I think it was the I/O shield that fit strangely. Since I already had my mind made up about swapping blocks, I didn't investigate too much. The backplate always fit strangely with that block for me though. It was a B-Stock block that had 3090 branding on it, so maybe that had something to do with it.Any particular problems with it? I have that block also, but don't have the card yet.
PCIe bracket and the backplate from Bykski didn't fit on mine. I'm using the original ones instead. Bykski constantly revises their blocks, there is a chance that those problems are fixed in newer revisions. I bought mine in November.Any particular problems with it? I have that block also, but don't have the card yet.
i had asked the question to @WinterCharm some time ago, the thickness should not exceed 3mm, it is specified on the site of Winterone -> here
3mm is from before the update to the central spine, to prevent a tall backplate from interfering with the riser cable. Now there's a shallow channel on one side of the spine, giving you another 2mm of clearance by allowing the riser cable to move out of the way. Ofc, at this point your backplate will be touching the spine, but it should be okay.
All those clearances listed on the website have 0.5-1mm of padding to ensure compatibility with tolerances expected of those parts. That's done on purpose, and is the main reason everything fits well. The issue with reporting everything down to the last 0.01 mm is with all tolerances added up in a 3D space, I may be 0.5mm short, and your part may be 0.5mm larger than its tolerances... and now a part you planned is 1mm too big.
That's why there's a teeny tiny safety factor around various dimensions.
Does this mean that kickstarter silver backers will also be pushed to the end of 2021? Oh boi, hopefully high end parts are more available by then
Very reasonable price for a Gen 4 upgrade.
After a few days of using the PC I have to say I continue to be impressed with the thermal performance of the case. The most notable effects were on the 3090 FE I have installed. Some measurements I've noted:
3090 in nr200, no thermal pad mod - Memory temps 108C (ouch) in 5 minutes of heavy load
3090 in nr200, thermal pad mod - Memory temps 98C in 2 hours of heavy load
3090 in W1, thermal pad mod - Memory temps 86C in 2 hours of heavy load
Pretty impressive feat for sure!
Sorry if this has been answered before, but will the black version be available in Batch 2??
Any idea when black will be available again?
After a night of reading and searching and seeing how much work went into this case, any chance the power button would be sold separately? I've been wanting to try this type of power button.
Speaking of power buttons. Did anyone else have the wires come off on their power button? Not a big deal, I just soldered it back on, but it seems like it may be a good idea to put some heat shrink around that solder joint in the future. At least that is what I did with mine. Maybe I was a bit too rough with it
I figured it would be a long shot and low on the priority list. I'm aware of what it is. I'm tinkering with external power switch box or attaching it to a vertical stand mod that would support the bracket. I wanted to try this circular key cap instead of a square r4.
Yeah, I think it got torn off when I was putting it in/removing it repeatedly while building/planning the loop. I did read that too and tried to be careful while pulling it out of the packaging. Which, by the way, is fantastic. The presentation is so good.
He completely ignored the actual selling point of the case beyond the volume and part compatibility
Honestly I think the lower price will go over better with the wider community and will serve the case and company better in the long run - but the initial 6-12 month wait won't be well-received by the smaller community that was planning on getting one ASAP. (See Meshlicious Delays)
It really ends up being: which do you think that you and your customers would rather swallow? There will be those that are disappointed either way.
Personally I think that even for a very well-made case like the Winter One, $449 US + $45 is a hard thing to justify unless they're building the absolute best PC money can buy in it, and in that case, you're limiting yourself to a smaller section of the market, too. $379 opens that up to more people and helps reduce the sticker shock for the rest of the market.
TL;DR: My vote is on delaying and reducing the price.
I think the case has been received very well, the general consensus seems to be amazing building quality and unmatched cooling at the volume. The price might put a few people off, but if you're water cooling, it's basically the combined price of good CPU and GPU blocks, a pump (or combo) and some fittings. I honestly think one of the issues is that the silver is the only color available in batch 2. I think overall, the black color would make up the majority of sales if both colors were sold at the same time. I for one was ready to purchase immediately until I saw that only silver was available. Overall though, I believe people would pay the $70 premium to receive it sooner as opposed to next year.
Keep up the great work Fouzan, you've done great for the community!
