Cooling Cooling setup advice

[Dawelio]

Hello everyone,

So I'm waiting on the release of the upcoming Lian Li O11D Mini case, which unfortunately has been delayed around 6 months, but seems to be getting closer and closer, hopefully mid November.

As with any build, planning is a huge part of it. Hence this thread.

I'm a bit unsure on what size fans I should go for, dual 120's or dual 140's on the side of the chassi. The side, meaning the fans to the right (on the AIO) of the motherboard in the picture below.

I will otherwise, fully utilize all fan spots in the case; one 120 in the back, triple 120's in the bottom, triple 120's in the top (AIO) and then there's the dual fans on the side. Which I am having a hard time deciding on. I'm not even sure if it even makes a huge difference between 120 and 140? Especially considering the colossal amount of airflow that the case will have anyway. At this point, it's just the aestethics with it, which is something I'm rather picky about.

In the end, it will be up to me to decide whatever I go for, although I've wanted to ask you guys for a while now what everyone's opinions on these are, what you would choose yourselfs in my position?...

The fans I've thought about are all Corsair ML120's and ML140's (if choosing for 140's on the side). They will be a nightmare to cable management, but this is something I'm willing to do, especially since this is pretty much a one time thing that you do. So not a huge thing overall.
If all 120's, then I might consider the Lian Li Uni Fans or similar. Due to their ease of cable management. Although I don't want the cable management to be deciding factor, since this isn't something that you will see anyway (I'm picky on clean and slick cable management in my build). So it's mostly down to size(s) and aestethics.

What do you guys think and what are your thoughts on this?:

Best regards,
Dawelio

 

[thelaughingman]

First up, my rule of thumb is always populate a fan spot with the largest possible fan size you can so I would always put 140mm fans on the side. Secondly, I will take the UniFan any day of the week over the Corsair ML, cable management is critical to me and I hate the current 2 wires most RGB-fans have. I would expect similar cooling performance and the UniFan to win on noise. The ML fan is really old design and at high RPM it is extremely loud. If Lian-li could ever come up with UniFan slims then I'll ditch the Noctua in a heartbeat LOL

For more POV you can lookup JayzTwoCents' video on the UniFan, he loves that thing and so am I ?

 

[Dawelio]

First up, my rule of thumb is always populate a fan spot with the largest possible fan size you can so I would always put 140mm fans on the side. Secondly, I will take the UniFan any day of the week over the Corsair ML, cable management is critical to me and I hate the current 2 wires most RGB-fans have. I would expect similar cooling performance and the UniFan to win on noise. The ML fan is really old design and at high RPM it is extremely loud. If Lian-li could ever come up with UniFan slims then I'll ditch the Noctua in a heartbeat LOL

For more POV you can lookup JayzTwoCents' video on the UniFan, he loves that thing and so am I ?

Thank you for your reply and input, highly appreciated!

Your rule of thumb seems very logical and I agree. I also agree that while Corsair's implementation of their RGB solutions is utterly the worst, to say the least, they are amongst the few that has it all; sized fans, RGB, control software that seems to be advanced etc.

The problem with the Lian Li Uni fans, which Jay also pointed out in his video, which is also the problem/issue I'm having, is that they don't come in 140 size - only 120. Which the ML does and hence my a bit of a unsure position here.
Your opinion on the Corsair design is completely entitled and I understand where you're coming from, although I personally like the design of the ML fans, despite them being old.

Speaking of Jayz video, I also really liked the performance of the Uni fans that was shown in his video, they seem to have an incredible amount of pressure, while being extremely slow running and doing so very quietly as well.

 

[thelaughingman]

The problem with the Lian Li Uni fans, which Jay also pointed out in his video, which is also the problem/issue I'm having, is that they don't come in 140 size - only 120. Which the ML does and hence my a bit of a unsure position here.
Your opinion on the Corsair design is completely entitled and I understand where you're coming from, although I personally like the design of the ML fans, despite them being old.

