Discussion Windows 11 Freezes &/or Restarts

[Jp42nca]

Just completed my itx build. I am a creator/photo editor/real estate photographer and this is going to be my work pc. Its been up and running for about a week now. Slowly been transferring files from my older build to the new build, Lr, Ps, etc... As long as I stay offline everything is working just fine, but as soon as I go on line I have issues. I can have 1 or 2 tabs open surfing the web then when I go to perform a task such as signing out of Amazon or opening up another tab my screen freezes up, can't even move my mouse pointer. Most times after a few moments it restarts & I have to sign back in, other times I have to unplug my pc and repower. Everything is up to date (Chrome, Windows 11, & my GPU Studio Driver) and like I said it only happens when on line. I've been transferring files, presets in Lr, actions in Ps, and cleaning out old unwanted files, pc is on for 4-5 hrs with no issue until I go online, I use Chrome as my web browser. I read that it happens in Edge as well but I don't use Edge.

My temps are good, at idle 28C, when under load, heavy Ps editing with multiple layers (4-5 images) temps run 55C, as soon as I finish and merge files and save back into Lr temps drop down to idle temps. I did a clean brand new Windows 11 Home installation, (not a Windows 10 update), via usb, purchased from NewEgg. Was not a copy, all components are new.

New PC Specs:
ASUS B660i
i7-12700k unlocked
EVGA GeForce GTX 1650 Super
OS Windows 11 Home
Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR5 64GB 5200mhz
Corsair H100i Elite AIO
Corsair PSU SF750
'C' Drive Samsung 980 SSD 1TB PCIe 4.0 NVME M.2


I use Microsoft OneDrive so I contacted them looking for help. I find it funny that they make me check all the boxes with cars in it so they don't talk to a robot then the want me to talk to a robot (AI at times seems worthless). During the chat I just picked up on things that made me think it just didn't understand. Told me I needed to do a Windows 11 In-Place upgrade to fix the issue. I googled it and saw on line posts with similar issues, saw some videos on youtube and it seems to be a re-install of Windows 11. Is it or is there something new added to it?

I question this fix because why is this not just incorporated into the Windows 11 updates that your pc asks you to perform, just doesn't make sense to me. Why are they calling it an In-Place upgrade instead of telling me to re-install Windows 11? Most were issues that people were experiencing doing a Windows 10 update to Windows 11. Remember this was a clean brand new Windows 11 Home installation & my ASUS B660i is Windows 10 & 11 compatible.

Is anyone having the same problem? If so what did you do to correct? If you did do the Windows 11 In-Place upgrade did it work? As of now I have to surf the web and create this post on my older pc in fear that I'll never be able to finish the post using the new one before it freezes up. So in short, using the old one for the web & using the new one for photo editing.

Just not sure if Mr. Robot from Microsoft has the right answer or not. Sure would like some help here. Thanks for reading.

 

[HWI]

Have you checked for network driver updates? You can use Asus Armoury Crate or download them from the motherboard product page. Just be aware that the wired and wireless use separate drivers, so be sure you don't only update one of them.

 

[DASBOOT]

I would not have used Home. I might behoove you now that it is activated with hardware activation to download the latest iso for MS direct then check the hash for the downloaded iso and then clean install using Rufus to make you flash. Then for sure DO NOT USE INTEL RAPID STORAGE AND MAKE SURE IT IS OFF IN BIOS! Make sure your Nvidia driver is clean and installed from a download direct, not a driver cache install from MS. I would make sure the onboard video is disabled and the onboard video driver from Intel is not installed. I would then download the trial of CCleaner Pro time out in 15 days, and use it to do your driver updates. It will revert to free after the trial period. Clean the registry and remove all APP's (not executables) from the OS that are not being used. Make sure Armoury is up to date as noted above. Edge has the same browser engine as Chrome, but Chrome is a major telemetry HOG. Are you using Hard-Wire Ethernet or wireless? Note Asus screws with Intel's drivers and there is also Lan guard involved, but I do not believe the drivers are custom in that the Intel drivers which are the latest would not work better. CCleaner Pro or Intel Driver Updater can give you the latest. Use HWinfo64 and make sure temps and voltages are reasonable.
Finally, Intel's 12th gen's Processor retention holder is a piece of crap and can cause intermittent problems because it bends the processor and the board. Thermal Grizzly's processor contact frame is the only good fix for problems if installed correctly.