A personal question though, the sale of the perforated panels and other parts would be delayed to 2022 as well? What about the development of SPK?
I’ve kept up with this case’s development since the thread first started, and came close to (but ultimately passed on) backing the Kickstarter. The SPK is a big draw for me but I know that’s a ways away if it happens, and I wasn’t comfortable being an early adopter for a case at that price point. As cases start to get into people’s hands, I’m more seriously considering picking one up…until I start to do the math. A full water cooling setup seems like it’d run at least $600, plus the case. Even if the chassis were $300, I don’t think I’d pull the trigger. For an air cooled setup I’d need the performance panels which I don’t like aesthetically, and the case doesn’t feel worth the price if I’m not using the primary feature of 2x240-280 rads.
This is all to say that I’m price conscious, and it’s stopping me from buying the Winter One, but not because of an extra $70. It’s hard for me to picture the person who is happy to drop that much on a water cooling setup but not willing to eat an extra $70 to have the case in hand 6-12 months sooner. The general reception might have felt nicer if the list price was $379, but I wouldn’t be confident that would necessarily convert to sales. Your case is decidedly premium, and serves a decidedly different market from those (like me!) who buy e.g. NR200’s
I also think offering a PCIE 4 riser option might be something to look into. I wonder if supply for those will improve throughout this year. I have no insight into this on the manufacturing side of course.
Agree with this, this was the most common comment I've seen on reddit with regards to the price "for that price, a Gen 4 cable should be included." Not a deal breaker for most, but I think there's an expectation level from the community to have one included these days, especially with the Meshlicious, Dan Case A4, and Ghost/Raw S1 having them available and soon to come from Sliger.
My recommendation would be to launch it. Get some enthusiast builds out there and then lower the price when you can and try to increase sales volume. You could make the announcement that a price drop is coming in future production runs (when material pricing and the general world economy gets back to normal) so anyone that is price sensitive can wait for that to happen and anyone that wants to get their PC built in this super sweet high end case can proceed. The high end PC builds that will go into this and get posted on forums like this will be way better advertisement than that clown car review the LTT did.
I have a preorder in for the 2nd batch already and while the price is high, to me the extra $70 in a full cost of a new PC build (especially with GPU prices now days) is almost invisible. I personally have no interest in waiting another 6-12 months. If you kicked delivery out that long I would likely be writing you asking to cancel my order and I'll go another direction for my current project.
All of that said, no matter the decision I think you aren't ever going to be able to make everyone happy so do what you believe to be best for your business.
I'm of the opinion that lower prices would definitely help BUT I would suggest to do that for Batch 3. Keep Batch 2 as it is so the people who demand this case now (i.e. willing and able to afford the premium) can get it now. Those who are willing to get the case but not for the premium can get it 6-12 months time in Batch 3. You can not please everybody but this would please the most people.
If there's going to be a price reduction, I think that it would need to be more substantial (at least down to $350). I agree with the sentiment here: there's plenty of us willing to pay a premium to have a case now, but for the project's longevity, it'd be best to reach a wider crowd. I think people also would be understanding of a future price decrease due to materials cost, as long as that statement (material cost) is front and center. Finally, if there is going to be a delay, definitely include a (certified!!) Gen 4 cable (also please when that happens let those of us who backed on Kickstarter buy one too). If it's not in the manual or on the website already, having a statement about the Gen 3 cable might be a good idea.
I'm not worried about the communication/messaging with how the project has gone so far though. It's been absolutely perfect. Can't wait to get mine in person!
Yeah agreed there. It would potentially be a good idea IF it does go ahead, that they announce it in conjunction with the OT review if that's still on the cards.
How about a poll for the remaining backers? It'd be interesting statistics. For me I'd like to have the case earlier, even though I have no immediate plans to build due to pc parts price skyrocketing.
Meanwhile, I really liked the Linus video. It's entertainment, he praises/is obviously impressed with the case, and yeah, he obviously has a hard time with water cooling in the case but there's _plenty_ of stuff in there that'll help me when my case finally arrives/lessons that could be applied in the manual (eg. fitting the attachments to the rads *before* putting them in the case, instead of trying to squeeze your fingers around the tight fit). I thought it was genuinely useful and informative, and I actively took notes on where he had problems so that I don't when it's my turn. Also, on a personal note: I've been waiting for _someone_ to try a Barrow in it first, and I'm stoked he did _and_ it works; the rest of my gear is too big to fit a D5/reservoir/etc. on the other side.