I think the Unifan lineup will grow out over time, especially given the positive response and hopefully strong sales that back that up. So 140mm fans should be coming and hopefully Lian-li doesn't take the Noctua route - even as the A12x25 Sterrox becomes the de-facto 'best-fan' it still takes them ages to get the A14x25 Sterrox out LOL

Don't get me wrong, visually I love those ML fans. I'd much prefer the LED in the fan hub and the light disperse outwards instead of the industry-standard ring LED design. It's just that I'd like to set my fan curves to hit max RPM at 100% load, and the ML fan blade generate too much air noise (my A12x25s now practically dead silent even at max RPM)

 

[Skripka]

Generally. I wouldn't use the Corsair fans. Period. The LL fans I have no experience with.

Noctuas are the kings of quiet and pressure/airflow all at the same time, with the Arctic P12s very close.....and the Corsairs only in a contest for last place, they are embarrassingly bad for a company that rebrands/sells some very good stuff.


140mm fans generally won't have the static pressure or fan choices that 120s have.

 

[Dawelio]

I think the Unifan lineup will grow out over time, especially given the positive response and hopefully strong sales that back that up. So 140mm fans should be coming and hopefully Lian-li doesn't take the Noctua route - even as the A12x25 Sterrox becomes the de-facto 'best-fan' it still takes them ages to get the A14x25 Sterrox out LOL

Don't get me wrong, visually I love those ML fans. I'd much prefer the LED in the fan hub and the light disperse outwards instead of the industry-standard ring LED design. It's just that I'd like to set my fan curves to hit max RPM at 100% load, and the ML fan blade generate too much air noise (my A12x25s now practically dead silent even at max RPM)

Yeah, I agree. I think, and wish, so as well to be honest. Despite 120 size being the most common size, 140 is also a size that I think they will loose out on, if they don’t do it.

I understand your point of view on that, although in this case, I believe the airflow will be so massive overall, that I won’t have/need to blast the fans at 100%.

Hence bringing the overal noise/sound aspect of the PC overall to be rather quiet - even during full load

Keep in mind, I’ll have a total of 9 fans in the system, 4 exhaust (3 on the AIO) and 5 (!) intakes.

Generally. I wouldn't use the Corsair fans. Period. The LL fans I have no experience with.

Noctuas are the kings of quiet and pressure/airflow all at the same time, with the Arctic P12s very close.....and the Corsairs only in a contest for last place, they are embarrassingly bad for a company that rebrands/sells some very good stuff.

Well one issue that all those fans you just mentioned, outside of being excellent fans, are that they all lack RGB control (as far as I’m aware anyway).

140mm fans generally won't have the static pressure or fan choices that 120s have.

Interesting, could you elaborate on this? How and what do you mean exactly?

 

[Skripka]

Well one issue that all those fans you just mentioned, outside of being excellent fans, are that they all lack RGB control (as far as I’m aware anyway).



Interesting, could you elaborate on this? How and what do you mean exactly?

Static pressure is the reference metric for being able to move air past an obstruction like a radiator or filter. Look at say Noctua's site, they provide a crosstab of airflow and pressure for all their fans:

Noctua

Noctua's premium fans are internationally renowned for their superb quietness, exceptional performance and thoroughgoing quality.

noctua.at

The take away you see...outside of industrial fans, none of the 140mm or 200mm products has the static pressure ability of their 120x25mm lineup.I pick on Noctua alone here because they have the best consumer-side documentation, at a glance, for these metrics across their entire product line of any company making fans for consumers. Note that comparing these metrics across brands is impossible due to varying tools/practices/procedures.


If you want RGB...Have you considered addressable RGB LED tape? FWIW, Noctua brown/tan fans do light up LED red very well....

 

[Valantar]

The take away you see...outside of industrial fans, none of the 140mm or 200mm products has the static pressure ability of their 120x25mm lineup.I pick on Noctua alone here because they have the best consumer-side documentation, at a glance, for these metrics across their entire product line of any company making fans for consumers. Note that comparing these metrics across brands is impossible due to varying tools/practices/procedures.