 

[Jp42nca]

Have you checked for network driver updates? You can use Asus Armoury Crate or download them from the motherboard product page. Just be aware that the wired and wireless use separate drivers, so be sure you don't only update one of them.

Thanks for reading my post. Have not tried Armoury Create as yet, that was my next move. Good info about the wired vs wireless. I'll look into that. I'm techy to a point but at times advice comes from others who are more experienced & I'm at a loss trying to follow through with what I need to do on my end and in the order in which the tasks need to be performed, afraid I'll really screw something up. I must have done something right because as of now the problem hasn't presented itself, of course day ain't over.

I would love to dive into all topics/troubleshooting related pc but find myself at a loss. Wish I knew someone who was in my area where we could sit down side by side and work through things so I could have a better understanding, very frustrating. I learn from other posts & YT videos.

I've had another issue right from the start with iCUE, it shows 3 temps on my board that are high. I contacted Corsair and they said I need to contact ASUS. When I contacted ASUS tech support the guy said this is normal, I've been using the pc since mid January and no problems transferring files, adding new programs, etc...Lr & Ps work great, nothing out of the ordinary, all seems to be working fine except when on line. And it doesn't happen all the time its sporadic. I can use Lr & Ps all day with no issue shutting down or freezing up.

I was hoping to add a screenshot of iCUE on this post but when I click insert image it doesn't allow me to do that. I tried to get into my bios yesterday and I cannot access it., tried mutiple times, that's new. I might have some bad sensors on the board causing the issue from what I've read from other posts. The case doesn't seem hot and airflow out of the case remains cool. Even the board remains cool to the touch. These temps are present as soon as I turn on the pc in the morning after being off for 10 hrs. I would think at start up it would be very low temps then start to heat up after 30 mins or so. That's why I'm wondering if its a bad sensor. I downloaded Open Hardware Monitor, it didn't show any temps close to what iCUE is showing me. Then again it gave me only 6 temps reading and not 17 iCUE shows. The high temps in iCUE are Temp#5 115C, Temp#8 115C, & Temp#10 82C. The other 14 are between 30C & 20C.

I plan to contact ASUS tech support today for more help. The last time I contacted them the person on the line was hard to understand & not sure if he understood, there was a communication issue and I feel some things were lost in translation.

 

[Jp42nca]

I would not have used Home. I might behoove you now that it is activated with hardware activation to download the latest iso for MS direct then check the hash for the downloaded iso and then clean install using Rufus to make you flash. Then for sure DO NOT USE INTEL RAPID STORAGE AND MAKE SURE IT IS OFF IN BIOS! Make sure your Nvidia driver is clean and installed from a download direct, not a driver cache install from MS. I would make sure the onboard video is disabled and the onboard video driver from Intel is not installed. I would then download the trial of CCleaner Pro time out in 15 days, and use it to do your driver updates. It will revert to free after the trial period. Clean the registry and remove all APP's (not executables) from the OS that are not being used. Make sure Armoury is up to date as noted above. Edge has the same browser engine as Chrome, but Chrome is a major telemetry HOG. Are you using Hard-Wire Ethernet or wireless? Note Asus screws with Intel's drivers and there is also Lan guard involved, but I do not believe the drivers are custom in that the Intel drivers which are the latest would not work better. CCleaner Pro or Intel Driver Updater can give you the latest. Use HWinfo64 and make sure temps and voltages are reasonable.
Finally, Intel's 12th gen's Processor retention holder is a piece of crap and can cause intermittent problems because it bends the processor and the board. Thermal Grizzly's processor contact frame is the only good fix for problems if installed correctly.

Thanks for reading my post & your advice, I do appreciate your knowledge & expertise. I would love to dive into all topics/troubleshooting related pc but find myself at a loss. Wish I knew someone who was in my area where we could sit down side by side and work through things so I could have a better understanding, very frustrating. I learn from other posts & YT videos. The good news is I must have done something right because as of now the problem hasn't presented itself, of course day ain't over right!

