Discussion Cooling concerns AM5?

daddelbud

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Original poster
Jan 9, 2019
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Hi all,

Since the AM5 announcements, I've been concerned about the increased TDP in relation to SFF.
I've been on the AM4 platform with Ryzen 2600, 3600 and now 5600x and eager explore the new platform - but I'm torn and cant really plan my build.
Do you expect that 7600x and 7700x can be tamed with coolers like l9a and BR? or do you expect liquid cooling to be the only option going forward?
 

Skripka

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May 18, 2020
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The problem with thinking about this at this stage...is that AMD TDP numbers have been meaningless for years. rumors are claiming that the entire Zen4 stack draws more power and would therefore generate more heat. But because AMD's TDP specifications are wholly artificially contrived numbers--saying anything intelligible about cooler-needs based on leaked AMD 'TDP' (yes, I just did finger quotes) values is a fairly pointless exercise. Probably not for much longer, as reviews are due later next month towards the end allegedly.
 
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Bakaban

SFF Lingo Aficionado
Nov 13, 2020
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They also mentionned you could go two ways: increased performance for about 50% more powerdraw. Or equal performance as comparable previous gen for half the powerdraw. So suppose you tune it to about 5600x performance (which to be fair is more then plenty for gaming on all but the highest possible settings) then you'd end up with (guesstimating here) about a 35 ish watt cpu. Your l9a will need to work far less hard to keep it cool. What you don't gain in computing horsepower, you win in reduced temps, reduced fan noise from the cooler and less powerdraw at the plug. A year ago i'd shrug about that, but now with my electricity bills quadrupled in price that sounds appealing.
 

HWI

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Sep 6, 2022
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They also mentionned you could go two ways: increased performance for about 50% more powerdraw. Or equal performance as comparable previous gen for half the powerdraw. So suppose you tune it to about 5600x performance (which to be fair is more then plenty for gaming on all but the highest possible settings) then you'd end up with (guesstimating here) about a 35 ish watt cpu. Your l9a will need to work far less hard to keep it cool. What you don't gain in computing horsepower, you win in reduced temps, reduced fan noise from the cooler and less powerdraw at the plug. A year ago i'd shrug about that, but now with my electricity bills quadrupled in price that sounds appealing.
Or you could buy a 12400/13400 for more than $100 less and run it right out of the box under an NH-L9 without issue. That's my problem with AMD's current marketing. Yes, I can underclock that $300 7600X, but why would I when I could get the equivalent (to the down clocked 7600X) Intel product for way less money. Unless the performance gains end up equaling the cost gains I just don't personally see the point.
 
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Skripka

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May 18, 2020
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Given the 105W 'TDP' rating now being official from AMD...I was thinking of getting a 7600X. Now I'm out. I'll check back when the 8600X comes out. I like my NCase, but I'd like to go back to a sandwich case--and 105W CPUs are not the optimal choice at that..
 

sneedster

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Apr 22, 2022
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Given the 105W 'TDP' rating now being official from AMD...I was thinking of getting a 7600X. Now I'm out. I'll check back when the 8600X comes out. I like my NCase, but I'd like to go back to a sandwich case--and 105W CPUs are not the optimal choice at that..
i mean you can always limit the PPT if it gets too spicy
 

dondan

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Feb 23, 2015
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The new Ryzen 7000 is designed to run nearly with all cooling options (even with 360 AIO) with 90-95°C under heavy multicore load. For gaming you should expect temps in the 70-80°C region. So at the end it doesnt matter you can run a Ryzen 7000 even with a L9a while sitting also on 95°C but with a lower clock.
 
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Skripka

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May 18, 2020
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The new Ryzen 7000 is designed to run nearly with all cooling options (even with 360 AIO) with 90-95°C under heavy multicore load. For gaming you should expect temps in the 70-80°C region. So at the end it doesnt matter you can run a Ryzen 7000 even with a L9a while sitting also on 95°C but with a lower clock.
The problem...how do you make a fan curve that optimizes temps and noise, when the part purposefully will redline to 95C no matter what you do? I'm guessing you don't or can't

TBH I have no idea. The problem with these bench reviews...they ignore everything but performance, using the maximum cooling and noise.
 

Thehack

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Mar 6, 2016
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The problem...how do you make a fan curve that optimizes temps and noise, when the part purposefully will redline to 95C no matter what you do? I'm guessing you don't or can't

TBH I have no idea. The problem with these bench reviews...they ignore everything but performance, using the maximum cooling and noise.

we need to walk away from optimizing “temps.” The cpu doesn’t care if it is operating at 85 or 95 c. Worrying about temps is a holdover from the old days where the cpu will aggressively throttle when it reaches max temp. Nowadays the boost is very granular. Being concerned about temps is leaving performance on the table.

Set your power budget and call it a day.
 

Thehack

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Or you could buy a 12400/13400 for more than $100 less and run it right out of the box under an NH-L9 without issue. That's my problem with AMD's current marketing. Yes, I can underclock that $300 7600X, but why would I when I could get the equivalent (to the down clocked 7600X) Intel product for way less money. Unless the performance gains end up equaling the cost gains I just don't personally see the point.
It would argue it is not equivalent, if multi core performance is anything to go by, even in ECO mode. The 7600x will demolish a 12400, anything otherwise is intellectual dishonesty. 13400 we have to wait to see.

