Log *complete* S4MAX'23 / World's smallest 4090 build: Brickless 5l S4Mini, 4090FE, 7950X3D, 800W, water cooled

[morj]

@petricor during the research of modern EK blocks (see unanswered message to you above) I found another brand new original Annihilator!!!

Upon inspection I found out that it's not 20mm thick, but instead a whopping 22.3mm thick. My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined...

 

[Lakimakromedia]

This is what I did

It adds a significant amount of extra length onto the end of the power supply so might not work in every circumstance.

Anyway u need to solder wires to PS, u cannot drill those plate - i did this, and i regret it... (psu not working like it supose to anymore)

 

[cyrix]

Anyway u need to solder wires to PS, u cannot drill those plate - i did this, and i regret it... (psu not working like it supose to anymore)

If you're talking about drilling through the pcb on the power supply on the output side, of course it isn't going to work; the top is ground and the bottom is +12v. Drilling through and putting a wire through the hole would cause a direct short circuit to ground for the main output. There also might be some communication traces in the pcb in the area that might get broken since it is a 4+ layer board. There are some power supplies that you can do that since the terminals on both sides of the board are the same polarity but not these.

 

[Damascus]

I finally managed to source an annihilator, so rereading this thread and (most) of the 2080 Ti/3090 adventures was a must! There will be a dedicated thread at a later date, but I’d like to throw this up here so that any new people can see that it’s still possible to do all sorts of watercooled minis. As for me, I'm currently in the early planning stages of an S4m-C variant of the S4Max, which means a few things.

1. I'll likely use the HDplex 250 GaN
2. I have less room in the gpu bay for radiators
3. Theoretically, the width clearance above the motherboard doesn't change, but I do lose a few mm of height

I'm considering an attempt using parts I have on hand - a reference 2080 (HKIV block), lots of 6/10mm g1/4 fittings an X570i strix and 3700x. The second secret sauce beyond the annihilator will be my VLP memory, acquired for my BR builds. I am hoping that I’ll be able to lay the gpu in the same layout as the 4090, with no new parts for the gpu block - only reductive mods where I trim a bit here or there.

Keeping with my penny pinching, the first mock-up will use the TX120 and a12x15 I already have. My goal is to utilize the saved space vs a 140mm combo to mount a DDC, although I have several DC-LT as reserves. If this combo proves to have some clearance, I will swap the a12x15 for a gentle typhoon+ strategic cutouts.

I’m currently debating a few things, such as upgrading to a 5600x3d if finances permit and possibly upgrading the gpu to something in the 30/4070 range. If/when I’ve got a shorter gpu, the radiator would likely be swapped for a 30mm thick offering like the GTS or XR5

Any suggestions would be appreciated, and I look forward to starting the process!

 

[immolationepoch]

I finally managed to source an annihilator, so rereading this thread and (most) of the 2080 Ti/3090 adventures was a must! There will be a dedicated thread at a later date, but I’d like to throw this up here so that any new people can see that it’s still possible to do all sorts of watercooled minis. As for me, I'm currently in the early planning stages of an S4m-C variant of the S4Max, which means a few things.

1. I'll likely use the HDplex 250 GaN
2. I have less room in the gpu bay for radiators
3. Theoretically, the width clearance above the motherboard doesn't change, but I do lose a few mm of height

I'm considering an attempt using parts I have on hand - a reference 2080 (HKIV block), lots of 6/10mm g1/4 fittings an X570i strix and 3700x. The second secret sauce beyond the annihilator will be my VLP memory, acquired for my BR builds. I am hoping that I’ll be able to lay the gpu in the same layout as the 4090, with no new parts for the gpu block - only reductive mods where I trim a bit here or there.

Keeping with my penny pinching, the first mock-up will use the TX120 and a12x15 I already have. My goal is to utilize the saved space vs a 140mm combo to mount a DDC, although I have several DC-LT as reserves. If this combo proves to have some clearance, I will swap the a12x15 for a gentle typhoon+ strategic cutouts.

I’m currently debating a few things, such as upgrading to a 5600x3d if finances permit and possibly upgrading the gpu to something in the 30/4070 range. If/when I’ve got a shorter gpu, the radiator would likely be swapped for a 30mm thick offering like the GTS or XR5

Any suggestions would be appreciated, and I look forward to starting the process!

May I ask where you sourced the annihilator from? I've been looking for one but in vain.

 

[Damascus]

May I ask where you sourced the annihilator from? I've been looking for one but in vain.

I got lucky and bought one used from someone who no longer needed his. Now that I have one on hand, I'm toying with the idea of making a custom top out of copper in the same vein as petricor and stanleyguan did for the 4090 block. I'd absolutely love to work with the modultra lobo guys, as they have a nearly perfect base already. That might lead to an even lower profile block which would actually be somewhat accessible.

We shall have to see

 

[RAAM]

Superb build!!! I am very impressed and have seen a lot of things in my almost 72 years so not impressed by much, great job!!!!

I am new to SFF, first build, I though it was pretty small in a Fractal Ridge case that now has 12 fans, was going to add AIO but just not needed and it is fully filtered as well. I was looking into smaller cases but after seeing what you have done I might just spend my time and money elsewhere like finishing the last 1,000 hours on our full time RV complete remodel instead. Then build a few sets of tower speaker designs to see what works best for the audio system to go with the stereo 15" subs.