I'm techy to a point but at times advice comes from someone like yourself who is way more advanced then I am, when it comes to this stuff its overwhelming and I'm at a disadvantage. So I have no doubt that you have the expertise to trouble shoot this I don't have the expertise to follow through with all that you explained, but appreciate your help. My next move is to download Armoury Create. There is a label next to the ram slots indicating what version I have. I went to ASUS website and I do need to update, not that far behind. Just one. But first there is a download that needs to be performed before I can update to the latest version. It's not a bios update its something else that needs to be installed to perform the update, just can't remember the what its called. Never done that before so I'm concerned that I'll do something incorrect, will contact ASUS first. I guess if I install Armoury Create it'll do that for me. Before that I need to watch a few videos to understand how Armoury Create operates and how to use it. From videos I've watched some say don't update your bios unless you have to, it should probably work just fine, I get conflicting points of views that make it difficult to make a right decision, of course guess you have no choice if there's a problem.

As for the CPU issue I did purchase that plate and installed it during the build, found this out after purchases were made. I thought I made a good choice on the cpu and Windows 11 Home version. I'm used to Windows 10 and comfortable with it but went with Windows 11. At present I have one editing pc with 10 the other with 11. I read a lot and watched countless videos on cpu's, guess we don't always make the best choices no matter how much we research a topic. Just have to live with it. I've built 2 photo editing pc's since 2015 and never had any issues. Built a pc for my wife a couple years ago who uses it for work, she is a realtor and again no issues. This one is giving me a headache for sure.

The GPU studio driver download was direct from Nvidia website going through the GeForce Experience that I have downloaded, so feel comfortable with that. And it is working during multiple images blended in Ps. I disconnected the gpu to see the difference and there was lagging and image break up when zooming in/out as with brush movements were jerky. The GPU was very smooth and fluid.

I've had another issue right from the start with iCUE, it shows 3 temps on my board that are high. I contacted Corsair and they said I need to contact ASUS. When I contacted ASUS tech support the guy said this is normal, I've been using the pc since mid January and no problems transferring files, adding new programs, etc...Lr & Ps work great, nothing out of the ordinary, all seems to be working fine except when on line. And it doesn't happen all the time its sporadic. I can use Lr & Ps all day with no issue shutting down or freezing up.

I was hoping to add a screenshot of iCUE on this post but when I click insert image it doesn't allow me to do that. I tried to get into my bios yesterday and I cannot access it., tried mutiple times, that's new. I might have some bad sensors on the board causing the high temp issue from what I've read from other posts. The case doesn't seem hot and airflow out of the case remains cool. Even the board remains cool to the touch. These temps are present as soon as I turn on the pc in the morning after being off for 10 hrs. I would think at start up it would be very low temps then start to heat up after 30 mins or so. That's why I'm wondering if its a bad sensor. I downloaded Open Hardware Monitor, it didn't show any temps close to what iCUE is showing me. Then again it gave me only 6 temps reading and not 17 iCUE shows. The high temps in iCUE are Temp#5 @115C, Temp#8 @115C, & Temp#10 @82C. The other 14 are between 30C & 20C.

I plan to contact ASUS tech support today for more help. The last time I contacted them the person on the line was hard to understand & not sure if he understood, there was a communication issue and I feel some things were lost in translation.

 

[Jp42nca]

HWI & DASBOOT...Just a follow up. I did get access to my bios through Windows and System Recovery this morning. The motherboard temp is 31C. I exited then went to make this post and my pc froze again. Did not restart, had to hold down the power button and restart. So problem still exists.

 

[DASBOOT]

First, at the Bios level, the processor runs unrestricted, it does not back off when the load to it is decreased (ie Intel SpeedStep does not work at the bios level). Most of the time Cpu Fan and or pump rpm is at max, i.e. Max setting in the Bios if the Fan/Pump control is turned on. Checking temps here is not indicative of real-life use. 31C is ok at this level. There are sensors on the board that should NOT be monitored and give false readings these do not show in the bios but are present in software monitoring applications such as HWinfo 64. (HWinfo64) The letters stand for (Hardware Information 64 bit) Individual component temps such as your Samsung drive and your GPU are critical as they produce heat in a small form factor case in addition to ram chips and the Cpu which is being cooled by water/really propylene glycol in your case. If it is not crashing at the bios level, it most likely is not a defective piece of hardware, but more likely a driver issue.
If you are not willing to start over clean, you should boot into safe mode (instructions to enter safe mode) try it without networking first, and see if it is stable. Then safe mode with networking, if it crashes it is networking that is the problem. Remember all drivers that are not necessary for booting are disabled in safe mode. [other than the network toggle]
Finally, if too low an rpm is set for Bios board monitoring for a Pump or CPU fan as a minimum, for warning or shutdown, and if that value is not met at the post to desktop, a machine will shut down as a safety precaution. (What is your pump rpm at post?)