That's always the way it is with fans - the bigger the diameter of the fan, the lower its potential for static pressure. I would be very surprised if Noctua managed to match the pressure of the NF-A12x25 with the NF-A14x25. 40mm server fans have tons more static pressure than 120mm case fans, etc. It's simple logic, really: the bigger the area with fan blades, the more room there is for air to not be forced inwards by said blades but rather be pushed back out between the blades if there's sufficient restriction. Tighter blade designs alleviate that somewhat (which is why you can typically tell a pressure optimized vs. an airflow optimized design just by looking at it), but the theoretical peak is still lower the bigger the fan (just as the theoretical peak airflow of a bigger fan is higher). Of course in unrestricted scenarios these fans also deliver rather poor airflow for the simple reason that the pressure-optimized fins are designed to cut through the air and shove it forward to a much higher degree than airflow optimized fans, thus breaking up the flow of air to a much higher degree. IMO the success of the 120mm fan size in the PC space is down to it being pretty much a sweet spot for size: small enough to deliver acceptable pressure, big enough to deliver acceptable airflow airflow, small enough that you don't get excess blade tip noise due to the sheer speed of the larger blades, small enough to fit nearly anywhere, large enough to not need high speeds and be inherently noisy, etc.

If I were going for a scratch build right now, I would go with NF-A12x25s if I had the budget, or Arctic P12/P14s if not (there's also the Bionix P120/P140 if you want higher fan speeds). But then again I don't care about RGB. For fans that aren't on a radiator or fighting very restrictive filters, I would frankly go for whatever suits your tastes and budgets, as the difference is likely to be quite small.

 

[thelaughingman]

If I were going for a scratch build right now, I would go with NF-A12x25s if I had the budget, or Arctic P12/P14s if not (there's also the Bionix P120/P140 if you want higher fan speeds). But then again I don't care about RGB. For fans that aren't on a radiator or fighting very restrictive filters, I would frankly go for whatever suits your tastes and budgets, as the difference is likely to be quite small.

Coincidentally I'm getting a few Bionix P140, had great experience with the P12 so naturally I'm curious about Arctic's Bionix series. My plan is to test the P140s on my deshroud 5700XT vs the A12x25s that I'm using right now. As both fans are larger than the card's heatsink, I'll be looking at the CPU temp too since they are double-duty as additional intake for the radiator up top.

 

[Valantar]

Coincidentally I'm getting a few Bionix P140, had great experience with the P12 so naturally I'm curious about Arctic's Bionix series. My plan is to test the P140s on my deshroud 5700XT vs the A12x25s that I'm using right now. As both fans are larger than the card's heatsink, I'll be looking at the CPU temp too since they are double-duty as additional intake for the radiator up top.

Oh, it would be great if you could share some impressions here afterwards, as I'm considering replacing the Silent Wings 3s on my front rad with Bionix P120s (was originally considering p12s, but my main reason for replacing the fans is more total cooling capacity, and the p12s should be roughly the same as the SW3s).

 

[Dawelio]

So I've also posted this in an another forum and got this reply, which I found rather interesting. This isn't something that I've thought of myself before now:

In this instance I'd personally match all the fans for size so, everything will match, all fan pressures will match too, which can help reduce chop noise which can sometimes happen due to different fan sizes can often spin at different RPM unless carefully matched and IMO it's more balanced in aesthetics, but hey that's just me and how I'd do it.
And with the amount you're going to have you should be able to spin them all at a lower RPM and cut down some of the noise.

Now I'm not entirely sure how much difference this will actually make in the real world, even though it sounds logical. But how much of that will actually make a difference and even more so, will/would you even notice that/this difference?

Since I've always gone with the idea that going with the largest size fans that you can, since you can run those slower, but still have the same amount of air from them.

 

[thelaughingman]

Oh, it would be great if you could share some impressions here afterwards, as I'm considering replacing the Silent Wings 3s on my front rad with Bionix P120s (was originally considering p12s, but my main reason for replacing the fans is more total cooling capacity, and the p12s should be roughly the same as the SW3s).

