. End volume should be roughly between 12.9L and 12.6L. Needs a new side panel, which would be created using a white Meshlicious side panel (398 g vs. original w/ 320 g).
Thats also just gonna be an intermediate next level upgrade, because I'm going to replace The Brick (~1,3 kg) aka the RX 6800 with a 4070 (either MSI (~660 g) or Inno3D (~760 g), preferably in white).
Somewhere towards the end this year or begin of next year, I might also try myself on a 280 custom loop or so. 280 + 140 might also be do-able, with reducing the volume to the original 10.8L, when going for a full loop (ie. including the GPU). That'd be a side-mounted 280 radiator + either top- or bottom mounted 140 radiator. Bykski offers water blocks for several RTX 4070 variations.
cu, w0lf.
Other option would be to just get a 4060 LP. That'd immediately solve both problems:
a) 69 mm width = fits easily aside a 280 radiator inside the Meshroom S
b) 40 mm height = fits easily inside the S400, with a 280 radiator on top / bottom, and no need to cut up the middle frame
cu, w0lf.
Insanity slowly creeping in: A very different option ("wenn ich total pervers bin") would be to install the GPU on top; that'd involve doing a deshroud, eg. with a 4070, and then add a slim 140 at the back part, and two standard-sized 120 mm fans on top of the case (outside). Detachable, so when one transports the case, the top fan section would be carried seperately.
cu, w0lf.
cu, w0lf.
I feel like, more and more, leaning towards traditional, classic layout. Specifically for liquid cooling, this seems to be the better option.
Why? If I could easily convert one of the sandwich-layout cases I own to classic orientation layout, I would instantly be able to easily install a 280 mm radiator. The sad fact: There are next to none. At least none that are still in production and easily available. And lets not get started about mATX, thats even worse.
But if found, nothing hinders you from going vertical tower with a regular horizontally oriented case. I did the conversion with the SAMA IM / Intertech Pocket IM-I already, and the only disadvantage is: When you put the back I/O on top, you get this cable cluster / tree. When oriented downwards, you need some kind of taller feet or a seperate bottom extender.
So I might go for the Meshroom D, with all components present, and then switch it to vertical tower layout.
After more thinking, I'm currently not really sure what to do.
There are several paths and options to choose from ..
... Intermediate options for the Mesh-mATX build:
a) get 240 AIO, finish test build.
b) get smaller (in height) GPU, finish test build (<= 45 mm)
which both lead to finishing the Mesh-mATX.
But I'm already thinking ahead, because I really want to build with a 280 rad / AIO.
Options for this include:
a) get a 12 - 14L mATX case, something 30 x 40 x 10ish, use the same components, including the Silent Loop 2 280
b) downsize even further and build in the S400 with slight mod to allow for the AIO to sit on top
c) like b, but get the Sligher S610 instead, for radiator side-mount.
Option c) is, because I'm almost certain the C4 v2 is gonna take much longer, the FF1 is also more or less "whenever its ready", Meshroom D is basically the same size, NCase M1Evo too, and anything else available is bigger (and may still require modifications, eg. 280 mm rad in the Jonsbo V10).
Option a) would allow me to keep all components. b) + c) require replacing the mainboard. Eventually, the AMD GPU is going to be replaced with a 4070 (probably the MSI RTX 4070 non-super, as its size and weight is pretty decent).
cu, w0lf.
Why? If I could easily convert one of the sandwich-layout cases I own to classic orientation layout, I would instantly be able to easily install a 280 mm radiator. The sad fact: There are next to none. At least none that are still in production and easily available. And lets not get started about mATX, thats even worse.
But if found, nothing hinders you from going vertical tower with a regular horizontally oriented case. I did the conversion with the SAMA IM / Intertech Pocket IM-I already, and the only disadvantage is: When you put the back I/O on top, you get this cable cluster / tree. When oriented downwards, you need some kind of taller feet or a seperate bottom extender.
After more thinking, I'm currently not really sure what to do.
There are several paths and options to choose from ..
... Intermediate options for the Mesh-mATX build:
a) get 240 AIO, finish test build.
b) get smaller (in height) GPU, finish test build (<= 45 mm)
which both lead to finishing the Mesh-mATX.
But I'm already thinking ahead, because I really want to build with a 280 rad / AIO.
Options for this include:
a) get a 12 - 14L mATX case, something 30 x 40 x 10ish, use the same components, including the Silent Loop 2 280
b) downsize even further and build in the S400 with slight mod to allow for the AIO to sit on top
c) like b, but get the Sligher S610 instead, for radiator side-mount.