 

[Jp42nca]

First, at the Bios level, the processor runs unrestricted, it does not back off when the load to it is decreased (ie Intel SpeedStep does not work at the bios level). Most of the time Cpu Fan and or pump rpm is at max, i.e. Max setting in the Bios if the Fan/Pump control is turned on. Checking temps here is not indicative of real-life use. 31C is ok at this level. There are sensors on the board that should NOT be monitored and give false readings these do not show in the bios but are present in software monitoring applications such as HWinfo 64. (HWinfo64) The letters stand for (Hardware Information 64 bit) Individual component temps such as your Samsung drive and your GPU are critical as they produce heat in a small form factor case in addition to ram chips and the Cpu which is being cooled by water/really propylene glycol in your case. If it is not crashing at the bios level, it most likely is not a defective piece of hardware, but more likely a driver issue.
If you are not willing to start over clean, you should boot into safe mode (instructions to enter safe mode) try it without networking first, and see if it is stable. Then safe mode with networking, if it crashes it is networking that is the problem. Remember all drivers that are not necessary for booting are disabled in safe mode. [other than the network toggle]
Finally, if too low an rpm is set for Bios board monitoring for a Pump or CPU fan as a minimum, for warning or shutdown, and if that value is not met at the post to desktop, a machine will shut down as a safety precaution. (What is your pump rpm at post)

First let me start with the Tech Support person I got this morning at ASUS. They seem to think its a motherboard issue after all the explaining I did. Kinda felt it was a stock reply as to not be on the phone to long. Right from the start I never thought it was a board problem, however those 3 high temps did peek my curiosity as to what they are, but I did check the temps with that other monitoring software (Open Hardware Monitoring) compared it to iCUE and the 6 temps it read all were good. I mentioned the 3 high temps in iCUE monitoring and they said its not normal and to send in for repair or replacement. I asked why so many 17 temp readings and he changed the subject. Didn't get that warn fuzzy feeling after that.

I did download HWinfo64 & all temps seems to look ok. There is one thing I want to point out about the Performance Core vs Efficiency Cores, not sure exactly what it means, will do my best. Scrolling down under CPU [#0] Intel Core i7-12700k: DTS, Core Temperatures are 22C, P-core 0 thru P-core 7 are 22C or 23C, Next are E-core 8 thru E-core 11 are 22C or 23C. But next is another tab, the Core Distance to TjMAX, it says 78C, all the cores from P-core 0 to P-core 7 & E-core 8 thru E-core 11 are between 76C & 81C. Under that is the CPU Package at 24C. The only other temps that seem a bit high under the tab: S.M.A.R.T: Samsung SSD PRO 1TB, Drive Temperature is 50C, Drive Temperature 2 is 50C, Drive temp 3 is 50C. As for Drive Failure says NO. On this board the 2 MVNe's are back to back on the itx board, I think that's why its a bit warm, just my thoughts. I shut down my pc to get into the bios for the pump rpm you requested. The FAN RPM Post says 2445 RPM's, the CPU FAN-QFan Control tab, CPU FAN, CHA FAN, AIO PUMP all in Auto Detect, maybe I should put it in PWM? The CPU FAN & CHA FAN is set to 60% to 30C then increases to 100% at 70C. The AIO PUMP is at 100% 0-100C. Also when I was restarted I received a notification that said Intel Graphics Command Center has just been installed. And it prompted me to Accept the licensing, just ignored it & X'd out, have enough issues I'm dealing with. Just to mention I went back to basic troubling shooting skills and removed the GPU from the pc after speaking with ASUS. Maybe there is a issue with it. I'm surprised this pc hasn't crashed it should have by now. Think I'll use it like this for a day or so & see what happens then do the Safe Mode you suggested. I did change the GPU driver to a Studio driver, maybe that's the issue. Your thoughts... The texts might seem off, I hit a key not sure which one and it went askew.

 

[DASBOOT]

50c at Samsung is extremely high. This is not uncommon on ITX and you really cannot put a heatpipe cooler on it easily. Such as this: Acidalie note this dropped my G5 PC Z390 drives to 29C while in use.
Here is a screenprint of my work MSI Z490 board ATX: Win 11 drive (1 TB) is 41C , Ventura drive is 38C, storage drive is 29C with factory heatsinks
which are CRAP! 50 is 9 degrees celsius higher... storage drive below does not get much use.