Will do, need to popularise Arctic fans to my local community as well haha. I feel the same way about the P12s as you do, at 1800RPM it is perfectly silent but lacking the punch of 2000RPM. I guess that's where the Bionix series comes in nicely.

EDIT: just looking at Arctic's product page, the Bionix P120 and P140 are very similar in spec performance wise. the only big difference is max RPM. hopefully my test can give a good indication of the P120 performance too!

Keep in mind, I’ll have a total of 9 fans in the system, 4 exhaust (3 on the AIO) and 5 (!) intakes.

So just a single 360AIO for the GPU? This case seems to cry out for a hybrid GPU also (240 rad - haven't seen any hybrid card with 360 rad)

 

[Dawelio]

So just a single 360AIO for the GPU? This case seems to cry out for a hybrid GPU also (240 rad - haven't seen any hybrid card with 360 rad)

Yes, I'm planning on the NZXT Kraken Z73 cooler on an potential Ryzen 9 5900X or similar. Not much of a fan of hybrid GPUs, just want plenty of airflow in this case, which I've fallen for.

 

[thelaughingman]

@Valantar interesting results here. the hub on the Arctic fan is much smaller than the Noctua so the usual 'larger dead zone' argument does not apply ?

 

[thelaughingman]

@Dawelio @Valantar Uni Fan is now available in 140mm size. Knew I had to tag you guys! Already on sales at Newegg!

 

[Dawelio]

@Dawelio @Valantar Uni Fan is now available in 140mm size. Knew I had to tag you guys! Already on sales at Newegg!

Cheers for the tip, although already purchased and got delivered 2 of the 140's and 9 in the 120 size

 

[thelaughingman]

Cheers for the tip, although already purchased and got delivered 2 of the 140's and 9 in the 120 size

all Uni Fans? pls pls pls show your build with all of them!

 

[Dawelio]

all Uni Fans? pls pls pls show your build with all of them!

Hehe yup, 9 x 120's and 2 x 140's, so a total of 11 (!) fans purchased and delivered. All will go inside the Lian Li O11D Mini once it arrives beginning of January as it looks now. Will have the NZXT Kraken Z73 360 AIO in there as well, so will look pretty sweet if you ask me and the airflow will just be insane.

 

[thelaughingman]

Hehe yup, 9 x 120's and 2 x 140's, so a total of 11 (1) fans purchased and delivered. All will go inside the Lian Li O11D Mini once it arrives beginning of January as it looks now. Will have the NZXT Kraken Z73 360 AIO in there as well, so will look pretty sweet if you ask me and the airflow will just be insane.

sweet Jesus that's a lot of fans! and still you only need 1 controller which is why I'm so interested in this lineup. Awesome eye candy you're gonna have there and yes airflow gonna be insane or just go really low RPM for quietness!

I'm currently migrating my build over to the NR200 with triple radiators (stop gap whilst waiting for the C4 to launch in Q4 2021). With just 6 Noctuas I already feel the cable management pain! Would be more than happy to trade the 4 A12x25s with SL120 at this point but nobody is selling it locally

 

[Dawelio]

sweet Jesus that's a lot of fans! and still you only need 1 controller which is why I'm so interested in this lineup. Awesome eye candy you're gonna have there and yes airflow gonna be insane or just go really low RPM for quietness!

I'm currently migrating my build over to the NR200 with triple radiators (stop gap whilst waiting for the C4 to launch in Q4 2021). With just 6 Noctuas I already feel the cable management pain! Would be more than happy to trade the 4 A12x25s with SL120 at this point but nobody is selling it locally

Hehe, yes it is. Not all will go inside of it though, I will use 9 fans inside of the case. The reason for having 11 is unsure wether to go dual 120's or dual 140's on the side in the case, as intakes. So purchased dual 140's to have the option of choosing

Ah I see! Yeah, I feel your pain and worrying regarding cable management. Done the same in the A4 SFX case, which is one of the smallest!

A small teaser