Option c) is, because I'm almost certain the C4 v2 is gonna take much longer, the FF1 is also more or less "whenever its ready", Meshroom D is basically the same size, NCase M1Evo too, and anything else available is bigger (and may still require modifications, eg. 280 mm rad in the Jonsbo V10).
Option a) would allow me to keep all components. b) + c) require replacing the mainboard. Eventually, the AMD GPU is going to be replaced with a 4070 (probably the MSI RTX 4070 non-super, as its size and weight is pretty decent).
cu, w0lf.
So I've chosen option a) get a 240 AIO. Thermalright Frozen Edge should arrive on Friday.
Then we do a test build on Saturday (which is when the next batch of NT-H2 is supposed to arrive).
But also option d) aka trying to fit a 280 AIO side-mounted in the A4-H2O.
I'd have loved to go for the Sliger S610, but the density.sk website feels deserted (its partially broken, like items in the cart suddenly disappearing when navigating to other pages etc).
cu, w0lf.
Then we do a test build on Saturday (which is when the next batch of NT-H2 is supposed to arrive).
But also option d) aka trying to fit a 280 AIO side-mounted in the A4-H2O.
I'd have loved to go for the Sliger S610, but the density.sk website feels deserted (its partially broken, like items in the cart suddenly disappearing when navigating to other pages etc).
cu, w0lf.
Ordered the A4 H2O from caseking yesterday night. DHL tracking already received, if I'm very lucky, its going out today and arrives tomorrow. So the next project is trying to fit a be quiet Silent Loop 2 280 on the GPU side.
What should be arriving in the next few hours, is the Thermalright Frozen Edge 240.
Edit: Just arrived. Packacking is about the size half of the whole case
cu, w0lf.
What should be arriving in the next few hours, is the Thermalright Frozen Edge 240.
Edit: Just arrived. Packacking is about the size half of the whole case
cu, w0lf.
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So, for another update: After deciding to go with the A4 H2O + 280 AIO, the use case for this build has become rather .. moot?
After a bit of pondering today, I decided to combine both my SAMA IM01 and the Mesh-mATX build into one, ie. building a media server inside the Meshroom S. Components stay mostly the same, but the CPU is being replaced with the i5 12400 from the SAMA build.
Also, there gonna be two SSDs and 2 / 3 HDDs (these are primarly for archivation purposes).
Seperate PCPartpicker list: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/user/fwolf/saved/z4PH4D
cu, w0lf.
After a bit of pondering today, I decided to combine both my SAMA IM01 and the Mesh-mATX build into one, ie. building a media server inside the Meshroom S. Components stay mostly the same, but the CPU is being replaced with the i5 12400 from the SAMA build.
Also, there gonna be two SSDs and 2 / 3 HDDs (these are primarly for archivation purposes).
Seperate PCPartpicker list: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/user/fwolf/saved/z4PH4D
cu, w0lf.
Yeah, decisions .. gonna use the case for a temporary test build with my newly arrived 7950X, and then, when everything works as expected, and the A4-H2O GPU mounting "system" plus the AIO mounting is finished / finalized, the system is gonna be moved in there.
Then we gonna return with the original setup, ie. i7-13700k + Arctic LF II 240, maybe with the Ion+ 650, but maybe also just the FSP 850 (as disgusting as its cables may be). If the LF II doesnt work out, its gonna be the Thermalright 240 AIO instead.
So we can finally say: Build + done!
Ah yeah, oc gonna make a bunchload of pics and dump em here.
cu, w0lf.
ps: After that, its time for the sleeper build
Then we gonna return with the original setup, ie. i7-13700k + Arctic LF II 240, maybe with the Ion+ 650, but maybe also just the FSP 850 (as disgusting as its cables may be). If the LF II doesnt work out, its gonna be the Thermalright 240 AIO instead.
So we can finally say: Build + done!
Ah yeah, oc gonna make a bunchload of pics and dump em here.
cu, w0lf.
ps: After that, its time for the sleeper build
Plans have changed, albeit only slightly. The new system resides in the S400 V2, as I was mightily unpleased with the "nearly breaking the tubes" situation in the A4-H2O.
Else, everything stays the same. First building in the Meshi, testing, making lots of photos, and then moving on to build the sleeper
cu, w0lf.
Else, everything stays the same. First building in the Meshi, testing, making lots of photos, and then moving on to build the sleeper
cu, w0lf.