 

[msystems]

S.M.A.R.T: Samsung SSD PRO 1TB, Drive Temperature is 50C, Drive Temperature 2 is 50C, Drive temp 3 is 50C.

Was this at idle or while running a work load?

Open HWinfo first and do a test work load for a while until it starts locking up and check the maximum temperature that the Drive reached. 50C is hot, but it's not supposed to throttle until 70 or 75

If it is throttling & you want an easy way to drop temps on it, you can set the drive speed to Gen 3.0 until you figure out a heatsink.

 

[Jp42nca]

50c at Samsung is extremely high. This is not uncommon on ITX and you really cannot put a heatpipe cooler on it easily. Such as this: Acidalie note this dropped my G5 PC Z390 drives to 29C while in use.
Here is a screenprint of my work MSI Z490 board ATX: Win 11 drive (1 TB) is 41C , Ventura drive is 38C, storage drive is 29C with factory heatsinks
which are CRAP! 50 is 9 degrees celsius higher... storage drive below does not get much use.

Yeah I've read that temps can be higher when a ssd is sandwiched between 2 pieces of plastic with thermal pads on either side. Not sure if there is enough room for the Acidalie, it pretty tight on this itx board. Need to take some measurement and hope for the best. If not that one maybe another.

But this will only help 1 of the issues I'm having, I don't think this would freeze my pc, do you? I'm in agree with you that its a driver issue, but which one. I'm going to use the pc without the gpu for a bit and see what happens. Then try the safe mode and go from there. Maybe there is just to much heat right at that location with the cpu, m.2, & gpu all come together. If the screen doesn't freeze I guess its the GPU or the driver for the GPU. If it seems ok then maybe the next step is to back track and use the gaming driver before I installed the Studio driver. I used it for a bit and it didn't freeze up but then again I wasn't on line as much. Only happens when I am on line. I typed that long response and it didn't happen at all. Only happens when you start clicking from tab to tab.

What did you think about the fan speeds? Any thoughts on those 3 high temp readings in iCUE? Still perplexed as to why so high. It shows up on iCUE but not on HWiNFO64? Just trying to make sense of this.

On another note how did you insert your screenshot? I tried to do that and it wants me to enter a web address. What am I doing wrong? I clicked the correct icon. I screenshot the whole summary for you & couldn't send. Is there something in the settings? I've looked and couldn't find anything.

 

[Jp42nca]

Was this at idle or while running a work load?

Open HWinfo first and do a test work load for a while until it starts locking up and check the maximum temperature that the Drive reached. 50C is hot, but it's not supposed to throttle until 70 or 75

If it is throttling & you want an easy way to drop temps on it, you can set the drive speed to Gen 3.0 until you figure out a heatsink.

Thanks for that info. It seems to happen only when I'm on line and clicking multiple sites (not much load there) and doesn't happen when I'm working off line. I put more workload with multiple images in PS blending colors, etc...My wife is a realtor and I work with her. I'm on the MLS looking at listings, City websites for permits and other property related issues, photo editing Lr & Ps, creating postcards, my gmail, etc... Just clicking around after a short period of time it freezes up, and again only when on line.

I will open HWinfo and when it freezes I can see what temps I'm getting. As for setting the drive speed to Gen 3.0 where would I go to do that. My technical expertise goes just so far.

 

[msystems]

There is a column in HWinfo sensor screen that says "Maximum" so you can just check if this value ever approached 70C. If it didn't then it's probably not the issue, these drives are designed to run this hot.

PCI link speed settings are found in the bios, probably similar to this image but you should confirm

 

[DASBOOT]

For images, you must have a hosting service or a free hosting service, as images cannot be pasted directly into a post. Most cheapee's use imgur. I have a Photobucket account. I you have a website you can use that.

 

[DASBOOT]

You have processor graphics so you could test by uninstalling GPU and driver and use that, but even more load and heat on the processor. Intel® UHD Graphics 770

 

[Jp42nca]

There is a column in HWinfo sensor screen that says "Maximum" so you can just check if this value ever approached 70C. If it didn't then it's probably not the issue, these drives are designed to run this hot.