For probably 95% of users, I would agree a 5600X or intel 12400 is a good choice. Why pay for performance you won’t end up using. Then again, if everyone followed this advice, we wouldn’t be here on this forum.

There is a big early adopter tax for a new platform, but some buyers will see value in an upgrade path down the line.
 
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Vilmir

Trash Compacter
Jul 23, 2019
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Long story short: new CPUs can adapt to your cooling solution.
  • If you want to squeeze out the best perf for work (ML, rendering, compilation etc), you need a big cooler. and if no SFF case can fit the cooler you need, you need to go back to towers. A 7950x will probably not be at 100% of what it can do without a good AIO 280/360 or a large cooler like the D15.
  • If you only game, you will be fine with your SFF cooler. Will a L9 be enough to not limit your FPS with a 7600x/13600k? We don't know, someone needs to benchmarck those babies, but I'd bet it shall be.
 
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rfarmer

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Jul 7, 2017
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This is very interesting. der8auer found that in order for AMD to retain AM4 cooler compatibility with AM5 the 7000 series have very thick IHS to match the CPU height of previous generations, with just a delid and no other changes he was able to reduce temps by 20C. He also shows that the CPU retention bracket is mounted to the AM5 backplate so if you have a cooler that uses it's own backplate it won't work with AM5.
 
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Legion

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Nov 22, 2017
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This is very interesting. de8auer found that in order for AMD to retain AM4 cooler compatibility with AM5 the 7000 series have very thick IHS to match the CPU height of previous generations, with just a delid and no other changes he was able to reduce temps by 20C. He also shows that the CPU retention bracket is mounted to the AM5 backplate so if you have a cooler that uses it's own backplate it won't work with AM5.

Pretty much any cooler that needs to use it's own backplate will not work on AM5 currently.

A few shown in this vid that do and don't (they've all started to recycle Roman's findings, same with the curve optimisations Ali did a vid about)
Getting desperate for content now a lot of channels lol
 
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Phuncz

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May 9, 2015
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This is very interesting. de8auer found that in order for AMD to retain AM4 cooler compatibility with AM5 the 7000 series have very thick IHS to match the CPU height of previous generations, with just a delid and no other changes he was able to reduce temps by 20C. He also shows that the CPU retention bracket is mounted to the AM5 backplate so if you have a cooler that uses it's own backplate it won't work with AM5.
I'm amazed they went through these lengths to do this, as there's now no way back. Even mid-cycle AM5 they can't just change it, now they're stuck with thick IHSes for atleast four years.

Or they know something we don't and that vertical stacking is going to be a thing that requires more height.

Maybe the cutouts and tall IHS are there for photonics ?





 
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Vilmir

Trash Compacter
Jul 23, 2019
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Techpowerup tested the 7950x with a 360 AIO, the NH-U14s and the AMD Wraith Spire:

Spoiler alert: the differences are smaller that you anticipated.
 
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HWI

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Sep 6, 2022
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It would argue it is not equivalent, if multi core performance is anything to go by, even in ECO mode. The 7600x will demolish a 12400, anything otherwise is intellectual dishonesty. 13400 we have to wait to see.

For probably 95% of users, I would agree a 5600X or intel 12400 is a good choice. Why pay for performance you won’t end up using. Then again, if everyone followed this advice, we wouldn’t be here on this forum.

There is a big early adopter tax for a new platform, but some buyers will see value in an upgrade path down the line.
What wattage does it run at when in ECO mode? I'd love to see someone power limit it to the neighborhood of the 12400 (65W/117W) and benchmark it. I'd really like to see what kind of performance could be had within that power limitation to see if it's worth the extra $100-$125.
 

Thehack

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65W is the power target for eco mode for 7600x. Synthetics/multi core should yield 20% improvements vs the i5, in eco mode. If you power tune it, may eek out a bit more for the same power.

It probably will be $150-200 with new RAM and when the B series come out for the 7600x. For the low end, until they start cranking out more boards it’s not worth AM5.

intel has lost the top tier performance levels, but I expect them to be very price competitive. Intel has been responsive to setting prices against AMD.

I find the 13400 and lower CPU the most interesting. The budget cpu offer such good value for consumers now.
 

HWI

Average Stuffer
Sep 6, 2022
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65W is the power target for eco mode for 7600x. Synthetics/multi core should yield 20% improvements vs the i5, in eco mode. If you power tune it, may eek out a bit more for the same power.

It probably will be $150-200 with new RAM and when the B series come out for the 7600x. For the low end, until they start cranking out more boards it’s not worth AM5.

intel has lost the top tier performance levels, but I expect them to be very price competitive. Intel has been responsive to setting prices against AMD.

I find the 13400 and lower CPU the most interesting. The budget cpu offer such good value for consumers now.
Thank you for the info. Would really like to see benchmarks and load temps of the 7600X in eco mode, hopefully someone will release a video of that.

I use a 4.9L case with a 37mm cooler height limit, so I am also most interested in the 65W class of CPUs. Right now I will likely jump into the 13400, but I'm not in a rush, so I am waiting to see what follow on CPUs AMD drops.