As to the pricing, it's obviously high, but it's a batch-produced niche product. People usually respond well to being informed of the costs and the reasoning for the high price; Linus waving around the slabs of metal shows just how much more the materials on this must cost than the materials on competitive cases.
I'd suggest pricing/selling like the Niche Zero (), a product in a different market that nonetheless has a similar profile: boutique, batch-produced, has a dedicated customer base. They communicate about the reasons for prices rises/drops. I'd suggest just making it clear on your website that the majority of that cost is covering materials, which are highly priced right now due to the ongoing pandemic/ramifications from Suez Canal/whatever, and that you hope for a price floor of $380 in a year but will continue to sell batches of the product for those who want it in the interim at the higher price. People can make an informed decision and go from there.
There genuinely is nothing else in the market like this: genuinely SFF and supporting 2x280mm radiators. Small, silent and with excellent thermal performance. Personally, I'd waited years for something like this to exist and hit the kickstarter as soon as it did, and I'm really looking forward to it turning up.
@WinterCharm, I agree with the sentiments of frio and others who have said that what you are selling is a boutique, niche product, and therefore I think the price is reasonable. Given the issues re: PCI-E Gen 3 risers that have been highlighted over the past few months, I also agree with others in that it would be worth investigating the possibility of including a Gen 4 riser.
Also while I'm here:
Seriously, who thinks about accidentally tainting a review because they wrote a nice letter? I mean we all knew the attention to detail in the project was insane, but that's a whole other level. Massive props.
As to the Gen 3/4 deal, see the explanation about certification. Methinks this needs to be in the front post, on the website, maybe in the manual too.
Also yeah I think that LTT video has solidified in my mind that they are an entertainment channel now. I would've liked a more professional treatment, but the people who end up coming this way will see the professionalism immediately anyways. I'd love to see what OT, Hardware Canucks, etc. could do with it, even if we all know OT will gripe unnecessarily about the cable.
Echoing comments on here really, the lengths, passion and effort gone into making this case the work of art and engineering that it is is not lost on anyone who is actively looking for such a thing.
If you've gained the trust of professionals who have entrusted the Winter One to contain the source of their livelihood (which a fair few people I've seen with high end builds, plus the firm that ordered many units that Fouzan mentioned previously have genuinely done) and also reached the people who don't balk at the cost of a 3090, 5950x or Optimus water blocks, then you're already on the right path.
Talking about the price alone is doing the herculean effort and amazing results that Fouzan and Rayyan have achieved a disservice IMO. The transparency and honesty we've come to admire from Fouzan should be bought to the fore, and the tolerances, quality, small details and reasoning behind choices should be prominently mentioned so that even the most room temperature IQ Reddit Gremlin has cause to hit pause before using the collective braincell.
Just my personal experience, but the backplate on my Bykski 3080 FE block did not fit quite right. I was planning on replacing that block though, so no sweat for me.
This looks like an amazing case, and I'd love to get it for a 2x280mm custom loop build.
Are there any news on the tempered glass side panel? I understand it's an idea/planned, but is there any sort of rough timeline? Also, if I were to get the case now (batch 2), is there a possibility such a side panel could be bought separately and retrofitted?
Oh and on the price thing: I've gotta be honest, to me, there's no big difference in "sticker shock" (i've seen this mentioned somewhere) between $379 and $449.. For "normal" builders, a good case is like 100 bucks, 150-200 if you go premium. Close to 400 seems unthinkable, especially when it's a small, unassuming case like this. I'm not saying it isn't justified, just that most people won't see the value in a case like this imho.
Personally, I'd much rather get the case earlier, even if it costs more. Sitting in agony waiting on PC parts can be a lot worse than paying some 70$, I can tell you this from experience
Mine is ~6mm from the bottom of the measured screw post to the top of the backplate. The screw post is ~3mmOut of curiosity, could you take a measurement of the thickness of the Bykski backplate thickness? I have not been able to find it anywhere, and wanted to know.