PCI link speed settings are found in the bios, probably similar to this image but you should confirm

Your advice has been very helpful. I plan to make a few changes in my case layout for more airflow. Then add a heat sink on my M.2 as per DASBOOT's advise. After reviewing everything and taking the advise from others more knowledgeable then myself I believe it is a heat problem and not a driver issue. I'll reconfigure this weekend (hopefully I'll have enough free time), purchase a M.2 heat sink, then take it from there. There are quite a few sensors on this board & there is a lot of heat generated in a central location, hence the 3 high temp reading I'm getting in iCUE. HWinfo is a great tool & plan on using it more moving forward. Thanks for your help.

 

[Jp42nca]

For images, you must have a hosting service or a free hosting service, as images cannot be pasted directly into a post. Most cheapee's use imgur. I have a Photobucket account. I you have a website you can use that.

Well....that explains it. Thanks.

 

[Jp42nca]

You have processor graphics so you could test by uninstalling GPU and driver and use that, but even more load and heat on the processor. Intel® UHD Graphics 770

I appreciate your help. After much thought I've decided to rethink my case layout & fan placements, I want more airflow & purchase that heatsink per your advise for my M.2. Plan to start this weekend schedule permitting. Once completed I'll start diving into the gpu driver issue, one step at a time. Start with no gpu, uninstall driver then take it from there. If all works then add the gpu & if it starts freezing again do the safe mode per your advise to help trouble shoot. I know iCUE isn't the best monitoring system however it did show 3 high temps on the board, HWinfo is a great tool showing quite a bit of info so plan to use that moving forward. There is a lot going on in a small area on a itx board, I need to rethink the fan/radiator placement to dissipate the heat more. I might even take out the M.2 on the backside of the board.

Thanks again for your advise, it is much appreciated.

 

[Jp42nca]

I appreciate your help. After much thought I've decided to rethink my case layout & fan placements, I want more airflow & purchase that heatsink per your advise for my M.2. Plan to start this weekend schedule permitting. Once completed I'll start diving into the gpu driver issue, one step at a time. Start with no gpu, uninstall driver then take it from there. If all works then add the gpu & if it starts freezing again do the safe mode per your advise to help trouble shoot. I know iCUE isn't the best monitoring system however it did show 3 high temps on the board, HWinfo is a great tool showing quite a bit of info so plan to use that moving forward. There is a lot going on in a small area on a itx board, I need to rethink the fan/radiator placement to dissipate the heat more. I might even take out the M.2 on the backside of the board.

Thanks again for your advise, it is much appreciated.

Just want to follow up on the Freeze screen issue. It was not a driver it was heat all along, and to be honest I'm the one who created it. I feel so stupid cause I missed the obvious. The only explanation I can come up with as to why it only happened when surfing the web is because it was performing to many tasks at once with multiple window tabs open and it wasn't tasking it enough when blending images in Ps, and btw didn't do it for long period of time, if I did it probably would have showed up. I only used Ps and not Lr & Ps as I would in my normal workflow, I do believe that would have tasked my gpu and the freeze would have occurred. What I did was copy the same fan curve on my other pc's gpu because it worked just fine on that pc, but wouldn't work on the new one because the gpu is smaller to fit an itx case and 2 fan's are smaller as well. It just wasn't creating enough cooling power. I created a more aggressive curve & haven't had a problem since. It's been up and running hard this entire week without an issue. I have HWiNFO64 come on at start up and have my temps on my taskbar tray so I can monitor temps at a glance. I can't believe I missed the obvious, live and learn. I won't be making that mistake again.

 

[Jp42nca]

Have you checked for network driver updates? You can use Asus Armoury Crate or download them from the motherboard product page. Just be aware that the wired and wireless use separate drivers, so be sure you don't only update one of them.

Sorry for not responding sooner, I've been out of town and just returned this morning. Thanks for your insight. I installed Armoury Crate a few months ago and it messed up my pc, iCUE didn't work properly & had other issues, can't remember exactly since its been awhile but I uninstalled it & everything was good again. I did read something or saw a video on YT that said it can give you problems. I realize everyone has their own views & not the same across the board however I thought that since I had iCUE installed as well there might have been a protocol issue. I just uninstalled & issues I had at that time went away. I will look into the drivers, but if you've been following my posts with DASBOOT I did fix the issue I was having. I just did a pc recovery and went back 8 days, then reinstalled iCUE & did Windows 11 updates & all has been working fine. There might be some left over garbage/fragments to remove and I will look into that this week once I have time. Like I said just got home this morning and trying to play catch up. Thanks for responding.