I am going to search for more cool builds here and elsewhere, fun stuff indeed

Rick

 

[petricor]

Again very impressive project. Are you also daily driving this machine? Indeed surprising that there is no 12V only GaN power supply that has a better form factor. Would it still help you to have a smaller power supply?

Better late an answer than never: Yes, I use it daily - at least where my Mac does not cut it, and that's 3D and games! And yes, agree: GaN Power supplies would appear to be the next low hanging fruit in off-the-shelf PC tech... still nothing out there as it would appear, apart from g-unique's ultra rare custom builds... perhaps too small an audience!

 

[petricor]

Hi

2 questions:

1. Where did you get such a detailed 3D model of the new EK AM5 block? Did you make it yourself? If yes, can you please share it?
2. Have you considered this one (also from EK) instead? It is 8mm narrower and 1.8mm lower. The mounting mechanism is pretty much the same, so should be easily adaptable.

Here is the comparison of the EK CPU block drawings for AM5 (left) and LGA 4677 (right):

EDIT: also here is a trick from der8bauer/Thermal Grizzly that can save about 1mm of the whole package height: YouTube

1) yes, modelled it myself - have uploaded it here!
2) No - have not been aware of it! Will need a custom mounting plate though to fit an AM5 hole pattern- but this should be a quite straightforward cut from sheet metal...

 

[morj]

BTW, I ended up finding an OG Annihilator, but I also had thoughts about making a custom POM top for this water block (to relocate inlet/outlet ports to the side)

 

[cyrix]

Better late an answer than never: Yes, I use it daily - at least where my Mac does not cut it, and that's 3D and games! And yes, agree: GaN Power supplies would appear to be the next low hanging fruit in off-the-shelf PC tech... still nothing out there as it would appear, apart from g-unique's ultra rare custom builds... perhaps too small an audience!

While I don't know if there is a fully GaN psu, Supermicro has put out a successor to the 804p; the pws-862a-1r that has at least one GaN fet in it and is, at least by rating, a couple percent more efficient. It also has a minor power output bump: 750-800 -> 800-860. As well it is pin compatible with the 804 and is a couple mm shorter in length while being the same in the other two dimensions.

 

[petricor]

While I don't know if there is a fully GaN psu, Supermicro has put out a successor to the 804p; the pws-862a-1r that has at least one GaN fet in it and is, at least by rating, a couple percent more efficient. It also has a minor power output bump: 750-800 -> 800-860. As well it is pin compatible with the 804 and is a couple mm shorter in length while being the same in the other two dimensions.

Very nice! Also drops the “ridge” heat sink, possibly indicating less dependency on air flow… did you test it for air flow / cooling requirements?

 

[cyrix]

Very nice! Also drops the “ridge” heat sink, possibly indicating less dependency on air flow… did you test it for air flow / cooling requirements?

Have not had the chance to test it yet beyond really basic plugging in and really low level load/noise tests. I would imagine it has reduced cooling requirements since it didn't even come with thermal pads bonding components on the underside to the case either. There's also some topology that I'm not familiar with; it appears to have synchronous rectification but also has what looks to be a traditional diode rectifier. If it is indeed synchronous, that is a fair bit of heat eliminated.

 

[petricor]

Have not had the chance to test it yet beyond really basic plugging in and really low level load/noise tests. I would imagine it has reduced cooling requirements since it didn't even come with thermal pads bonding components on the underside to the case either. There's also some topology that I'm not familiar with; it appears to have synchronous rectification but also has what looks to be a traditional diode rectifier. If it is indeed synchronous, that is a fair bit of heat eliminated.

So that's definitely on the shopping list now! Any chance I can bother you for one of your amazing adapter boards?

 

[cyrix]

I could send one along however there is a limitation you must be aware of: total system power draw must be kept under 600w on the psu output side. Despite using a 6 layer pcb and 2oz copper, with the space available the traces are still smaller than I would like and as such could possibly get hotter than I would like. I would even say keep it under 550 to be safer.

 

[petricor]

I could send one along however there is a limitation you must be aware of: total system power draw must be kept under 600w on the psu output side. Despite using a 6 layer pcb and 2oz copper, with the space available the traces are still smaller than I would like and as such could possibly get hotter than I would like. I would even say keep it under 550 to be safer.

Well-noted - I'll keep a fire extinguisher handy Have just PM'd you... Cheers!

 

[SFFMunkee]

Well-noted - I'll keep a fire extinguisher handy Have just PM'd you... Cheers!

Now THAT's extreme modding hahaha

 

[metapath]

@petricor can you please re-check and provide more info on the psu (like dimensions, store link)? PWS-801-1R gives me mixed results. How did you find this PSU? Maybe I could find an equivalent that is easier to get in EU.

I will be trying to make similar layout just in a different case, probably printed as I already made one for more casual build.

 

[metapath]

@petricor I have found HSTNS-PD41 to be affordable in my area, which seems to be of similar dimensions - is that right?

 

[morj]

@petricor I have found HSTNS-PD41 to be affordable in my area, which seems to be of similar dimensions - is that right?

Sorry to hijack, but I believe HSTNS-PD41 is larger: 68mm x 39mm x 182mm. So 1.5x wider, hence 1.5x the volume (compared to trimmed PWS-801-1R which is around 55mm x 40mm x 180mm).

Besides, you will need to do your own research how to wire it while the Supermicro PSU is already researched.